Scary WSJ article about organ donation

[mafh]

I just read this article on WSJ, and it has really frightened me:

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204603004577269910906351598.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

Are there any medical people out there who can put my mind at ease about this? It seems like at the very least the family should request an EEG before allowing brain death to be declared, and also that they should insist on anesthesia during the organ harvesting… just in case.

Also, what is the catholic view on when death occurs?

Thanks.

 

[Ladygem]

the Catholic view is that life is from conception to natural death, but I’m not sure if brain-death counts as natural death or not. I personally draw the line at needing a machine to breath and pump your heart for you, so brain death counts for me, but this can get complicated very quickly. As for the article, being an organ donor would still be worth it for me.

 

[sw85]

I just read this article on WSJ, and it has really frightened me:

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204603004577269910906351598.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

Are there any medical people out there who can put my mind at ease about this? It seems like at the very least the family should request an EEG before allowing brain death to be declared, and also that they should insist on anesthesia during the organ harvesting… just in case.

Also, what is the catholic view on when death occurs?

Thanks.

I don’t know if there is an official Catholic view. I can say with relative certainty though that “brain death” is almost certainly not “death” in the strict Catholic sense, which I understood was for a long time conflated with “cold, stiff, and blue.” I have heard of cases of people having organs harvested 90 seconds after the heart stopping; in such cases people are definitely still alive. “Cold, stiff, and blue” seems a safe standard.

For myself, since I learned about these horrors a few months ago, I absolutely refuse to be a part of such a system, and I immediately withdrew my consent to act as an organ donor in the event of my unexpected death. Insofar as you have a duty to preserve your own life, you are probably similarly obligated to withdraw consent.

 

[SonCatcher]

I also saw that article. It seems that the most controversial practices are keeping the ventilator going while preparing the intended organ recipients and not including EEG in determining brain death. Since a ventilator is not required per Catholic teaching, that point seems moot, so long as they remove it prior to harvest.

The EEG issue is more critical, however. If higher functions are still there, then the family should definitely have a say in whether the ventilator is removed (more likely, they should always have a say in whether a ventilator is removed).

 

[Shin]

Here’s a good sermon on the Catholic view.

Brain Dead: Dead Means the Soul Has Left the Body

 

[CDB1718]

Brain death is overdiagnosed. Doctors diagnose people who have minimal consciousness as being brain dead. When neither group is given therapy, it is no wonder that both look about the same a year or two out. What’s starting to come to light is that brain recovery is not time specific. In a lot of ailments, if a recovery is going to happen then it will happen early on. Early recovery is definitely a good sign, but spontaneous recoveries happen decades after traumatic brain injuries. A person with minimal consciousness is eligible for therapeutic services while a person diagnosed as vegetative is not eligible for them, so if recoveries are happening with no treatment, think of how much room we have for advancement in the treatment of vegetative and minimally conscience people!

Some organs can be harvested from a dead person but some require live harvesting. The heart must be beating and cannot be under anesthesia to successfully transplant it.

That means a person with minimal consciousness could be killed by the doctors cutting his heart out of his chest. Doctors justify this by saying he’d have no quality of life, that you wouldn’t care about these trivialities if it was you or your loved one receiving the transplant, that he is “already gone,” and/or that he’s going to die anyway and this way at least saves the life of another. When you can re-define when life begins to be convenient to modern medical science, what’s to stop them from re-defining when it ends?

Here’s one small sign of hope for the people whose loved ones are diagnosed as vegetative or minimally conscience. nytimes.com/2011/12/04/magazine/can-ambien-wake-minimally-conscious.html?pagewanted=all

 

[Erich]

I posted the following on another thread back in June 2010:

There have been several threads on the morality of organ donation, some even quoting the Catechism. That’s why I was as surprised as everyone else at a recent pro-life meeting at my church, when the following info was presented:

Facts about Being an Organ Donor

Do Your Organs Belong to the Government?

Clearly, this is a topic that the general public must continuously be made aware of before it happens to them!

Glad to see the WSJ starting to get on board.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

Regardless of what most people think, if one is diagnosed as “brain dead”, one would feel nothing when critical organs are harvested for transplanting.
The moral ethical benefits of organ transplants far overcomes the emotional reactions of a largely uninformed public to the practice. IMO, there should be legislation allowing Doctors in hospitals to harvest healthy organs from all deceased persons without obtaining permission of the next of kin. The only exceptions would be for legitimate religious reasons, like with the Jehovahs Witnesses or Orthodox Jews.

 

[CDB1718]

Regardless of what most people think, if one is diagnosed as “brain dead”, one would feel nothing when critical organs are harvested for transplanting.
The moral ethical benefits of organ transplants far overcomes the emotional reactions of a largely uninformed public to the practice. IMO, there should be legislation allowing Doctors in hospitals to harvest healthy organs from all deceased persons without obtaining permission of the next of kin. The only exceptions would be for legitimate religious reasons, like with the Jehovahs Witnesses or Orthodox Jews.

No one has a right to an organ transplant. It’s amazing that we’re able to do it, but that good does not excuse the immoral and unethical practices currently used for some organ harvesting. It also does not override the person’s rights to his own body and his family’s rights to his body in the case of his death. The doctors, hospitals, and other sick patients don’t have dibs on a person as soon as his brain function is perceived to be or is below 20%.

Your post is a scary rationale.

 

[King_Lazy]

Insofar as you have a duty to preserve your own life, you are probably similarly obligated to withdraw consent.

Well, if you have not given consent for organ donation, then I would assume that once you are declared to be brain dead, you would simply be disconnected from life support and actually die.

So if you are going to be disconnected from life support, is it not better to consent to have your organs given away? With regard to you, the result is the same - you will be disconnected from life support - you will die - whether you give your consent or not. But with regard to others, your death may save the life of another if you do give your consent.

I’m not saying that it is legitimate for one to be disconnected from life support if brain death is deemed to have occurred. I don’t know the Church’s teaching on this matter. What I am saying, however, is that since such a thing is expected to happen anyway regardless of its legitimacy and since you will be disconnected from life support and die regardless of whether you’ve consented to being an organ donor or not, you might as well consent and have your organs used to save the life of another.

 

[mdgspencer]

Personally, I am not frightened, because I never agreed to have my organs harvested.
I wonder though if there is an effective way to rescind the permission a person gave by checking off a box on some form he filled out? It would be unfortunate if there was no effective way to rescind permission for someone who changed his mind about this.

 

[King_Lazy]

Personally, I am not frightened, because I never agreed to have my organs harvested.
I wonder though if there is an effective way to rescind the permission a person gave by checking off a box on some form he filled out? It would be unfortunate if there was no effective way to rescind permission for someone who changed his mind about this.

Here in the UK, it’s as easy as telling them you no longer want to be on the list. It has been debated that the law should be changed so that everyone becomes a donor and has to actively opt out if they do not wish to have their organs used. I’m on the list because I would hope that should my life be tragically cut short, my body could be used to prolong somebody else’s life.

Okay, so, if you’re brain dead, I think we can assume that you are technically not dead. However, since you cannot breathe unassisted, as far as I am aware, there is no moral obligation for you to be kept alive. I think assisted breathing qualifies of “extraordinary means,” as opposed to providing food and drink.

So, from the Catholic perspective, what’s wrong with removing a person’s organs, with their consent, shortly before actual death? There is nothing wrong with voluntary donation, as far as I am aware, and so my answer would be, “probably nothing.”

 

[L_piperatus]

Personally, I am not frightened, because I never agreed to have my organs harvested.
I wonder though if there is an effective way to rescind the permission a person gave by checking off a box on some form he filled out? It would be unfortunate if there was no effective way to rescind permission for someone who changed his mind about this.

And I am no longer frightened because I took a trip to the Department of Motor Vehicles some 2 years ago, and I asked them to remove the “organ donor” designation from my driver’s license.

In theory, organ donation sounds good, but in practice, many doctors will not do their best to revive their patient, before declaring him “gone” and allowing his organs to be harvested. There was a study reported in a leading journal (New England J Med, if I’m not mistaken), in which pediatricians harvested the hearts of dozens of babies who went into cardio-pulmonary arrest, without ever trying to resuscitate these babies. And I could cite more horror stories, stories of unethical behavior.