Scandal exposes Islam's weakness

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**Scandal exposes Islam’s weakness

**By Spengler
Code: 
                                                                            In an odd little byway of academia, Professor Muhammad Sven Kalisch, a German                                                                                  convert to Islam who teaches Muslim theology, has laid a Gnostic egg in the                                                                                  nest of Islam by declaring that the Prophet Mohammed never existed, at least                                                                                  not as Islamic tradition claims he did. It is another crack in the edifice of                                                                                  Islam, but a most dangerous one, because it came from the inside.                                                                                      (Nov 17,'08)
atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JK18Aa01.html
 
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Salaam/peace
MugenOne said:
**S

… convert to Islam…Prophet Mohammed never existed, **

I think , it was posted already in this forum . If anybody wants to be a Muslim / remain as a Muslim , s/he must testify that God is one & Muhammed (p) is a slave & messenger of God.

Anybody denies it is not a Muslim.
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The point is very serious intellectual attacks are being waged on Islam, and this includes the integrity of the Quran.

Muslims can’t ignore these attacks forever, at some point they will have to address them.
 
This is like someone claiming to be Catholic and saying that jesus never existed. It just doesn’t fit the definition.
 
yellowbicycle said:
This is like someone claiming to be Catholic and saying that jesus never existed. It just doesn’t fit the definition.
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or like saying Jesus was crucified “in appearance” as Gnostics believed and Muhammad parotted. It is ironic that the one clamimng this claim is a Gnostic Muslim.
 
TomaszA said:
The point is very serious intellectual attacks are being waged on Islam, and this includes the integrity of the Quran.

Muslims can’t ignore these attacks forever, at some point they will have to address them.
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I wouldn’t consider this to be a “very serious intellectual attack.”
 
This reminds me of an atheist I knew who argued that the name “Paul” was just a useful coverup for the real writer, Paul was just a puppet, etc., and finally another atheist said, “isn’t it more likely that the writer’s name really was Paul and he simply said the wrong things himself?”
 
Sister_Amy said:
I wouldn’t consider this to be a “very serious intellectual attack.”
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The claim that Muhammad did not exist is not the most convincing argument, I agree, but ultimately it’s based on questioning Islamic sources, such as the Qur’an and Hadith.

Textual criticism of the Qur’an is a fairly new development and Muslims are apprehensive to allow their texts to be scientifically examined. There have been instances of scholars being threatened with death for examining ancient Qur’anic texts, especially when these texts were reported to contain variations.

The question is whether Islam can survive a serious intellectual inquiry into it’s claims.
 
TomaszA said:
The question is whether Islam can survive a serious intellectual inquiry into it’s claims.
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Sure it can. Islam is part of man’s encounter with God, thus any intellectual inquiry into its origins ultimately faces a brick wall of Infinite Love.
 
TomaszA said:
The point is very serious intellectual attacks are being waged on Islam, and this includes the integrity of the Quran.

Muslims can’t ignore these attacks forever, at some point they will have to address them.
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Some points for your consideration. Saudi Arabia alone makes approximately 500 billion in petro dollars a year (much of it from the USA). It uses a portion of this wealth to build mosques and spread its form of Islam throughout the muslim world. A form of Islam that, but for the massive influx of cash in the last 50 years, would have remained penned in by the Arabian Peninsula.

I think that as long as this situation remains, Islam will be able to sustain any intellectual attacks. Saudi Arabia controls the mosques and the mosques control the information on Islam. A puritanical form of Islam responsible for the theological engin driving violent jihad.
 
This sounds to me like he’s trying to play “Me too!” with those Christian scholars who insist that Jesus never existed.

I bear witness there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead!
 
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Salaam/peace
Valke2 said:
… massive influx of cash in the last 50 years, .
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What about the Christian World ? Vatican does not sponsor for spreading the good news & converting the ’ lost souls’ ? What about the other faiths ? Don’t they receive money from any country /any one to spread their religion ?

About 2 years back , I visited a Buddists temple in Bangladesh ( most probably it was the Rangamati Bihar/ temple ). I was surprised to see a notice that they are collecting money to buy an expensive car for the head of the monks / temple. I don’t know how many Imams use cars here. Normally they are not well paid .

I read that Christian Missionaries spend a lot of money in Africa , sometimes it is more than a country’s budget of the fiscal year.

What’s wrong if Saudi Govt. build mosques / Islamic centers ? They must try to give message of the all Prophets including Moses , Jesus , Muhammed (pbut) that God is one , God does not have any mom , son , partner etc.
 
Muslim_Woman said:
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

What about the Christian World ? Vatican does not sponsor for spreading the good news & converting the ’ lost souls’ ? What about the other faiths ? Don’t they receive money from any country /any one to spread their religion ?

About 2 years back , I visited a Buddists temple in Bangladesh ( most probably it was the Rangamati Bihar/ temple ). I was surprised to see a notice that they are collecting money to buy an expensive car for the head of the monks / temple. I don’t know how many Imams use cars here. Normally they are not well paid .

I read that Christian Missionaries spend a lot of money in Africa , sometimes it is more than a country’s budget of the fiscal year.

What’s wrong if Saudi Govt. build mosques / Islamic centers ? They must try to give message of the all Prophets including Moses , Jesus , Muhammed (pbut) that God is one , God does not have any mom , son , partner etc.
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Never in the history of the world has such a fringe and radical element of a major religion had so much cash. That is the major difference. It would be like having the KKK having access to the same amount of wealth and resources as the Catholic Church.

The building of mosques is not a problem per se. But they are built with money from those who wish to promote the most violent and puratanical froms of Islam. Normally such a fringe element of Islam would remain relatively obsure. But because of the billions of dollars being used to promote it, it is affectin mainstream muslims and changing the way people practice Islam.

Look at Egypt for example. Years ago it was a much more liberal country. Just a small example. Look at its entertainment industry. It is now largely financed by islamist fundamentalist dollars through Saudi Arabia, and one of the consequences are the so called 35 (37?) rules that have to be followed in producing programs and movies.

Once upon a time, one could turn on the television and watch a comedy with a slightly tipsy, flirty woman as a character, and laugh. Today she would be stoned. (paraphrasing the last from Thomas Friedman’s “The World is Hot, Flat and Crowded.”)
 
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Salaam/peace
Valke2 said:
…
Look at Egypt for example… 35 (37?) rules that have to be followed in producing programs and movies.
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don’t know what kinds of rules they have in Egypt but I will be verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy happy if something is done with some horrible tv channels/ movies.

In the name of entertainment , what the Hollywood & Bollywood ( Bombay movie Industry ) are doing is a major sin. We must not watch anything that may lead / provoke us to do immoral acts. English , Hindu movies / tv serials are very popular all over the world. They glorify extra-marital affairs , having love childs etc. Sadly few years back , I started watching English serial like Bold & Beautiful . I always hold the remote control so that I can change the channel to avoid watching kiss scenes & some other staff , sometimes scene started with kiss & unwillingly I watched those for 2/3 seconds & felt guilty. I was very fond of Hindi serials also. Thanks God. Allah made me asked myself why on earth I am watching these serials that go against my belief , that glorify all the bad things in the name of love.

I hope , in all countries specially in the Muslim majority countries , Govt. will do something about telecasting those movies / serials that is surely a tool of Satan to mislead people from the path of God.

Many people are becoming shameless now a days .
I wonder if anybody has noticed this horrific matter ?
 
So, has a fatwa been issued against Kalisch?

This is a nice “Da Vinci” moment for Islam.
 
The difficulty with the ‘mythical-Mohammed’ theory is that one also has to assume that historical figures like Abu Bakr, Omar, Ali and the early Ummayad caliphs are all either legendary, or co-conspirators in some elaborate world-historical hoax. One should also bear in mind that several of these figures were fierce political rivals, yet none of them seem to have called the claimed relationship of their rivals to the figure of Mohammed into question. It seems unlikely that such unanimity could be maintained without some undeniable real historical personage.

The authenticity of the Koran is an entirely separate issue. It is quite probable that this is a more-or-less eclectic assemblage of material of varied provenance. It is quite probable that certain episodes in Mohammed’s biography may be legendary. Much of the Hadith material may well fall into this category.
 
If this guy’s head doesn’t role then he will be made an outcast and the muslims will make up cartoons about him as either a dog, pig or some such nonsense.

This is what they do. The majority are unable to question islam and when the lone muslim does - whack!

Look what they did to a cleric who thought maybe they should ease up on their rules of how they treat others of other religions - he was beheaded. He never questioned anything except just easing up a bit.

mohammed existed all right - what is also true about him is that he was a very, unstable guy. Frontal lobe epilepsy, narcissist, and a mysoginist - all characteristics can be gotten from islam’s own texts of him.

What I would like for someone to do is dig up his grave in saudi arabia. See what is in that grave. The reason why no pictures were allowed of him is probably due to the fact he had something wrong with his face, and/or his body. I would really like to see a computer put some flesh on his skull, if it still exists.
 
R_not said:
If this guy’s head doesn’t role then he will be made an outcast and the muslims will make up cartoons about him as either a dog, pig or some such nonsense.

This is what they do. The majority are unable to question islam and when the lone muslim does - whack!

Look what they did to a cleric who thought maybe they should ease up on their rules of how they treat others of other religions - he was beheaded. He never questioned anything except just easing up a bit.

mohammed existed all right - what is also true about him is that he was a very, unstable guy. Frontal lobe epilepsy, narcissist, and a mysoginist - all characteristics can be gotten from islam’s own texts of him.

What I would like for someone to do is dig up his grave in saudi arabia. See what is in that grave. The reason why no pictures were allowed of him is probably due to the fact he had something wrong with his face, and/or his body. I would really like to see a computer put some flesh on his skull, if it still exists.
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Was Mohammad assumed bodily to heaven or was his body buried and left to rot on this earth? If he was buried, where could that be?
 
Reuben_J said:
Was Mohammad assumed bodily to heaven or was his body buried and left to rot on this earth? If he was buried, where could that be?
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Oh, he rotted a long time ago. he is buried (I can’t remember) either in Mecca or Medina. Aisha is buried near to him. I think that I remembered that correctly.

There are no miracles associated with mohammed and that is one of the 10 reasons why mohammed is no prophet. Another reason being that instead of complimenting the prior messages of the Bible - he changed and/or distorted them. Just as he had to redefine sin because he broke most of the 10 commandments, and as he told his followers to do, he also changed the essence of the messages. mohammed brought hate and chaos.
 
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