Scenario(s) at the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ !

[Justice2006]

Scenario(s) at the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ !

To all who claimed to be the true followers of Christ (Christians) in their minds:

At the present there are thousands of different denominations, cults, sects in the Christiandom. If there are Churches meant only for Black people then there are other Churches exclusively for White people.
All of them claim to have guided/inspired by the same Holy Spirit/Ghost but with different versions of the Bibles which have different numbers of books in them and do go in different directions and blaspheme eachother if their opponent disagree with their specific “Biblical” doctrine.
On the other hand, there are people who claim doing “good” works, “mircales”, casting out devils etc.

If Jesus Christ arrived in this very period, what will happen?

Are all these thousands of different denominations, cults, sects going to forget their specific theologies/dogmas/doctrines and follow what Jesus Christ will ask them
or
they all will force Jesus Christ to follow their contradictory theologies/dogmas/doctrines otherwise they will excommunicate Jesus Christ from their Churches, as one oldest Church did with great theologian Martin Luther?

.​

 

[George_Waters]

Oh, I think a whole lot of Muslims would be really, really distressed!

 

[Justice2006]

Mr. Waters,
Don’t worry about the Muslims. If you are a Christ-follower in your mind, just answer, what will happen at the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ, from your unique perspective.

Moderator Note: Removed baiting text…

.

 

[Cyber_Knight]

Justice2006:

Mr. Waters,
Don’t worry about the Muslims. If you are a Christ-follower in your mind, just answer, what will happen at the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ, from your unique perspective or do you have to ask your infallible Papacy who doesn’t make mistake?

.

You indeed mess around the forum by thread that seem attacking christianity. Thats ok as far as you can keep on the track but seem you cannot. And you expect us to have intellectual discussion even with Bivar you dont want to have?

 

[George_Waters]

Justice2006:

Mr. Waters,
Don’t worry about the Muslims. If you are a Christ-follower in your mind, just answer, what will happen at the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ, from your unique perspective.
.

I did answer. You just don’t like my not-so-unique perspective. .

 

[Justice2006]

George Waters:

And once again you have shown your ignorance of Catholic teachings.

What ignorance I showed once again?

.

 

[George_Waters]

Justice2006:

What ignorance I showed once again?

.

Do your homework for yourself, you’ll figure it out!

 

[BryPGuy89]

Scenario(s) at the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ !

To all who claimed to be the true followers of Christ (Christians) in their minds:

At the present there are thousands of different denominations, cults, sects in the Christiandom. If there are Churches meant only for Black people then there are other Churches exclusively for White people.
All of them claim to have guided/inspired by the same Holy Spirit/Ghost but with different versions of the Bibles which have different numbers of books in them and do go in different directions and blaspheme eachother if their opponent disagree with their specific “Biblical” doctrine.
On the other hand, there are people who claim doing “good” works, “mircales”, casting out devils etc.

If Jesus Christ arrived in this very period, what will happen?

Are all these thousands of different denominations, cults, sects going to forget their specific theologies/dogmas/doctrines and follow what Jesus Christ will ask them
or
they all will force Jesus Christ to follow their contradictory theologies/dogmas/doctrines otherwise they will excommunicate Jesus Christ from their Churches, as one oldest Church did with great theologian Martin Luther?

.​

War between the denominations over the truth and then the ones left turn to do Gods will. Bad thought maybe, but I’m willing to say that the wills of man in the area of faith will not easily give into a melting pot of trust and love.

 

[George_Waters]

BryPGuy89:

War between the denominations over the truth and then the ones left turn to do Gods will. Bad thought maybe, but I’m willing to say that the wills of man in the area of faith will not easily give into a melting pot of trust and love.

You bring up a good point BryPGuy89.

I am curious how Islam will justify its current less-than-charatible view and treatment of the Jews when Jesus, who was a practicing Jew, returns to judge humanity?

 

[Justice2006]

George Waters:

You bring up a good point BryPGuy89.

I am curious how Islam will justify its current less-than-charatible view and treatment of the Jews when Jesus, who was a practicing Jew, returns to judge humanity?

Mr. Waters,

Lets first discuss what Christiandom will do, then we will see/discuss about Islam/Muslim reaction/attitude.

.

 

[George_Waters]

Justice2006:

Mr. Waters,

Lets first discuss what Christiandom will do, then we will see/discuss about Islam/Muslim reaction/attitude.

.

Fair enough. We will do as God wills. I imagine some will embrace the truth and some will rebel against Him. Just like all of humanity.

 

[Eden]

Justice2006:

as one oldest Church did with great theologian Martin Luther?

Great theologian?

By the way, your question doesn’t make sense. How would it be possible to excommunicate Christ from His Church? You really need to get a firmer understanding of the history of the Church before asking about the Second Coming in this manner. We are the only Church, the True Church, the Bride of Christ. We were founded in 33 A.D. The other churches you mention were not.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Scenario(s) at the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ !

To all who claimed to be … true followers of Christ …

If Jesus Christ arrived in this very period, what will happen?

​

Hello Justice2006;

The Catholic Church teaches that when Jesus returns He will judge the living and the dead…

**II. TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD **

678 Following in the steps of the prophets and John the Baptist, Jesus announced the judgment of the Last Day in his preaching.582 Then will the conduct of each one and the secrets of hearts be brought to light.583 Then will the culpable unbelief that counted the offer of God’s grace as nothing be condemned.584 Our attitude to our neighbor will disclose acceptance or refusal of grace and divine love.585 On the Last Day Jesus will say: "Truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me."586

679 Christ is Lord of eternal life. Full right to pass definitive judgment on the works and hearts of men belongs to him as redeemer of the world. He “acquired” this right by his cross. The Father has given “all judgment to the Son”.587 Yet the Son did not come to judge, but to save and to give the life he has in himself.588 By rejecting grace in this life, one already judges oneself, receives according to one’s works, and can even condemn oneself for all eternity by rejecting the Spirit of love.589

582 Cf. Dan 7:10; Joel 3-4; Mal 3:19; Mt 3:7-12.
583 Cf Mk 12:38-40; Lk 12:1-3; Jn 3:20-21; Rom 2:16; 1 Cor 4:5.
584 Cf. Mt 11:20-24; 12:41-42.
585 Cf. Mt 5:22; 7:1-5.
586 Mt 25:40.
587 Jn 5:22; cf. 5:27; Mt 25:31; Acts 10:42; 17:31; 2 Tim 4:1.
588 Cf. Lk 21:12; Jn 15:19-20.
589 Cf. Jn 3:18; 12:48; Mt 12:32; 1 Cor 3:12-15; Heb 6:4-6; 10:26-31.

Human beings really won’t be in a position to do much of anything except be judged. I think the scene will be much like Jesus describes in his parable of the sheep and the goats…

[32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
[33] and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.
[34] Then the King will say to those at his right hand, Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; [35] for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, [36] I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' [37] Then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
[38] And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
[39] And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’
[40] And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' [41] Then he will say to those at his left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
[42] for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
[43] I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
[44] Then they also will answer, Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' [45] Then he will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’
[46] And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Mt. 25:32-46)

I don’t think the Lord Jesus is going to be too concerned with the labels the world has used to fragment his Church.

(Continued on next post.)​

 

[Robert_in_SD]

(Continued from my Last Post)

Dear Justice 2006;

Your post assumes that the Catholic Church is just one of many denominations among christian “sects” and “cults.” This is not the case. Catholics believe that Christ founded a visible church with Peter and the other Apostles as the visible leaders. These leaders passed their authority to successors down through the ages to the present leaders of the Catholic Church.

The question begged by your OP is to what extent can everyone be “right,” when there is such divergence in doctrine. You are correct in assuming that there can be only one truth. However, there can be degrees of conforming to truth that are evident in the various reformed christian churches. Catholics believe the fullness of truth resides in the Catholic Church. However, that does not invalidate the doctrines of all other christian churches, to the extent that they conform with Catholic doctrine. (Examples of this - almost all christian churches believe in the trinity.) Indeed, these people are members of Christ’s church through baptism, although imperfectly joined. Similarly, it is not doctrine that saves, but a life lived in faith, hope, and works of charity that will save…

**Who belongs to the Catholic Church? **

836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation."320

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’"321

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

320 LG 13.
321 LG 14.
322 LG 15.
323 UR 3.
324 Paul VI, Discourse, December 14, 1975; cf. UR 13-18.

So, the short answer to your question is… Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead. Being a Catholic in name only will not save you, but being a non-Catholic will not necessarily condemn you either. Again, it will all depend upon how each person responded in their life to God’s grace.

-Peace

 

[Justice2006]

Robert in SD:

So, the short answer to your question is… Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead. Being a Catholic in name only will not save you, but being a non-Catholic will not necessarily condemn you either. Again, it will all depend upon how each person responded in their life to God’s grace.

Mr. Robert in SD,

The question is not what is your/your Church’s attitude towards other sects and denominations of Christiandom…and how you percieve their doctrines/dogmas.

The question is what will you do when Jesus is arrived and if he claim/preach *other than * what you/your Church preaches/believes for centuries?

For example, you said that almost all denominations believe in Trinity, now:

Lets say Jesus Christ tells you that “**there is no such a thing as Trinity ** because it is you people who concocted this strange view from your own and attributed to me because you don’t have any reliable authentic teachings of me…”

And if Jesus demands from you to submit to the ONE who is “greater than him” and the ONE who “sent him” because Jesus and the One who Who “sent him” is not the same person but distinct things, [because one is Eternal and Immortal and Invisible and the other is a person who had a beginning as he was born at a specific time and used to eat, go to call of nature… and pray to his God, used very harsh words for his enemies and apparently “died”] and Jesus was “approved by Him” and from WHOSE fingure, Jesus used “to cast out devils”… and some “mircales, signs and wonders” were actually done by the ONE who “sent him”, through Jesus.

Then…what you will do? Will you give up your Church dogmas/views?

Or will you demand Jesus to submit to the Catholic church dogmas otherwise you will excommunicate him because obviously he will be preaching something that will contradict dogmas/doctrines of so many sects/denominations. Because your all contradictory teachings cannot be right at the same time. Hence you all have your own different churches.

If your contradictory teachings has caused the learned/spiritual leaders/priests/founders of your denominations to form/establish seperate churches and ministeries, let alone ordinary non-practicing “christians”, then do you really think that Jesus will not form/establish his own Unique Ministry based on his own pure non-compromising teachings, as he has used very harsh words (“woes”) even for those Scribes and the Pahrisees who were doctors of Law and honorable people aming the Jewish society of his first coming?

Are you saying that Jesus will compromise with all different views of your churches yet he will have his own different Church which does not teach what you all thousands of sects teach?

How far Jesus will agree with different views of your thousands of Churches?

If you say to Jesus: "Well. you are wrong! because Catholic dogma is: “The father, you and the Holy Spirit are ONE, though different personalities and though the Trinity verse was a later insertion/interpolation in John’s epistle, though we don’t know who inserted into the the text. But, you are wrong in saying that there is ONLY ONE GOD and our Catholic dogma of Trinity is right, although we don’t even know who wrote all the four so-called “canonical” gospels beause their authors are still UNKNOWN even to our Bible scholars”.

Then what would be Jesus’ answer to you?

Now as to your Church’s attitude towards all other non-Catholic denominations, are you ready to accept them as Christians or can you adopt their views and yet remain a Cathlic at the same time? What was the reason Martin Luther was officially thrown out from your Church, if there was not a real dispute theologically?

Your saying “Being a Catholic in name only will not save you, but being a non-Catholic will not necessarily condemn you either” sounds beautifull on the face but in reality it is not what your Church really believes. Your diplomatic rhetoric is not a right answer because you and all other non-catholics cannot be right at the same time (theologically), hence no denomination is ready to give up his ministry and join his opponent’s sects. Are you and all other Protestants willing to merge in one denomination by agreeing on only one view by gettting rid of contradictory teachngs?​

 

[LilyM]

Justice my dear friend, good to hear from you again.

Let me ask you some questions: what will happen to you if you die and find out that the Mohammed you follow was indeed a false and deluded warmonger and whoremonger who wrote down Satan’s words rather than Allah’s in order to claim special sexual privileges for himself and his followers and to justify his clear thirst for blood?

And what will happen to you if you die and find out that God out of his infinite love and mercy for humans did indeed take on (as he is well able to) human form in the person of Jesus to suffer like us and with us and to give meaning to our own suffering?

Salaam anyway. Look forward to hearing your response

 

[Justice2006]

LilyM:

Justice my dear friend, good to hear from you again.

Let me ask you some questions: what will happen to you if you die and find out that the Mohammed you follow was indeed a false and deluded warmonger and whoremonger who wrote down Satan’s words rather than Allah’s in order to claim special sexual privileges for himself and his followers and to justify his clear thirst for blood?

Ms LilyM,

But there is a flaw in your argument which you did not realise.

Lets say your mother is indeed a pious woman. But somehow I have no idea about the piousness of your mother. All I know about your mother is either from her personal enemy or from a source which does not give the whole picture of your mother’s life but some *out of context * description about your mother from unreliable sources. Now simply based on your mother’s enemy’s information and other out of context unreliable descriptions, am I truly in a position to claim/conclude that your mother is not a pious woman? And then ask people to accept my claim/conclusion, as if it is a real picture of your mother’s life. And then if people don’t accept what I claim, would it be fair if I say to the people “what if you die and found out that LilyM’s mother is not a pious woman but she was …?”

Learned people will tell me “The question of LilyM’s mother not being a pious person only arises if you really know her directly who she was or from a reliable unbias source. But since you don’t know, as your source of knowledge is heavily unreliable, thus your assumption of “what if LilyM’s mother was so and so…” makes no sense because you are not entitiled to use such assumption because you have no foundation at all to use it”

No?

LilyM:

And what will happen to you if you die and find out that God out of his infinite love and mercy for humans did indeed take on (as he is well able to) human form in the person of Jesus to suffer like us and with us and to give meaning to our own suffering?

Salaam anyway. Look forward to hearing your response

Here too, your logic has no foundation. If a Hindu uses your logic he can ask you a counter-question :

“And what will happen to you if you die and find out that God out of his infinite love and mercy for not just humans but animals and every living thing did indeed incarnate (as He is well able to) in not just in one human form of a particular man named Jesus but form of all human beings, all animals and all other living creatures and suffered like us, like all animals and like all every other living thing and take birth and did die whenever a human or an animal or any living creature die to feel what it is to be every individual human being, every individual animal and every living creature beause every human, every animal soul and every living soul is not the same and everyone will have a different feeling at his/her/it’s birth/during life/sufferings /death ?
How can you say that what Jesus suffered is exact same sufferings all would have if all are put on the cross?”

Now I will add my questions too to a Hindu’s question:

"Why God only select His “begotton” son to “die a merciless death”? If you say Jesus death was not merciless. Then, was his death peacefull? If you say yes, then his death is meaningless because he did not really suffered. If you say no he did suffer, then your God is not a God of Love.

Why God of Love, is so merciless that he sacrificed His own and only “begotten” Son? What kind of a love is this?

If you say: The Son (Jesus) himself was God, then do you mean God committed suicide? Because in order to die a person he required God’s invervention. No one can die without God’s Will and permission. So, did God die with His own hands? IF not then how God(Jesus) die?

If you say *The Son * was not God, when he dieD. Then I say: what it is to you if a man died on the Corss? Many godly men, before and after Jesus, have died/suffered in this world. Jews used to kill their Prophets. Then what will happen to your idea of “paying the price of your sins”? [the sins that you actually did not commit].
In your theological reasoning, can a single man’s death, pay the price of atleast your and all Catholics’ sins, if not all other Protestants’ sins…or are they too and all Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists included? or atleast can you include their non-catholic innocent babies who die in their infancy who were never baptised??

So, Jesus must die as a God, no? But then, does it makes sense in saying “God was dead”? Do you really believe in a “Dead God”?

Now, I look forward to hearing your response.​

.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Mr. Justice, you are dancing around the question.

If YOU expect us to give you answers as to what we would do as Christians if God told us we were “wrong”, then you had better be able to give US answers as to what YOU would do as a Muslim if God told YOU that YOU were 'wrong".

(Just in case you wondered, it is “Ms.” Tantum Ergo, of the feminine persuasion).

 

[LilyM]

Justice, very simply ANY religious belief is irrelevant, if not actually indefensible, from the standpoint of human logic.

It is pointless to say as you do that it is logical only to believe in a single God like your Allah who created all of us out of nothing. It is illogical to believe that any God would choose to reveal an unerring book to an illiterate Arab camel driver. It is illogical also that any omnipotent god would restricts himself only to a form (or no-form) that humans can comprehend, thus you deny to your Allah his Godly power to subvert the laws of physics and nature.

It is equally illogical to believe in 33,000 separate but linked Gods like Hindus do because they need a god for every occasion - such very limited Gods run contrary to our human perception of what it would mean to be God (or even a God).

So PLEASE stop telling me that Christianity is more illogical than Islam unless you want to be laughed at by myself and everyone else who both understands human logic and understands that faith is just that - it’s NEVER completely logical. Very simply there is precious little strict reasoning behind humans choosing any religion at all, let alone one religion over another. You’re making yourself ridiculous by saying that there is.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Scenario(s) at the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ !

To all who claimed to be the true followers of Christ (Christians) in their minds:

At the present there are thousands of different denominations, cults, sects in the Christiandom. If there are Churches meant only for Black people then there are other Churches exclusively for White people.
All of them claim to have guided/inspired by the same Holy Spirit/Ghost but with different versions of the Bibles which have different numbers of books in them and do go in different directions and blaspheme eachother if their opponent disagree with their specific “Biblical” doctrine.
On the other hand, there are people who claim doing “good” works, “mircales”, casting out devils etc.

If Jesus Christ arrived in this very period, what will happen?

Are all these thousands of different denominations, cults, sects going to forget their specific theologies/dogmas/doctrines and follow what Jesus Christ will ask them

or
they all will force Jesus Christ to follow their contradictory theologies/dogmas/doctrines otherwise they will excommunicate Jesus Christ from their Churches, as one oldest Church did with great theologian Martin Luther?

.

​

To answer your question - as Jesus Christ is God, ISTM that His Coming will not be something for which one can prepare by anticipating the details of it. One can only be ready for Him when He does come.​

And when He comes, there will be more important matters to discuss than the relative qualities of this or that church or religion.

He is not another man, but God. Therefore, He is numinous ##