Saying of mother theresa

[Reformed1]

Again I ask are you a parent? If you are do you treat each of your children the same. No of course not. One child might need more cuddling and comfort will the other might just need an encouraging word. Now does that mean that you love the one who gets cuddled more than the one who gets the talk? No you love them the same, you just know that they are different and need to be treated as such. God gives what He knows we each need. No more or no less. But He still loves us all equally.

This argument is being to remind me of my little ones. “Mom loves me more! NO she loves me more! Well, she held me longer today. Mom tell him you love me more”

Do you see what I am saying.

Even if you love all your children the same (I’m not sure what that exactly means) do you not favor one over the other? I would bet I could as your friends which of your children you favor and I bet they would be able to pick the one you tend to favor over the
other(s). So where does that leave you?

 

[st_lucy]

I may have missed it but did you comment on the scripture where God says he hated Esau but loved Jacob?

Also, my second post in this thread stated that we are not all equal before God. God clearly favors some with more grace and give less grace to others. Do you agree with this statement?

I have not commented because you have chosen to read the verse out of context. Read now to verse 14-18. In my study bible it states “The principle of divine election does not invite Christians to theoretical inquiry concerning the non elected, nor does this principle mean that God is unfair in His dealings with humanity. The instruction concerning divine election is a part of the gospel and reveals that the gift of faith is the enactment of God’s mercy (16). The basic biblical principle is those who will not see or hear shall not see or hear. On the other hand, the same God who thus makes stubborn or hardens the heart can reconstruct it through the work of the Holy Spirit.”

You see God gives the gifts He decides we need. You see this shows that He does love each of His children uniquely but equally.

 

[MrS]

If God imparts his grace as he will in varying kind an measure does He not than, by grace, favor some over others?

If you look at it that way (degrees of favor), you miss out on God’s Mercy and/or benevolence.

As an analogy… if you have children, and

you give one child more food than another (perhaps because he/she plays sports and requires more food) or

you give one child a bigger bed perhaps because he/she is now 6’9" tall or

you give one child more responsibilites around the house because he/she is capable of those extra requirements…

you still love them equally and are not “favoring” them one over another.

God gives each of us all that we “need” to love and serve him. What we do with these talents (think of the parable of the 3 servants given talents by God), is then up to us… equally.

Thank God that God is God.

.

 

[MrS]

Even if you love all your children the same (I’m not sure what that exactly means) do you not favor one over the other? I would bet I could as your friends which of your children you favor and I bet they would be able to pick the one you tend to favor over the
other(s). So where does that leave you?

probably true in most cases… we have “flaws” in our love… God does not.

 

[st_lucy]

Even if you love all your children the same (I’m not sure what that exactly means) do you not favor one over the other? I would bet I could as your friends which of your children you favor and I bet they would be able to pick the one you tend to favor over the
other(s). So where does that leave you?

I would dare you to try. I have three children, One in heaven and two on earth. I could tell by your reply that you are not a parent than. A parent’s love for their child is unending. It is so deep that you could never choose to favor one more than next. They are each so precious in their own way. That to choose to love one over another is just impossible.

I do hope you get to feel such love one day it would blow you away. I do believe that God bestows us with such perfect, priceless gifts to give us a little clue of His unending love for each of us.

 

[Reformed1]

I would dare you to try. I have three children, One in heaven and two on earth. I could tell by your reply that you are not a parent than. A parent’s love for their child is unending. It is so deep that you could never choose to favor one more than next. They are each so precious in their own way. That to choose to love one over another is just impossible.

I do hope you get to feel such love one day it would blow you away. I do believe that God bestows us with such perfect, priceless gifts to give us a little clue of His unending love for each of us.

I do have children so you assume to much. I didn’t say that you didn’t love your children equally. I think I said something along the lines of “Even if you love all your children the same (I’m not sure what that exactly means) do you not favor one over the other?”

I doubt that you are equally close to both of your children. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that and in fact would find it odd if a parent wasn’t.

Anyhow, why didn’t God harden Mose’s heart instead of pharoah’s?

My original statement was that we are not all equal before God. God gives his grace and gifts, if you want to seperate them that way, as He sees fit. God gifted Augustine with a much sharper mind than He gave me. He apparently didn’t care much for Esau.

When I read scripture I can see clearly that God does not favor or love all of us the same.

 

[st_lucy]

I do have children so you assume to much. I didn’t say that you didn’t love your children equally. I think I said something along the lines of “Even if you love all your children the same (I’m not sure what that exactly means) do you not favor one over the other?”

I doubt that you are equally close to both of your children. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that and in fact would find it odd if a parent wasn’t.

Anyhow, why didn’t God harden Mose’s heart instead of pharoah’s?

My original statement was that we are not all equal before God. God gives his grace and gifts, if you want to seperate them that way, as He sees fit. God gifted Augustine with a much sharper mind than He gave me. He apparently didn’t care much for Esau.

When I read scripture I can see clearly that God does not favor or love all of us the same.

Is this your own thought? I am sorry but I have always seen as He had better plans for Issac. He still loved Esau but didn’t see him fit for the plan.

And no I don’t favor one of my child more than the next. I love all three of them the same. My daughter and I have more mom daughter days were we go out to the mall and look aroung, but she loves that. My son and I have more giggle time and ruff housing time because he loves that. I am sorry but I would find odd if I saw a parent favoring one child over another. That to me is odd.

 

[Reformed1]

Is this your own thought? I am sorry but I have always seen as He had better plans for Issac. He still loved Esau but didn’t see him fit for the plan.

And no I don’t favor one of my child more than the next. I love all three of them the same. My daughter and I have more mom daughter days were we go out to the mall and look aroung, but she loves that. My son and I have more giggle time and ruff housing time because he loves that. I am sorry but I would find odd if I saw a parent favoring one child over another. That to me is odd.

Is there a scripture that says God loved Esau?

 

[MrS]

Does not God desire that all men come to Him…

Thus His desire is that all receive unending love in Heaven… but we need to use the graces He gives to attain that end.

God will not give any of us more than we can “handle”. And He will give us the necessary graces to win the good fight.

 

[Reformed1]

Does not God desire that all men come to Him…

Thus His desire is that all receive unending love in Heaven… but we need to use the graces He gives to attain that end.

God will not give any of us more than we can “handle”. And He will give us the necessary graces to win the good fight.

Who are all men? Maybe “all” refers to the elect and not to every Tom, Dick and Harry?

If it is His desire that all men come to Him, than why don’t all men come? Surely if God desires something, God can bring it to pass. What would motivate one to come and another not to come?

It seems that no one can come to Jesus unless the Father grants him that privellege (John 6:65…I think, I don’t have a Bible handy). Earlier in John 6:44(?) Jesus says that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws him. If God draws all men than there would be no reason for Jesus to state this as fact, it would just be understood.

The question about whether or not God give grace equally to everyone still remains.

 

[esr]

God desires that all people go to heaven. Thus, God gives each person the grace they need to reach heaven. So in that sense, yes God does give grace equally to everyone. However, it is still up to each person to be open and responsive to that grace.

 

[Reformed1]

God desires that all people go to heaven. Thus, God gives each person the grace they need to reach heaven. So in that sense, yes God does give grace equally to everyone. However, it is still up to each person to be open and responsive to that grace.

Is it possible that God give more grace to some?

 

[Loy]

I believe that point missed is that, if we are to evangalized effectively, we must start where our audience is at. Another point is that neither Hindus nor Muslims are pagans.

According to common English usage, anyone other than believers in Judahism, Christianity or Islam would be considered pagan. The common thread is belief in a monotheistic God of Abraham. Therefore, under common English usage, Hindus would be considered pagan.

If you’re saying that currently our Church leaders prefer that we refrain from using that word I can understand that, but that is what the word, “pagan”, means.

 

[Loy]

Someone in my bible study read the following quote from mother theresa and I didn’t believe it. Sure enough, I went on the internet and found the quote from mother theresa.

“There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God.” I am O.K. up until this point. However, the next part of the quote threw me for a loop.
“I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic.”

Jesus said to go out and make disciples of all nations. He never said go out and make the pagans better pagans. Am I missing something here?

Dolores

I think it’s unfortunate that Mother Theresa chose these words to express herself, because this statement seems to advocate syncretism. Syncretism is heretical, and it is because of this quote that so many Catholic traditionalists, as well some non-Catholics, consider Mother Theresa to be a heretic. I hope she wasn’t advocating syncretism, but IMHO, I think in reality this particular quote is misunderstood.

The way I look at it, when she says, “better Hindu”, and “better Muslim”, she means “better” as in “more Christian-like”.

Here’s an example. There is a traditional practice in certain sects of Hinduism called “suttee”, in which a living widow is immolated on the funeral pyre of her deceased husband. It is extremely rare and now illegal in India. Now let’s have a little reality check. If Mother Theresa had encountered a traditional Hindu woman who believed in suttee, does anyone really think that she would have encouraged that woman to become more devout in her traditional Hindu beliefs? No way! She would have tried to persuade the woman to abandon her beliefs in suttee. Isn’t that what she meant by “become a better Hindu”? Wouldn’t any evangelical Protestant missionary do the same thing?

Does anyone see the appropriate Christian response to be: “Well if they won’t convert to Christianity, let them have their suttee”? Of course not!

If Mother Theresa had been teaching Muslims that the Koran was infallible, or had been teaching Hindu children how to pray to Lord Krishna, then that would be syncretism. Instead, she led them by steps closer to Christianity by whatever openings she could use.

 

[elvisman]

Not everyone is equal before God.

You’re absolutely correct.
Protestants, who follow rebellious offshoots of the ONLY Church Jesus established as the TRUTH (Catholicism) are NOT the same as those who follow Jesus’ ENTIRE truth (Catholics).

Those who reject the Bread of Life Discourse in John 6 as merely “symbolic” like, say, Presbyterians) are NOT the same as those who can accept the truth as Jesus told it (Catholics).

 

[Reformed1]

You’re absolutely correct.
Protestants, who follow rebellious offshoots of the ONLY Church Jesus established as the TRUTH (Catholicism) are NOT the same as those who follow Jesus’ ENTIRE truth (Catholics).

Those who reject the Bread of Life Discourse in John 6 as merely “symbolic” like, say, Presbyterians) are NOT the same as those who can accept the truth as Jesus told it (Catholics).

How charitable of you but at least you agree that not all are equal before God even if you are clearly wrong on the other issues you mention.

 

[Jennifer123]

Do you believe God favors some over others?

Does God see Mary the same as Pol Pot? I thought you guys believed Mary was preserved from sin by an act of grace by God. Why didn’t God choose to give me or you or Hitler or Pol Pot or Stalin or Judas that grace?

I think you are confused about the notion of free will - these men used their free will given to follow their evil paths. Mary also used her free will to give herself completely to God and allow herself to be the vessel that brought Him into the world.

 

[elvisman]

How charitable of you but at least you agree that not all are equal before God even if you are clearly wrong on the other issues you mention.

Anyway, this is not the thread for the issues I brought up. I was defending Mother theresa, whose quote you took out of context.
Now, that wan’t very charitable was it?

As for being “clearly wrong” on my issues, prove it.
The burdon of proof is ALWAYS on accuser. The 2 points I made are supported not only by Scripture but by the writings of nearly EVERY church father . . .

 

[esr]

Reformed1 asked: “Is it possible that God gives more grace to some?”

Yes, because we are all unique and, thus, require different amounts of grace to reach our heavenly goal. However, He still gives each of us the same amount- (i.e. the amount which is enough for us to be with Him in heaven). It is like the analogy of the drinking glass. There are different sized glasses- but they are all full.

 

[Reformed1]

Anyway, this is not the thread for the issues I brought up. I was defending Mother theresa, whose quote you took out of context.
Now, that wan’t very charitable was it?

As for being “clearly wrong” on my issues, prove it.
The burdon of proof is ALWAYS on accuser. The 2 points I made are supported not only by Scripture but by the writings of nearly EVERY church father . . .

I didn’t attack mother Teresa. I suggest you go back and re-read my posts.

Her comments are what they are. You can take them at face value or you can try to put them in a context that you won’t find troublesome. Either way, I believe she mis-spoke. Is it a big deal to me that she mis-spoke? No, not really. If I were in her shoes I may end up saying the same thing but that isn’t really the point.

I can’t think of anything in the gospels that would make someone think it’s okay to encourage a Hindu to be a better Hindu.