SB pastor, Robert Jeffress asks "Did Satan Create Catholicism"?

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Debbie_Kono said:
I truly believe a non-Catholic Christian has to come to this conclusion at some point…or they have to become Catholic.
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Not all non-Catholics are anti-Catholic. Remember what Jesus said, “if they are not against us, they are with us” Luke 9:50
Even though it is not PC to say it, the fact is the Church still maintains that “Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation”.
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Not exactly. The Catholic Church Teaches that a person outside the Catholic Church can be saved, if they have not heard of or understood the Catholic message:
“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338
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=“Debbie_Kono, post:1, topic:454921, full:true”]
I truly believe a non-Catholic Christian has to come to this conclusion at some point…or they have to become Catholic.
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Let’s reverse it. If I said, “I truly believe a Catholic Christian has to come to this conclusion (non-Catholic Christians are of Satan) at some point…or they have to become Anglican.”
Sound unreasonable? That’s because both perspectives are.
This guy is a polemicist. He does not speak for the vast majority of western Christians.

Yes, we ourselves find it difficult to refute it, especially since we concede—as we must—that so much of what they say is true: that the papacy has God’s Word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received Holy Scripture, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them? Therefore faith, the Christian Church, Christ, and the Holy Spirit must also be found among them. - Luther
 
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I think we have to keep in mind that if Protestantism is true, than Catholicism is false…and anything false is from Satan. Of course the reverse would also be true. If Catholicism is true…

I found this comment over at fisheaters.com about the SB pastor’s claim and thought it worth thinking about:

In a sense the guy is right …

Satan, in participating in Christ’s death by his inspiring the Sanhedrin in their pride and hatred, in fact did create Catholicism.

Christ gave up his own life, but the circumstances of it were those of evil diabolically-inspired men, were that not to have happened, no Catholicism.

Though I doubt that’s what he means …

To De_Maria in regards to Luke 9:50…Haydock’s notes on that verse:

_Forbid him not. Our Lord is not moved by this event, to teach us that perfect virtue entertains no thoughts of revenge, and that anger cannot be found where the fulness of charity reigns. The weak must not be driven away, but assisted. Let the breast of the religious man be ever unmoved by passion, and the mind of the generous undisturbed by desires of revenge. St. Ambrose.

Traditionally, the Church has taught that if a man is seeking the truth, God will send him an angel or a priest to explain. I know this is true for me. I was introduced to Jesus via Protestantism. I just knew in my heart though that what they were telling me about God was not quite right. In retrospect, I can see God’s Hand on me ever since I learned about Jesus and believed…not because I am good or holy, far, far from it…but because I am a truth seeker by nature.
 
Debbie_Kono said:
I think we have to keep in mind that if Protestantism is true, than Catholicism is false…and anything false is from Satan. Of course the reverse would also be true. If Catholicism is true…

I found this comment over at fisheaters.com about the SB pastor’s claim and thought it worth thinking about:

In a sense the guy is right …

Satan, in participating in Christ’s death by his inspiring the Sanhedrin in their pride and hatred, in fact did create Catholicism.

Christ gave up his own life, but the circumstances of it were those of evil diabolically-inspired men, were that not to have happened, no Catholicism.

Though I doubt that’s what he means …

To De_Maria in regards to Luke 9:50…Haydock’s notes on that verse:

_Forbid him not. Our Lord is not moved by this event, to teach us that perfect virtue entertains no thoughts of revenge, and that anger cannot be found where the fulness of charity reigns. The weak must not be driven away, but assisted. Let the breast of the religious man be ever unmoved by passion, and the mind of the generous undisturbed by desires of revenge. St. Ambrose.

Traditionally, the Church has taught that if a man is seeking the truth, God will send him an angel or a priest to explain. I know this is true for me. I was introduced to Jesus via Protestantism. I just knew in my heart though that what they were telling me about God was not quite right. In retrospect, I can see God’s Hand on me ever since I learned about Jesus and believed…not because I am good or holy, far, far from it…but because I am a truth seeker by nature.
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Do you believe people didnt get saved until Luther started a new Church ?
 
Techno2000 said:
Do you believe people didnt get saved until Luther started a new Church ?
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I am Catholic. Traditionalist at that. So, yes of course people were saved before Luther revolted. I’m afraid though that many may have been lost due to following Luther.
 
It’s too bad that Reverend Jeffress is 45’s primary religious pastor and teacher.
 
🐐 well consider my goat gotten, because that’s what it is right now. GOTTEN.
 
Actually THAT IS NOT what the RCC teaches

The RCC DOES however teach that God’s Truths can be NOTHING other tna singsular per defined issues and that MOST Faith issues were DEFINED long before the now 500 year old Revolution.reformation.

From our Catholic Catechism:

1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: [BUT EXCLUDES ALL THOSE FREELY WILLING THEIR IGNORANCE… inserted by PJM]

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”

So friends, let’s began with GODS TRUTHS…Amen!
 
Agree Debbie. It seems apparent that every other church is there to attack the real Church as their primary goal. Jesus did not start these other Churches. Yes, we have problems in our Church but it is the only Church that teaches accountability, and that sins exist. I have recently met Baptists who travel to the end of the world to try to convert Catholics. Why? Why not try to convert atheists? because they are there to attack the Church. They do not believe in sins and tend to be angry people. I think it is safe to say that the people I know who attack the Church are not happy people. We need to pray for these people who are going after money, and selling their souls in the process. Robert Jeffress is not a man of God, he is a political entity. What did he do to become a pastor, send a couple bucks in the mail? Everybody is welcome to come to the real Church and see for yourself.
 
Debbie_Kono said:
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JonNC:
Why?..
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Because Luther is a heretic, teaching a false gospel. Faith alone, Scripture alone was never taught prior to the 16th century.
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So, that’s why you think some people are condemned?
How would that work?
 
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