Scandanvian Countries predomintly atheist?

[SeanF1989]

I have been hearing for some years now that Scandanavian countries are full of atheists. The most famous quote is “Sweden is 80% atheist” please tell me this isn’t true

Christianity built Sweden, Norway and Denmark so it is very upsetting for me to see them turn their backs on the faith of their country.

PS - What is this I heard about fierce anti-Christian attacks in Norway in the 1990’s at the hands of Pagans?

 

[tonyrey]

It is quite true but what is more astonishing is that according to a survey 15 percent of the members of the Swedish Church are atheists and a quarter are agnostic! It goes to show that atheist propaganda is more effective in a society with a higher standard of living where people are cushioned against reality, more materialistic and have less need of God than the poor and deprived in Africa, Asia and South America where there are many conversions to Christianity because they know it is futile to stake everything on this life, worship material possessions and seek for lasting happiness in this world, instead of loving one another, trusting in divine Providence and looking forward to the fulfilment of the promises of Jesus in the world to come. They don’t believe in “pie in the sky” - or “pie on earth” - but in the Living Bread that came down from heaven, dwelt amongst us and gave His life for all of us - including those who reject Him and despise His followers…

 

[Night_Crawler]

Yeah bro it sucks, Scandinavians are quite intelligent, they’ve got everything going for them, quality economy, hot chicks, nice landscape, and overall high standard of living.

The trouble is they are way too liberal. They are incredibly bigoted when it comes to christianity, almost like they despise anything Christ like. Sweden has some F****D up policies, such as a chick who is pregnant gets 1 years full pay (holiday leave) and the Dude gets 3 months or something outrageous like that, lol.

However in saying all this, Nordic countries (especially swedick) I GUARANTEE you will undergo a very harsh chastisement. Hell, it’s already happening over there now, just the beggining but nonetheless it’s happening. Muslims. Massive problem over there. It’s a punishment from God due to the aborted babies over there.

As for the church burnings in Norway, that is Black Metal related.

One guy said to me Scandinavians are like robots without souls.

 

[VeritasSeeker]

It is quite true but what is more astonishing is that according to a survey 15 percent of the members of the Swedish Church are atheists and a quarter are agnostic! It goes to show that atheist propaganda is more effective in a society with a higher standard of living where people are cushioned against reality, more materialistic and have less need of God than the poor and deprived in Africa, Asia and South America where there are many conversions to Christianity because they know it is futile to stake everything on this life, worship material possessions and seek for lasting happiness in this world, instead of loving one another, trusting in divine Providence and looking forward to the fulfilment of the promises of Jesus in the world to come. They don’t believe in “pie in the sky” - or “pie on earth” - but in the Living Bread that came down from heaven, dwelt amongst us and gave His life for all of us - including those who reject Him and despise His followers…

Indeed, for as our Lord said, “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:25)

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I think, given the comparative birth rates and age distributions, the Scandinavian countries are past the tipping point and will become Muslim.

 

[Cormacnl]

I think, given the comparative birth rates and age distributions, the Scandinavian countries are past the tipping point and will become Muslim.

I don’t get the joke.

 

[Calgar]

I think, given the comparative birth rates and age distributions, the Scandinavian countries are past the tipping point and will become Muslim.

That’s only if they (the scandinavians) go quietly.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Scandinavia was the last outpost of conversion for Christianity, and perhaps the first to fully abandon Christianity. Socialism has had a lot to do with this, but another culprit is Lutheranism. Sweden followed Luther out of the Catholic Church and Christianity has been in decline there ever since, as it has been in decline in England since the Brits followed Henry VIII out of the Catholic Church.

I have been to Stockholm several times. The Lutheran Churches are like empty museum pieces reflecting the once great Catholic heritage of Sweden. The only church in Stockholm that is full to the brim on Sunday is the downtown Catholic Church, and that seems to serve more tourists than Swedish Catholics. As I recall, there is only one Catholic bishop in all of Sweden.

I could not find any visible signs of religiosity among the Swedes. Religion is never discussed. The only passion I could detect among the Swedes was a passion for cradle to grave security. Correction, they do have one other passion, finding ways to evade oppressive taxation. But that is universal. They certainly don’t have a passion for raising families, and that is why the native population is in decline and Muslims with their families are moving in at a rapid pace. It is a civilization dedicated to its own demise … national suicide.

We seem to be following their example.

 

[anjoh66]

As a Scandinavian i must say that there is some truth in this. Atheism is growing fast and religion is looked upon in a way that if someone is religious they must be of low IQ.

On the other hand there is a good ecumenical work between different denominations, where the Catholic Church is one of the foremost, with the culmination of the Jesus maniphest, where the city of Stockholm is filled with believers from all scandinavian countries praying together and inviting people to worship the Lord Jesus.

jesusmanifestationen.se/

Therefore we still have hope for those countries even though a lot of work still needs to be done.

 

[Rolltide]

Scandinavia was the last outpost of conversion for Christianity, and perhaps the first to fully abandon Christianity. Socialism has had a lot to do with this, but another culprit is Lutheranism. Sweden followed Luther out of the Catholic Church and Christianity has been in decline there ever since, as it has been in decline in England since the Brits followed Henry VIII out of the Catholic Church.

Don’t make too much of this though. Two of the countries that are losing Catholics the fastest are Spain and Ireland.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Don’t make too much of this though. Two of the countries that are losing Catholics the fastest are Spain and Ireland.

Never would have guessed that. Went to wiki and looked up Spain and I found the following:
wiki:

The Spanish Constitution of 1978 abolished the Roman Catholic Church as the official state religion, while recognizing the role it plays in Spanish society. 76.7% of the population define themselves as Catholic, 20.0% as non-believers or atheists, and 1.6% other religions. Among believers, 55.3% assert they almost never go to any religious service, by contrast, 17.0% attend one or more masses almost every week.

Sent from my phone. Please pardon my mistakes.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Scandinavia was the last outpost of conversion for Christianity, and perhaps the first to fully abandon Christianity. Socialism has had a lot to do with this, but another culprit is Lutheranism. Sweden followed Luther out of the Catholic Church and Christianity has been in decline there ever since, as it has been in decline in England since the Brits followed Henry VIII out of the Catholic Church.

I have been to Stockholm several times. The Lutheran Churches are like empty museum pieces reflecting the once great Catholic heritage of Sweden. The only church in Stockholm that is full to the brim on Sunday is the downtown Catholic Church, and that seems to serve more tourists than Swedish Catholics. As I recall, there is only one Catholic bishop in all of Sweden.

I could not find any visible signs of religiosity among the Swedes. Religion is never discussed. The only passion I could detect among the Swedes was a passion for cradle to grave security. Correction, they do have one other passion, finding ways to evade oppressive taxation. But that is universal. They certainly don’t have a passion for raising families, and that is why the native population is in decline and Muslims with their families are moving in at a rapid pace. It is a civilization dedicated to its own demise … national suicide.

We seem to be following their example.

Sadly, the “national suicide” reference is not just hyperbole. Like many countries with a high rate of atheism, the Scandinavian countries have a high suicide rate (although, to be fair, a lower rate of homicide than most states where believers predominate.)

 

[tonyrey]

Sadly, the “national suicide” reference is not just hyperbole. Like many countries with a high rate of atheism, the Scandinavian countries have a high suicide rate (although, to be fair, a lower rate of homicide than most states where believers predominate.)

And where extreme poverty leads to despair and crime…

 

[Whadyamean]

It is quite true but what is more astonishing is that according to a survey 15 percent of the members of the Swedish Church are atheists and a quarter are agnostic! It goes to show that atheist propaganda is more effective in a society with a higher standard of living where people are cushioned against reality, more materialistic and have less need of God than the poor and deprived in Africa, Asia and South America where there are many conversions to Christianity because they know it is futile to stake everything on this life, worship material possessions and seek for lasting happiness in this world, instead of loving one another, trusting in divine Providence and looking forward to the fulfilment of the promises of Jesus in the world to come. They don’t believe in “pie in the sky” - or “pie on earth” - but in the Living Bread that came down from heaven, dwelt amongst us and gave His life for all of us - including those who reject Him and despise His followers…

Wow…Now we can relieve ourselves of guilt and instead of bringing the investors who caused our economic woes to justice, we can give them a ticker tape parade on Wall Street and hail them as heroes of Christianity for re-spiritualizing our Nation!!!

The holiest and most spiritual individual I ever knew or met was a multi-millionaire. He understood that actual meaning of the idea of poverty as vowed by our clergy who often live in sumptuous circumstances. He knew and practiced it in a way that made it practical and revealed the component of that consideration that actually makes it functional.

And the people who pray to God in desperation in the circumstances you name, are they praying for salvation, or are they begging for food, water, clothing, shelter, and relief from oppression? The desperation in that sort of spirituality is still a side track from what is functionally useful. Even in the necessary “dark night of the soul,” it takes immense discipline and perception to steer without crashing on the rocks. And yet you seem to attribute wholesale desperation as a wonderful spiritual circumstance as distinct form a real grounding in Spirit. Do I understand you correctly?

 

[Sair]

Wow…Now we can relieve ourselves of guilt and instead of bringing the investors who caused our economic woes to justice, we can give them a ticker tape parade on Wall Street and hail them as heroes of Christianity for re-spiritualizing our Nation!!!

The holiest and most spiritual individual I ever knew or met was a multi-millionaire. He understood that actual meaning of the idea of poverty as vowed by our clergy who often live in sumptuous circumstances. He knew and practiced it in a way that made it practical and revealed the component of that consideration that actually makes it functional.

And the people who pray to God in desperation in the circumstances you name, are they praying for salvation, or are they begging for food, water, clothing, shelter, and relief from oppression? The desperation in that sort of spirituality is still a side track from what is functionally useful. Even in the necessary “dark night of the soul,” it takes immense discipline and perception to steer without crashing on the rocks. And yet you seem to attribute wholesale desperation as a wonderful spiritual circumstance as distinct form a real grounding in Spirit. Do I understand you correctly?

And it’s interesting that Scandinavian countries tend to return top results in surveys of happiness - although happiness is, of course, rather a nebulous concept and often means different things to different people.

As for the claim that socialism leads to irreligiosity, I find that rather extraordinary in view of the fact that Christianity actually has a great deal in common with socialism - in theory, if not necessarily in contemporary practice.

I would also be inclined to dispute the claim that the move away from Catholicism to Protestantism is responsible for religious decline in Scandinavia; after all, the most vociferous Christians in the US tend to come from the Protestant churches…

 

[You]

…
I would also be inclined to dispute the claim that the move away from Catholicism to Protestantism is responsible for religious decline in Scandinavia; after all, the most vociferous Christians in the US tend to come from the Protestant churches…

protestantism in the US is descended from particular types of protestantism which were hated and shunned by protestantism in England, eventually they were chased out of England to the new American states. English protestantism, while it could not tolerate Catholicism without giving it a life-sentence in prison or torturing it to death, was fairly liberal-minded or maybe pragmatic might be a better term amongst itself under Elizabeth. I suspect Lutherism on the Continent was fairly similar under the German Princes, but they also exported strange protestantism to America from Switzerland and such places.
Lutherism in Scandanavia, like Anglicalism in England answers to the State, the parliament in England appoints the British Bishops in the Anglican Church so presumably whatever the prevailing social trend or consciousness is at the time will also be the same in parliament and so, in the Church of England. And when the population see that their church, and hence their religion, is just as corrupt and flawed and politically and socially subservient as any other individual of the state or organization in the state they will, understandably not look to it for any guidance.

 

[tonyrey]

It is quite true but what is more astonishing is that according to a survey 15 percent of the members of the Swedish Church are atheists and a quarter are agnostic! It goes to show that atheist propaganda is more effective in a society with a higher standard of living where people are cushioned against reality, more materialistic and have less need of God than the poor and deprived in Africa, Asia and South America where there are many conversions to Christianity because they know it is futile to stake everything on this life, worship material possessions and seek for lasting happiness in this world, instead of loving one another, trusting in divine Providence and looking forward to the fulfilment of the promises of Jesus in the world to come. They don’t believe in “pie in the sky” - or “pie on earth” - but in the Living Bread that came down from heaven, dwelt amongst us and gave His life for all of us - including those who reject Him and despise His followers…

You have misrepresented me extraordinarily well!

Wow…Now we can relieve ourselves of guilt and instead of bringing the investors who caused our economic woes to justice, we can give them a ticker tape parade on Wall Street and hail them as heroes of Christianity for re-spiritualizing our Nation!!!

A dramatic statement but it hardly tallies with any of my points…

The holiest and most spiritual individual I ever knew or met was a multi-millionaire. He understood that actual meaning of the idea of poverty as vowed by our clergy who often live in sumptuous circumstances. He knew and practiced it in a way that made it practical and revealed the component of that consideration that actually makes it functional.

One of the exceptions that proves the rule if we are to judge by the waste and extravagance of the rich who spend more in one day than one of the poor earns in an entire year.

And the people who pray to God in desperation in the circumstances you name, are they praying for salvation, or are they begging for food, water, clothing, shelter, and relief from oppression? The desperation in that sort of spirituality is still a side track from what is functionally useful.

You are underestimating their faith, hope and certainly their love which put those who wallow in luxury to shame. Fifteen years in Africa gave me insight into their superior values…

Even in the necessary “dark night of the soul,” it takes immense discipline and perception to steer without crashing on the rocks. And yet you seem to attribute wholesale desperation as a wonderful spiritual circumstance as distinct form a real grounding in Spirit.

When their children die - which is a common event - they don’t give way to “wholesale desperation”.Their spirituality is real and not a perfunctory once-a-week visit to church. Even though they are “desperately” poor they share the little they have. The name of God is often on their lips - and not as a blasphemous swear word as it is in the West…

 

[Whadyamean]

It is quite true but what is more astonishing is that according to a survey 15 percent of the members of the Swedish Church are atheists and a quarter are agnostic!.

OK, let’s start again.

What are these people doing calling themselves members of a Church? To me atheism can be a step up from religion in that it can indicate a step away from false piety and toward critical thinking. And agnosticism is at least a position of honesty and ought to give joy to a person of any other religion because they may be a person of interest for conversion. Hopefully the agnostic along with the atheist will both recant and yet go past religion.

It goes to show that atheist propaganda is more effective in a society with a higher standard of living where people are cushioned against reality,

I very much concur that wealth can be a cushion against reality, but so can religion,even ours to some people…

…more materialistic and have less need of God than the poor and deprived in Africa,.

Why would someone cushioned against reality have less “need of God” as you put it, than someone in dire straights? Are they not more asleep in your terms? This is why I said what I did earlier.

Asia and South America where there are many conversions to Christianity because they know it is futile to stake everything on this life, worship material possessions and seek for lasting happiness in this world, instead of loving one another, trusting in divine Providence and looking forward to the fulfilment of the promises of Jesus in the world to come…

Here you continue to posit that wealth/poverty is a factor in being amenable to the clothing of spirituality.
.

They don’t believe in “pie in the sky” - or “pie on earth” - but in the Living Bread that came down from heaven, dwelt amongst us and gave His life for all of us - including those who reject Him and despise His followers…

Who are these “they?” Have you interviewed all Africans or Asians to get their take on Christianity. And why are you happy that they are “converting?” Someone I know is a Mormon missionary and he and his companions are nearly gloating that they are converting Catholics in droves.

So I’m trying to be clear here in exactly what it is you are saying, including wondering what you mean by “atheist propaganda?” What if people are just thinking for themselves?Many people I know are fleeing religion and are yet becoming mote adoring of God and respectful of Creation and of each other. Many of them are atheist whom I would far more easily trust than many of the pious I know of any faith.So again, what is your point? If Catholicism is great for you, that is absolutely wonderful. You are where you need to be to learn what you need to learn. Maybe other folks are in a different position?

 

[SeanF1989]

Bump

 

[tonyrey]

What are these people doing calling themselves members of a Church? To me atheism can be a step up from religion in that it can indicate a step away from false piety and toward critical thinking.

Who are these “they?” Have you interviewed all Africans or Asians to get their take on Christianity.Do you think case studies in social science are utterly valueless? Are all your opinions based on statistics?

And why are you happy that they are “converting?”

It sounds as if you have roamed out of the Catholic Church to ask such a question!

Someone I know is a Mormon missionary and he and his companions are nearly gloating that they are converting Catholics in droves.

So?

So I’m trying to be clear here in exactly what it is you are saying, including wondering what you mean by “atheist propaganda?”

Propaganda of the Richard Dawkins variety that we are merely animals that exist for no reason or purpose - and that religion is evil.

What if people are just thinking for themselves?

You are implying that religious people don’t think for themselves. Why does this forum exist?

Many people I know are fleeing religion and are yet becoming more adoring of God and respectful of Creation and of each other.

You mean “institutional religion”. Where do they get their ideas of God? And why are they more respectful than relious people?

Many of them are atheist whom I would far more easily trust than many of the pious I know of any faith.

How do atheists become more adoring of God?

So again, what is your point?

What is your point? I have given my answer to the OP and now you need to give yours…

[/QUOTE]