Scholars Corner

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I am having trouble phrasing the question. I hope you are patient with me, thank you.

First, I need you to forgive my lack of Greek and Hebrew, thanks!

Concerning the “abyss or deep,” the “bathos” and “abyssos,” is it the same?

I am wondering if it the judgment, wisdom, knowledge of God. I am wondering if it is not the judgment and wisdom of God experienced differently by different creatures.

The Devil experiences God Jugdment and the saint experience His loving wisdom.

The Deep/Abyss/Wisdom
Genesis 1: 1 In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, 2 the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss (teh•home’), while a mighty wind swept over the waters.

Genesis 49: 25 The God of your father, who helps you, God Almighty, who blesses you,
with the blessings of the heavens above, the blessings of the abyss (teh•home’) that crouches below, The blessings of breasts and womb, 26 the blessings of fresh grain and blossoms, The blessings of the everlasting mountains, the delights of the eternal hills.

Deuteronomy 33: 13 Of Joseph he said: "Blessed by the LORD is his land with the best of the skies above and of the abyss (teh•home’) crouching beneath; 14 With the best of the produce of the year, and the choicest sheaves of the months; 15 With the finest gifts of the age-old mountains and the best from the timeless hills; 16 With the best of the earth and its fullness, and the favor of him who dwells in the bush.”

Psalm 36: 6 LORD, your love reaches to heaven; your fidelity, to the clouds. 7 Your justice is like the highest mountains; your judgments, like the mighty deep (teh•home’); all living creatures you sustain, LORD.

Sirach 24: 22 All this is true of the book of the Most High’s covenant, the law which Moses commanded us as an inheritance for the community of Jacob. 23 It overflows, like the Pishon, with wisdom-- like the Tigris in the days of the new fruits. 24 It runs over, like the Euphrates, with understanding, like the Jordan at harvest time. 25 It sparkles like the Nile with knowledge, like the Gihon at vintage time. 26 The first man never finished comprehending wisdom, nor will the last succeed in fathoming her. 27 For deeper than the sea are her thoughts; her counsels, than the great abyss.

Romans 11: 33 Oh, the depth (bathos) of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and how unsearchable his ways! 34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord or who has been his counselor?”

I Corinthians 2: 9 But as it is written: “What eye has not seen, and ear has not heard, and
what has not entered the human heart, what God has prepared for those who love him,” 10 this God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths (bathos) of God.

for the Pit or “abyssos” Revelation 9: 1; 20: 1, et cetera.

Well, if you can give some ideas and help, thank you!
 
Here is a list of the passages that have caused by confusion.

The Deep/Abyss/Wisdom
Genesis 1: 1 In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, 2 the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss (teh•home’), while a mighty wind swept over the waters.

Genesis 49: 25 The God of your father, who helps you, God Almighty, who blesses you,
with the blessings of the heavens above, the blessings of the abyss (teh•home’) that crouches below, The blessings of breasts and womb, 26 the blessings of fresh grain and blossoms, The blessings of the everlasting mountains, the delights of the eternal hills.

Deuteronomy 33: 13 Of Joseph he said: "Blessed by the LORD is his land with the best of the skies above and of the abyss (teh•home’) crouching beneath; 14 With the best of the produce of the year, and the choicest sheaves of the months; 15 With the finest gifts of the age-old mountains and the best from the timeless hills; 16 With the best of the earth and its fullness, and the favor of him who dwells in the bush.”

Psalm 36: 6 LORD, your love reaches to heaven; your fidelity, to the clouds. 7 Your justice is like the highest mountains; your judgments, like the mighty deep (teh•home’); all living creatures you sustain, LORD.

Sirach 24: 22 All this is true of the book of the Most High’s covenant, the law which Moses commanded us as an inheritance for the community of Jacob. 23 It overflows, like the Pishon, with wisdom-- like the Tigris in the days of the new fruits. 24 It runs over, like the Euphrates, with understanding, like the Jordan at harvest time. 25 It sparkles like the Nile with knowledge, like the Gihon at vintage time. 26 The first man never finished comprehending wisdom, nor will the last succeed in fathoming her. 27 For deeper than the sea are her thoughts; her counsels, than the great abyss.

Matthew 13: 5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness (bathos) of earth: And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

St. Luke 5: 4 Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep (bathos), and let down your nets for a draught.

Romans 11: 33 Oh, the depth (bathos) of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and how unsearchable his ways! 34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord or who has been his counselor?”

I Corinthians 2: 9 But as it is written: “What eye has not seen, and ear has not heard, and
what has not entered the human heart, what God has prepared for those who love him,” 10 this God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths (bathos) of God.
 
Revelation 2: 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths (bathos) of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Revelation 9: 1 Then the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. It was given the key for the passage to the abyss (abussos). 2 It opened the passage to the abyss, and smoke came up out of the passage like smoke from a huge furnace. The sun and the air were darkened by the smoke from the passage.

Revelation 11: 7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the abyss will wage war against them and conquer them and kill them.

Revelation 17: 8 The beast that you saw existed once but now exists no longer. It will come up from the abyss (abussos) and is headed for destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world shall be amazed when they see the beast, because it existed once but exists no longer, and yet it will come again.

Revelation 20 1 Then I saw an angel come down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the abyss and a heavy chain. 2 He seized the dragon, the ancient serpent, which is the Devil or Satan, and tied it up for a thousand years 3 and threw it into the abyss, which he locked over it and sealed, so that it could no longer lead the nations astray until the thousand years are completed. After this, it is to be released for a short time. 4 Then I saw thrones; those who sat on them were entrusted with judgment. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image nor had accepted its mark on their foreheads or hands. They came to life and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Revelation 17: 8 The beast that you saw existed once but now exists no longer. It will come up from the abyss and is headed for destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world shall be amazed when they see the beast, because it existed once but exists no longer, and yet it will come again.

Thanks!
 
COPLAND3

In Revelation 6: 5 the word “zugos” is used.

Here some translated it as pair of scales.

In the other five times that it appears in the N. T. it is translated yoke.

What is your judgment?

Also, if it is yoke, how is this tied to Jesus’ yoke that is easy?

I hope you see this.

I hope some scholar comes to my help!
 
Seamus_Sully said:
COPLAND3

In Revelation 6: 5 the word “zugos” is used.

Here some translated it as pair of scales.

In the other five times that it appears in the N. T. it is translated yoke.

What is your judgment?

Also, if it is yoke, how is this tied to Jesus’ yoke that is easy?

I hope you see this.

I hope some scholar comes to my help!
Click to expand...
Hi Seamus,
Yoke, scales, it’s all a matter of balance.
The scales balance a test mass against a mass to be assessed.
The yoke balances two loads against each other, to make an easy lift.
The chemists’ beam balance is very similar in structure to the two bucket beam yoke.
 
VPT

Thanks!

Any ideas as to why the English translation is scale here instead of yoke?

I ask because the four riders have some similarity to Christ.

The rider of the white horse seems closer than the others.

Well, the entire book is tough.

Again, thanks!
 
Seamus_Sully said:
VPT

Thanks!

Any ideas as to why the English translation is scale here instead of yoke?

I ask because the four riders have some similarity to Christ.

The rider of the white horse seems closer than the others.

Well, the entire book is tough.

Again, thanks!
Click to expand...
Hi Seamus.
The essence of a yoke is balance, whether it be to balance two loads on to the shoulders of a carrier, or to share the traction force between two oxen.
A well made yoke will match the balance point of the yoke to the bearing point of the shoulders, and that will maximize comfort to the bearer.
Likewise, a yoke for a pair of oxen will be deliberately unbalanced to match the difference in strength of the oxen.
Thus the balance of the yoke depends on matching the yoke to its bearer(s).
That aside, If a translator finds the word, for which the common translation is ‘balance’, then, if not understanding the context, then he might translate as scales, rather than yoke, or more correctly balance beam.
 
I am taking some of the difficult symbols in the Apocalypse and trying to join them to the best biblical examples that I can. Here are just two or three.

Rev 4: 16 Four beast full of eyes—best biblical suggestions–
Code: 
  1. angels from Isaiah; 

  2. spirit of the Lord (Rev. 5: 6)

  3. living Word of God (Heb. 4: 12),and the Four Gospels of  the Lord that is, take the Gospel to the Ends of the World Matt 28: ??.
Rev 5: 6 Seven spirits of God–best biblical suggestions
Code: 
  1. Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit (Gal. 5: 17-22)
Rev. 12?? Lady clothed in the Sun–best biblical suggestions
Code: 
  1. Mother of Our Lord come to visit me (Luke 2??)

  2. Power of the Holy Spirit shall overshadow you (Luke 2??)

  3. Sun Justice Mal 3: 20, Mary is the Mother of Our Lord Who is the Sun of Justice
Does this make a little sense?

Oh, this is my first effort.

Also, this is a rough darft.

THANKS!!!
 
“ekei”

Why is this Greek word translated as time in chapter 12 of the book of Revelation?

Thanks
 
In Genesis 2; 8 eden is used in the Hebrew.

In Psalm 36; 8 eden is used in the Hebrew.

Is there a difference?

Thanks!!!
 
I checked the Hebrew of Psalm 36:8 and I don’t find EDEN. Maybe you are thinking of a different passage?
 
In my KJV it is verse eight.
Psalm 36; 8 They shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of thy house; and thou shalt make them drink of the river of thy PLEASURE.

In my NAB it is verse nine, sorry.
Psalm 36; 9 We feast on the rich food of your house; from your DELIGHTFUL stream you give us drink.
 
Seamus_Sully said:
In my KJV it is verse eight.
Psalm 36; 8 They shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of thy house; and thou shalt make them drink of the river of thy PLEASURE.

In my NAB it is verse nine, sorry.
Psalm 36; 9 We feast on the rich food of your house; from your DELIGHTFUL stream you give us drink.
Click to expand...
Hi Seamus,
I cannot speak for Greek or Hebrew, but my experience is, generally, the more stilted the language, the more closely it reflects the original text, for it still carries the nuances and idiom of the source language.
If, in the phrase "river of thy pleasure’, you can see the meaning “delightful stream”, then your question is closer to being answered.
However, the oversimplifiers might be misunderstanding a metaphore, and the meaning sought might be then:
“the free flowing source of THY delights”, or “the abundance of THY blessings”.
ps
I despise utterly the attempt to abandon 2nd person singular.
It is definitely not obsolete in Britain. Country dialects, now more commonly accepted still value this.
 
I have been having a long conversation with my dad about the Bible. I am a new convert, he is baptist. well, at least I thought he was. he has been giving me his problems with the Catholic church, mainly we are too much like Judism. we mix the old test with the new test. I have tried to do my best at pointing out the our scriptual backing on these points. what I need is a straight forward refute to his claim of a new religion that formed in the 1st chapter of Romans. I know this is a whacky interputation. but he says, the jews are left out of this new religion. God chose Paul as his messenger for the gentiles. I hope I am not making this too confusing, … others from the forums here have said he is using a dispensationalist point of view?? please any help would make my day.

Thank you
YBIC
Dan
 
“theion”

Could one of you wonderful people help with the Greek word?

How did we get the English word brimstone for “theion”?

Does the LXX use it?

If so how?

Well,you guys will know how to help!

THANKS!!!
 
“theion”

Could one of you wonderful people help with the Greek word?

How did we get the English word brimstone for “theion”?

Does the LXX use it?

If so, how?

Well,you guys will know how to help!

THANKS!!!
 
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