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Matt16_18
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Can you provide a hyperlink to that article?
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flameburns623
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Traditional Ang:
I think the point of the split in the Anglican Communion–if it actually emerges–is that most taditonalist Anglicans DON’T WANT to join the RCC. They want to be Anglicans in an orthodox Anglican communion. I doubt if even the 30,000 members of the TAC will follow en masse into the RCC–the TAC will more likely splinter, with only a minority going into the RCC. But I’m not actually familiar with the TAC so will wait and see.
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Writer
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I wish I could… The book is a collection of wonderful essays and bears the same title as the particular essay in question, but it is out of print. I had to purchase it used from a bookstore in London via Amazon. If you wanted a copy and are unable to purchase the used book, I guess I could mail you a copy of the article. If you’re going to be looking for the book on Amazon, you could use the link on my humble webpage (select Amazon reviews). I may not check Forums again for a while, so feel free to drop me an e-mail if you like.
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Matt16_18
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But determining what is orthodox and what is heresy is the root of all the problems in Anglicanism, isn’t it? As long as Anglicans remain Anglicans, they will never be truly orthodox. One group within Anglicanism will claim that they are orthodox, and another group within Anglicanism will claim that, no, they are the truly orthodox. Because no one within Anglicanism recognizes a hierarchy vested with the temporal authority from God to determine what is orthodox and what is heterodox, the divisions and bickering will continue to remain unresolved.
Anglicanism is just like every other Protestant denomination, doomed to splinter into ever increasing contentious and divided sects.
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Eden
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Gottle of Geer said:## That, of course, is the teaching of the CC - the PECUSA may not agree with it.
It would be a little odd if people in one Church felt obliged to listen to the teaching of a different Church. Anglicans are no more bound by Catholic doctrine than, we are by Anglican doctrine.##
The teaching about homosexuality that is found in the CCC is right out of the bible. Even Sola Scriptura can’t deny that the bible says that the homosexual act is a sin.
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Traditional_Ang
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Flameburns:
According to the Anglican Communion, excluding all the various dissident groups no longer in union with the Abp. of Canterbury, There are 77 million Anglicans worldwide. If even only 50% of them are still orthodox, that’s 38 million (most of these are in the Global South or CAPA). Add to that number the 5 million or so orthodox Anglicans who left in various waves after 1976 (PECUSA Sanctioned the Ordination of Women Priests), and you have 43 million Anglicans looking for a home. Of those 43 Million, 25% describe themselves as Anglo-Catholic, “High-Church” or sympathetic to Rome… That’s how I got the probable final wave of 10 million Anglicans worldwide would be heading towards Rome, which was probably low.
Let’s say I was wrong and that only a 1/4 of the “Anglo-Catholics” were serious enough to make the trip, that’s still over 2.5 million. How are you going to provide for them?
Those are the people you have to provide for. and, What if, as has been prophesied by one of the Saints, the orthodox Anglicans and their clergy in England all decide to become Catholic?
I must admit, I’m much more concerned about this wave, and, I suspect, so is the Pope, who, I believe, wants to be able to get as many faithful Catholics out of it and into the Catholic Church as possible.
Regarding your figures, Abp. Hepworth and others who are far more familiar with the TAC would beg to differ. They believe that about 285,000 of the TAC’s 500,000 members would be making the swim. There are also several other Anglican dissident groups,most of which I’m not at liberty to discuss as they haven’t released this information, who have expressed much more than passing interest in joining us for making the swim, or coming after things have been worked out. Remember, we’re NOT only discussing Anglicans in N. America, but we’re also discussing Anglicans worldwide who’ve already made a choice to leave the Anglican Communion and to throw in their lot with the TAC as well as New Christians who’ve been made in areas such as the Torres Straits, South Asia and Africa.
As I said in a previous post, among other things, I was pleased when Bishop Chislett stated that he believed in the Infallibility of the Pope as defined by Vatican I.
The ONE thing that can REALLY knock that number down significiantly is if the Anglo-Catholics begin to believe that they will NOT be welcome in their NEW home and that they really are neither wanted nor needed by the present occupants.
It only stands to reason - People don’t go where they’re not wanted, and it’s considered psychologically unhealthy and masochistic to do otherwise.
Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones. Michael
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rjs1
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Traditional Ang:
I am continuing to follow what you are saying with great interest and prayer. Could you please give us more information about the prophecy of the saint mentioned in your post?
If what you say is correct then it will be an event of great blessing for the ex-Anglicans concerned and for the Catholic Church.
Michael,
I am continuing to follow what you are saying with great interest and prayer. Could you please give us more information about the prophecy of the saint mentioned in your post?
If what you say is correct then it will be an event of great blessing for the ex-Anglicans concerned and for the Catholic Church.
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Traditional_Ang
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Matt:
Anglicans didn’t really have that problem until the lack of a real Authority Structure kept both PECUSA and the Anglican Communion from dealing with the bishop of San Francisco, the Rt. Rev. James A. (Call me “Jim”) Pike, after he began to publicly question the deity and resurrection of Jesus Christ in the 1960’s.
in 1973, a PECUSA Bishop Ordained Women “Deacons” preparatory to their being ordained for the Priesthood. Their was NO discipline. in 1975, that same Bishop ordained 4 of the women as “Priests”. Presented with the “Fait accompli”, the PECUSA House of Bishops approved the ordination of Women “Priests” in 1976.
The inability of the Communion to deal with that problem has been at the root of almost all of the Communion’s problems. That’s why Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have insisted that the TAC adopt a Roman style authority structure.
Before the 1960’s, Anglican Teaching and Doctrine was derived from: (A) The clear meaning of Scripture, (B) The 2 Creeds and the 7 Councils of the Early Church, along with the early church Fathers, and (C) Reason.
PECUSA (now ECUSA) and the Church of Canada threw that all out when they said, “The Holy Spirit Trumps Scripture.”
Although the Anglican groups did split (mostly over personality and “churchmanship” issues) a lot between 1976-95, most of those groups have been talking much more amicably to each other (with some notable exceptions) during the last few years. A few have even managed to recombine, although it took a lot of work.
The next major split will likely happen as those members who aren’t going to Rome split off from the groups who are. I imagine it will be a rather hectic 3 to 5 years.
Thoe above are just some of the reasons I’ve been asking for both prayers and patience.
Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones, Michael
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Traditional_Ang
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rjs1:
I don’t know where I heard this, but it seems that one of the martyrs, during the dark days of the Puritan Revolt, made the prophecy that England would one day return to the One True Church.
I’ve seen this on EWTN a few times, and someone referred to it during the Anglicans to Rome Thread, beyond that, I’m pretty ignorant of the details, But just that bit seems quite encouraging.
Anyone who knows the history of the Anglican revolt against the Heresy and Apostacy in PECUSA and the C of C, knows that schism and problems with authority have been the order of the day (Matt was right), but is seems that, since 1994, the TAC has been largely immune from that as first Abp. Faulk and then Abp. Hepworth have pretty much implimented what Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI “Urged” or “Suggested”.
So, it seems as to me if they were and are acting as if the prophecy were true, and that they think the TAC might be part of the means to accomplish that.
Remember, a lot of FAITHFUL, Orthodox Anglicans in England have got to be looking at their Church right now, and they’re not going to be liking what they’re seeing.
Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones. Michael
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