Schismatic Worship

[TantumErgo90]

I was reading an article in Latin Mass Magazine and it said that Catholics are forbidden by the Holy Office to pray with heretics and schismatics. Well, a few weeks ago (before I read the article) I participated in an Orthodox Divine Liturgy (I didn’t receive communion, but they offered me unconsecrated bread and wine which I did eat), was this a sin? I sung along with my friend there and it was a good experience. Is this allowed?

 

[palmas85]

I was reading an article in Latin Mass Magazine and it said that Catholics are forbidden by the Holy Office to pray with heretics and schismatics. Well, a few weeks ago (before I read the article) I participated in an Orthodox Divine Liturgy (I didn’t receive communion, but they offered me unconsecrated bread and wine which I did eat), was this a sin? I sung along with my friend there and it was a good experience. Is this allowed?

Sure if you want to be in the Orthodox Church it is fine and dandy. Heck in the ecumenical spirit it is probably preferred that you do this rather than attend a Catholic Mass. Why not?

 

[Nick]

I was reading an article in Latin Mass Magazine and it said that Catholics are forbidden by the Holy Office to pray with heretics and schismatics. Well, a few weeks ago (before I read the article) I participated in an Orthodox Divine Liturgy (I didn’t receive communion, but they offered me unconsecrated bread and wine which I did eat), was this a sin? I sung along with my friend there and it was a good experience. Is this allowed?

I suggest that you search the Ask An Apologist forum to get an answer for this. If you dont find it submit a new question.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I was reading an article in Latin Mass Magazine and it said that Catholics are forbidden by the Holy Office to pray with heretics and schismatics. Well, a few weeks ago (before I read the article) I participated in an Orthodox Divine Liturgy (I didn’t receive communion, but they offered me unconsecrated bread and wine which I did eat), was this a sin? I sung along with my friend there and it was a good experience. Is this allowed?

I think there was such a rule centruries back, but it was repealed before my time. I wouldn’t rely on Latin Mass for such information; they are not an objective source. I attended non-Catholic services over fifty years ago with my pastor’s permission. Sixty years ago the priest at my grandfather’s funeral invited my grandmother’s cousin, a Baptist minister, to join him in the graveside prayers.

Acutally there is no rule against one receiving communion in an Orthodox Church, but we are asked to refrain in respect to the Orthodox rule against it. Sharing the unconsecrated, but blessed, bread and wine seems a good practice.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<I participated in an Orthodox Divine Liturgy (I didn’t receive communion, but they offered me unconsecrated bread and wine which I did eat), was this a sin?>>

And Pope Benedict did exactly the same thing this summer when he visited the Ecumenical Patriarch. If you sinned, then so did he in doing the same thing.

OTOH–if he didn’t then you didn’t either.

Don’t worry about it.

BTW–I pray you enjoyed your experience of Orthodox worship.

 

[BobP123]

Sharing the unconsecrated, but blessed, bread and wine seems a good practice.

Personally I would have problems with this if done during Mass. Would be sending the wrong message, in my opinion.

However, I see the Orthodox as a valid Catholic rite which can fulfill your Sunday obligation given the right conditions per Canon Law. Reception of communion (consecrated or otherwise) is not required for fulfillment of the Sunday obligation.

 

[Sure]

Personally I would have problems with this if done during Mass. Would be sending the wrong message, in my opinion.

However, I see the Orthodox as a valid Catholic rite which can fulfill your Sunday obligation given the right conditions per Canon Law. Reception of communion (consecrated or otherwise) is not required for fulfillment of the Sunday obligation.

The sharing of unconsecrated bread and wine is a long standing eastern tradition. It is also practiced by the Eastern Catholic Churches. The idea (I believe) is that you can take it to others as a reminder of the divine liturgy. But I believe it is put out for people to take after Mass.

And I agree with your statement on the right conditions under canon law.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<Reception of communion (consecrated or otherwise) is not required for fulfillment of the Sunday obligation.>>

BobP, what would you mean by “unconsecrated communion,” as you seem to be implying here?

 

[Genesis315]

That rule must have been repealed a long time ago. Pope Leo XIII himself established the Confraternity of Compassion where Catholics and non-Catholics could pray together for unity–and that was late 19th or early 20th century.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

. …However, I see the Orthodox as a valid Catholic rite which can fulfill your Sunday obligation given the right conditions per Canon Law. Reception of communion (consecrated or otherwise) is not required for fulfillment of the Sunday obligation.

I don’t think an Orthodox Divine Liturgy satisfies your Sunday obligation under current Law.

 

[Sure]

I don’t think an Orthodox Divine Liturgy satisfies your Sunday obligation under current Law.

I think this is correct.

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2005/03/orthodox_liturg.html

 

[elzoro]

That rule must have been repealed a long time ago. Pope Leo XIII himself established the Confraternity of Compassion where Catholics and non-Catholics could pray together for unity–and that was late 19th or early 20th century.

For the accurate answer see the article in Latin Mass Magazine(use the thread) called “The Holy Office of Worship with Non-Catholics from 1622 to 1939”

latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_main.html

 

[Genesis315]

For the accurate answer see the article in Latin Mass Magazine(use the thread) called “The Holy Office of Worship with Non-Catholics from 1622 to 1939”

latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_main.html

It must have been re-established then after the death Pope Leo XIII. I wonder if the Confraternity was ever abolished?

newadvent.org/cathen/15132a.htm

 

[elzoro]

It must have been re-established then after the death Pope Leo XIII. I wonder if the Confraternity was ever abolished?

newadvent.org/cathen/15132a.htm

Well, Pope Leo XIII died in June 0f 1903, so if it did happen, it was through a different Pope.

 

[elzoro]

That rule must have been repealed a long time ago. Pope Leo XIII himself established the Confraternity of Compassion where Catholics and non-Catholics could pray together for unity–and that was late 19th or early 20th century.

Well it wasn’t Leo XIII since he died in 1903. Here’s the list of Popes after him. who did it then?:
St. Pius X (1903-1914)
Benedict XV (1914-1922)
Pius XI (1922-1939)
Pius XII (1939-1958)
Blessed John XXIII (1958-1963)
Paul VI (1963-1978)
John Paul I (1978)
John Paul II (1978-2005)
Benedict XVI (2005-)

The best candidates begin with Blessed John XXIII, right??

 

[BobP123]

I don’t think an Orthodox Divine Liturgy satisfies your Sunday obligation under current Law.

Sure it does.

Can. 844 §2 Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage commends it, and provided the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, Christ’s faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a catholic minister, may lawfully receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

Can. 1248 §1 The obligation of assisting at Mass is satisfied wherever Mass is celebrated **in a catholic rite **either on a holyday itself or on the evening of the previous day.

§2 If it is impossible to assist at a eucharistic celebration, either because no sacred minister is available or for some other grave reason, the faithful are strongly recommended to take part in a liturgy of the Word, if there be such in the parish church or some other sacred place, which is celebrated in accordance with the provisions laid down by the diocesan Bishop; or to spend an appropriate time in prayer, whether personally or as a family or, as occasion presents, in a group of families.

 

[BobP123]

<<Reception of communion (consecrated or otherwise) is not required for fulfillment of the Sunday obligation.>>

BobP, what would you mean by “unconsecrated communion,” as you seem to be implying here?

You’re right. I worded it poorly. Communion, by definition, has always been consecrated.

 

[mgy100]

It is just blessed bread. It isn’t Communion.

 

[palmas85]

Sure it does.

Only in dire situations, emergencies or when no Catholic rite is available at all. If there is a Catholic Mass or communion service available, and you decide, hey, I’ll just go to the go to the Orthodox Church, you are wrong.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Sure it does.

I don’t see anything there about an Orhtodox Divine Liturgy fulfilling the Sunday obligation.

Canon 844 refers to sacraments, not the Sunday obligation

Canon 1248 - 1 says in a catholic rite - Orthodox is not Catholic.

Canon 1248 -2 recommends other prayer if one cannot attend a Catholic rite, but does not oblige it.

If a Catholic rite is not available one is excused from the obligation.