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Oecumenius comments on the meaning of ‘in the spirit’: The words I was in the Spirit indicates that he saw a vision which was not perceptible by the senses nor seen with physical ears or eyes, but with prophetic sense. Oecumenius Commentary on Revelation] ,] 6th Century

Tertullian points out that St. John saw in the spirit what he could not see through the corporeal eyes: There is the selfsame difference in respect of the soul’s corporeality, which is (perhaps) invisible to the flesh, but perfectly visible to the spirit. Thus John, being “in the Spirit” of God, beheld plainly the souls of the martyrs (Rev. 6:9). Tertullian Treatise on the Soul Chapter 8] 155-225AD

Apringius indicates that John was only in the spirit, and not body: He says that he was taken up in the spirit, that is, that he was raised up to the secret things which he was to speak. Moreover, he says that he did not enter into the heights of Heaven in a bodily manner, but that he entered in the spirit, recalling this word, “No one has ascended into Heaven except He who has descended, namely the Son of Man, who is in Heaven.(John:13)” The holy apostle Paul also says that he was taken up, but in what way? He says, “Whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know, God knows.(2Cor. 12:2)” He writes that he had been taken up into ecstasy, in the spirit. But since the day of the Lord is mentioned in this passage, when he says that he had been taken up in the spirit, he is indicating that he had been cleansed of any work of a profane kind. For, on the Lord’s Day the apostle could only devote himself to divine things and holy duties… Concerning the preachers of the gospel, it is written, “Cry aloud, do not cease, lift up your voice as a trumpet.(Is. 58:1)” And concerning the words ‘behind me,” the prophet said, “And they shall hear a voice from behind of one teaching.(Is. 30:21)” Let all humanity be exalted to whatever degree of sanctity, in comparison to the holy acts of God and to the divine words, it can by no means ever stand as an equal before his presence and face. But our flesh, weighed down by a certain weakness, is instructed, as it were, from behind by the words of God. Therefore, in saying ‘behind me’ he indicates the weakness of his human nature. Apringius of Beja Commentary on Revelation] 6th Century
 
Moses on the otherhand had a unique relationship with God. God talked to him on a regular basis. Moses wrote down what had been divinely revealed to him from God, and also what happened in his life. Moses most likely was not taken up in the spirit the way John was, and even St. Paul was in 2Cor. 12:2. In all three cases God revealed to them in a miraculous way, but I imagine the experience was different. St. John had a unique relationship with God the Word Incarnate, which is something that Moses did not experience since he lived before the Incarnation.
 
Copland

I cannot thank you enough for your ideas and help!!!

I hope to come back to those first questions. However, I have a pressing question. I have had it for some months.

Is the light of faith coming from God’s love?

Is light to be understood as coming from “God is a consuming fire”?

God is love.

In Zeph. 1: 18 "by the fire of His ‘qin’ah’ "

Is this zeal or jealousy?

Often I have been taught that light is for faith and understanding.

I now wonder if light is more for charity than for faith.

Again, I find it most difficult to phrase my questions, sorry!
 
The question that I was trying to ask in the above post:

DOES THE LIGHT COME FROM GOD’S BUNRING LOVE?
I am sorry about saying i poorly.
 
Song of Songs 8: 6 Set me as a seal on your heart, as a seal on your arm; For stern as death is love, relentless as the nether is devotion; its flames are a blazing fire. 7 Deep waters cannot quench love, nor floods sweep it away. Were one to offer all he owns to purchase love, he would be roundly mocked.
 
Jim_Baur said:
Copland

I cannot thank you enough for your ideas and help!!!

I hope to come back to those first questions. However, I have a pressing question. I have had it for some months.

Is the light of faith coming from God’s love?

Is light to be understood as coming from “God is a consuming fire”?

God is love.

In Zeph. 1: 18 "by the fire of His ‘qin’ah’ "

Is this zeal or jealousy?

Often I have been taught that light is for faith and understanding.

I now wonder if light is more for charity than for faith.

Again, I find it most difficult to phrase my questions, sorry!
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Jim, As usual I consult the Church Fathers and Doctors of the Church when I look for answers concerning the Faith, so let me use them to answer your question.

It seems that God being Fire refers to judgment.
For as, in the Old Testament, God is for this reason called Fire, that fear may be struck into the hearts of a sinful people, by suggesting to them a Judge; Novation Treatise on the Trinity Chapter 7]

For “our God is a consuming fire,” by whom all the material of wickedness is done away. Gregory of Nyssa Against Eunomius Bk. 5 Verse 4]

For our God is a consuming Fire, and a Fire buring up the ungodly. St. Gregory Nazianzen On Pentecost Verse 10]
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Also, remember that Jesus is refered to as the “Sun of Justice” in Malachi 4:2. Here is my translation from the Greek Septuagint: 4:2 And, to you, the ones fearing my Name, the Sun of Justice shall arise, and healing shall be in His wings. And you shall come forth and shall leap as calves let loose from bonds.
Also, here are some quotes from my commentary that I did on Malachi earlier this year.
The moon is understood to be the Church, because she has no light of her own, but is lighted by the only-begotten Son of God, who in many places of holy Scripture is allegorically called the Sun. St. Augustine On the Psalms Psalm 11 Verse 3]

When the Lord hath come, and our Sun is risen, not the sun which is seen with the eye, and “riseth upon the good and the evil,(Matt. 5:45)” but That whereof is said, To you that hear God, “the Sun of Righteousness shall rise, and healing in His wings;” and of whom the proud and wicked shall hereafter say, “The light of righteousness hath not shined unto us, and the sun of righteousness rose not upon us.(Wisdom 5:6)” This shall be our summer. St. Augustine On the Psalms Psalm 148 Verse 10]
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Since God the Father is Fire, allegorically speaking, then the Son is the Light that shines from the Fire. The Church is allegorically spoken of as the moon in Scripture, and the moon reflects the light of Christ. And that light is the light that St. John said in his Gospel as “The true Light, which enlightens every man that comes into the world.(John 1:9)”

.
 
If I have understood, when Jesus’s says He is the light of the world, His light is not LOVE.

In Luke 11: 33 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth [it] in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.

This light is not LOVE.

Have I understood?

My goodness, I want to thank you for your time, knowledge and energy, Copland!
 
Jim,
My goodness, I want to thank you for your time, knowledge and energy, Copland!
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No, I want to thank you for allowing me to help you. I am honored just to be able to help in an area that I have a passion for.
If I have understood, when Jesus’s says He is the light of the world, His light is not LOVE.
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In Luke 11: 33 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth [it] in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.
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This light is not LOVE.
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Have I understood?
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Now, if we examine this further I am sure we can relate “love” into it as a factor. And I will do a little research myself to see how it can be applied. I am not saying that Light is not Love, since God is Light, and God is Love, and God is a consuming fire. Let us just meditate on it and put it under the theological microscope, and we can draw a conclusion. Keep in mind, I am not an original thinker, but I can say that I know where to find my answers with a little time.

Again, thank you for your humility and kindness. And feel free to ask for all the help you need or desire.

I will get back to the subject later tonight.
 
I beg of you, please do not laugh.

The light is God’s love, I believe.

The Holy Spirit is God’s love.

The Holy Spiritis fire or flames, I believe.

I beg you not to laugh.

I cannot recall one passage at this time that joins love and the Holy Spirit.

HELP, HELP, Help, and more HELP!!!
 
Jim_Baur said:
I beg of you, please do not laugh.

The light is God’s love, I believe.

The Holy Spirit is God’s love.

The Holy Spiritis fire or flames, I believe.

I beg you not to laugh.

I cannot recall one passage at this time that joins love and the Holy Spirit.

HELP, HELP, Help, and more HELP!!!
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Jim,
No need to worry about me laughing,at all. I can see your point, and I agree to some extent, as far as, the light being God’s love maybe as a secondary sense and not the primary. I believe there is a connection, and I believe that it can be defined with some time applied to it.
 
Romans 5: 5… and this hope is not deceptive, because the love of God has been poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit which has been give us.
 
I have another question.

In the III queston 60. 3 of St. Thomas’ Summa, he teaches something like this: A sacrament is a sign that takes in past, present and future in its signification. It bears in itself the promise of eternal life to come.

Question: how are the sacraments related to eschatology and or the anagogical sense of scripture?

Also, which sacraments are related to the last four things?

Thanks!!!
 
I do not know if this is a little correct or 100% wrong.

Baptism is related to resurrection.

Anointing of the sick is related to resurrection.

Confirmation is related to resurrection and judgment.

Penance is related to judgment.

Holy Communion is related to the Lamb’s Supper.

Matrimony is related to Lamb’s Wedding Feast.

Priesthood is related to Christ.

Well, these are just some ideas.

I would think that they are all interrelated.

I could sure use some suggestions and help.
 
Concerning the Holy Spirit–fire–Love

The pillar of fire and the pillar of smoke seem to be important to this idea.
 
Copland

I am still pondering my questions concerning the Tree of Life.

I am still pondering your answers and comments on the Tree of Life.

Again, I want to thank you for your help!!!
 
To those that wish to help: Biblically speaking, how are Love and Faith related?

THANKS!!!
 
What is the Heavenly Liturgy?

Or, how do we understand the Heavenly Liturgy?

Do all the sacraments participate in the Heavenly Liturgy?

Or, how do all the sacraments participate in the Heavenly Liturgy?

As always, I want to thank you for your help?
 
Concerning the Tree of Life, is it grace?

Or, is it the indewelling of the Holy Spirit?
 
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