Scandal and Gossip Question

[Schrode]

I’m having a really hard time understanding scandal. I hope I’m putting this in the right forum, so please let me know if I’m in the wrong one.
When I’ve been reading posts on here, I read a lot of comments about “causing scandal” - now I have looked up scandal in the CCC and it seems that many people take a lot of liberties with the word Scandal.

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."85 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.86

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."87 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,88 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!"89

I am reminded of the story about the person trying to take a splinter out of someone else’s eye while not even noticing the stake in their own when I read some of the posts regarding someone causing scandal. It seems too ofen that scandal (from what I"ve read on here) can occur if a sinful assumption can be made.
For instance, (here’s a hypothetical situation) : Let’s say that I have an apartment and I am engaged. My fiance comes over for dinner and we watch a movie together. My neighbors see him leaving at 10 pm and although they don’t know me very well, make the assumption that since my fiance was there for 4 hours (say we watched Avatar or something long) - that we must have been involved sexually. I have done nothing wrong in God’s eyes but in the nosy neighbor’s eyes, I have caused a scandal. Is this not some sin on their part, not knowing me yet making the assumption that because I have my fiance over I must be sexually active? I feel like it’s almost to the point that anything someone does can be considered scandal. To me, it seems that the neighbors may have committed some sin by being nosy (although I’m not sure if that’s really a sin - although it seems to come under the "Do to others what you would have them do to you "Matt 7:12) I havn’t really come accross something in the Baltimore Catechism or the CCC that mentions someone being nosy - but if they take it a step further and mention it to someone else, is that not starting gossip?
I guess I just really am having a difficult time understanding scandal. Let me throw out one other hypothetical example. If I am trying to explain a situaation to someone and in order for the situation to be understood fully by the other person, I have to mention that I was lied about or lied to am I gossiping? (just to make sure let’s say this is not done maliciously)
There just seems to be such a fine line with the whole scandal and gossiping. I read a thread about some parishoners believing a Priest was involved with a woman and now some of the parishoners were getting together to speak to him and then the BIshop about it(if it didn’t get resolved with the Priest)- how is speaking about the situation with other parishoners not gossip? Does it all have to do with intent?
Just kind of confused!

Schrode

My Lord and My God,
My Love and My Life,
Don’t leave me here all alone!
Cradel me in Your Arms,
Hold me in Your Heart,
Until You bring me home.

 

[AmataVeritas]

You are correct in that many people use the term “scandalous” rather broadly and beyond the definition given in the Catechism to describe any action, event, etc. that might cause indignation, comment, etc. What falls under the sin of scandal is more narrowly defined than how that word is used in everyday speech. Scandal is caused when a person becomes their neighbor’s temptor - the person who gives scandal damages virtue and integrity…

Let’s use the example you gave regarding your dinner and movie with your fiance. If your actions, example, etc. caused your neighbors or another person of weak faith to sin (i.e., by thinking your perceived behavior was an endorsement of that behavior so they follow your “example”), that falls into causing scandal. You have become your neighbor’s temptor and have caused damage to virtue and integrity by your example. So, to avoid scandal, not only do we need to avoid things that are objectively evil, but we may also be called to avoid things of lesser importance that are neutral or good. For more on this, see oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Scandal .

St. Paul also addressed this in 1 Corinthians 8:4-13 when he discussed eating meat that had been sacrificed to idols. While those who were mature in the faith could do so without it being a sin, St. Paul stated he would forego eating such meat if doing so would cause another weak in the faith to sin. In your example, though you may not have committed a sin with your fiance, in today’s culture, an assumption by your neighbors to the contrary would be entirely reasonable, so you would be prudent to take actions to avoid the appearance of sin.

Now, the person who is observing your behavior could be guilty of gossip. The CCC tells us “respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
-of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
-of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
-of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them” (CCC 2477).

Gossip is harmful if the talk involves one or more of the above three. So, the neighbor who sees your fiance leave at 10 p.m. may be guilty of rash judgment (but, as stated above, in this time and culture, as Christians, we should be avoiding even the appearance of committing sins when we can). The situation you described of sharing the sin committed against you with another person may fall under the sin of detraction if the person with whom you are sharing another’s faults did not know them and you do not have an objectively valid reason to share those faults with them, such as seeking spiritual guidance on the matter. As for the parishioners who were trying to discern what to do about the priest who was suspected of having an improper relationship, from what you discribed, it sounded as if they already knew of the situation and were planning on addressing it first with the priest, then with the ordinary (though it is imprudent to discuss such matters publicly where those who were not aware of the issue might overhear).

 

[JReducation]

I agree with Amata that the word “scandal” is broadly used and also too liberally at times. It has become almost fashionable to refer to anything to which we object as a scandal. We have to be very careful with that. Because the fact is that we who are doing the objecting may be the ones who are the cause of scandal. That which may not stir up anyone, may suddenly get everyone riled up, because we called negative attention to it.

A simple rule to avoid giving scandal is one that I teach to our people in formation, brothers and sisters. Avoid doing and saying what would shake up your faith if you saw or heard it from someone else. I know it’s simplistic; but it helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Bluegoat]

I think that an important principle with this question is the idea of “good faith”.

In the example with the fiance watching the movie, the first question is did it somehow tempt the person to sin, or just cause them to be indignant? If it didn’t tempt him, than it isn’t really scandal in the way the CC is using the word.

And is the neighbour acting in good faith in his indignation? I would say not - he is inquiring into issues that are not properly his business - they are between the individuals and their priests or confessors, and God. He is making assumptions that he clearly has no grounds for.

A more difficult problem is the neighbour living on the other side, who is not a Christian. He may assume their is sexual activity because that is what “everyone” does. And he isn’t indignant at all. This, it seems to me, isn’t scandal either, but it is a question how to address it. Perhaps by getting to know the person?

 

[JReducation]

I think that an important principle with this question is the idea of “good faith”.

In the example with the fiance watching the movie, the first question is did it somehow tempt the person to sin, or just cause them to be indignant? If it didn’t tempt him, than it isn’t really scandal in the way the CC is using the word.

And is the neighbour acting in good faith in his indignation? I would say not - he is inquiring into issues that are not properly his business - they are between the individuals and their priests or confessors, and God. He is making assumptions that he clearly has no grounds for.

A more difficult problem is the neighbour living on the other side, who is not a Christian. He may assume their is sexual activity because that is what “everyone” does. And he isn’t indignant at all. This, it seems to me, isn’t scandal either, but it is a question how to address it. Perhaps by getting to know the person?

You’re very right about the good faith part. When I was in the seminary one of my theoogy teachers said that there are individuals who make it their job to mind other people’s business so that they make it their own. I can’t recall the exact words. It was Fr. Dubay, whom we see on EWTN. He was one of my profs.

But he had a point. Scandal is not always scandal as much as not minding one’s own business. We need not feel responsible for the busy-body. Even St. Paul speaks about that one, people being busy-bodies instead of being busy about the things of God.

This is a delicate balance here.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Schrode]

You’re very right about the good faith part. When I was in the seminary one of my theoogy teachers said that there are individuals who make it their job to mind other people’s business so that they make it their own. I can’t recall the exact words. It was Fr. Dubay, whom we see on EWTN. He was one of my profs.

But he had a point. Scandal is not always scandal as much as not minding one’s own business. We need not feel responsible for the busy-body. Even St. Paul speaks about that one, people being busy-bodies instead of being busy about the things of God.

This is a delicate balance here.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I’m really glad you mentioned this - because it seems that at Church, we often have quite a few busy bodies and gossips. The situation I mentioned actually did occur and the woman who lived next door and a couple of houses down mentioned during the after church coffee and donut fellowship. Im begining to believe that scandal isn’t truly the problem - it’s those that mind everyone else’s business and then mention what they “think” they saw to others. There is more than one form of murder - you can gossip and “murder” a young couple’s reputation who were trying to stay chaste by not living together. I’ve also read on here where there was a Priest who some of the parishoners believe is/was seeing a woman. I later read on this same thread where another poster wanted these people to look before they leapt (by writting the Bishop)- this poster noted that rumours lead to a Priest being moved (aparently the rumours turned out to be false). I’m beginning to believe it isn’t scandal that does the most harm - it’s those that “report” the “scandal” (the scandal they assume is occuring). I wish that everyone would “Do unto others…” - if they did, no one would hardly ever “report” a scandal they think they see.
God Bless
Schrode