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Seamus_Sully said:
“theion”

Could one of you wonderful people help with the Greek word?

How did we get the English word brimstone for “theion”?

Does the LXX use it?

If so, how?

Well,you guys will know how to help!

THANKS!!!
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Hi Seamus,
I checked with Babelfish from AltaVista, translating ‘sulfur and brimstone’, (both having the same or similar meanings - brimstone being archaic), from English to Greek, and got the following result:
θείο και θειάφι.
That is, theta - epsilon - iota, accented - omicron, I would transliterate as:
Th for thin,
e for egg,
ee as in keep,
o for on,
pronounced: ‘Thayeeo’
for sulfur.
2nd word: kappa - alpha - iota, transliterated as:
k for kaiser,
a for apple,
i for in,
pronounced: k(eye)
for and.
3rd word: theta - epsilon - iota - alpha, accented - phi - iota,
transliterated as:
Th for thin,
e for egg,
i for in,
a as in father,
f for fish,
i for in,
pronounced: thayahfi
for brimstone.

Both nouns begin with ‘thay’, which could in a different phonetic system be written ‘thei’.
Thus it would seem that the word stem is ‘thei’, followed by a declension or suffix, making
theion
theiyo
theiahfi.
Though Altavista does not recognise theion as Greek, possibly because I used Roman script, the words it gave for sulphur and brimstone give me confidence that ‘theion’ is simply Greek for sulfur, for which the archaic name is brimstone, for it is commonly found on the brim of volcanos.
 
gophriyth

This Hebrew word is translated brimstone.

How was it translated in the LXX?

Why is brimstone used for translations?

Thanks!
 
Are there translations in our tradition that reflect the origins of the word in Hebrew “gophriyth”?

Thanks!

There just seems to be something incorrect about the English translation brimstone, is there? Is it outdated?

Thanks!
 
Seamus_Sully said:
Are there translations in our tradition that reflect the origins of the word in Hebrew “gophriyth”?

Thanks!

There just seems to be something incorrect about the English translation brimstone, is there? Is it outdated?

Thanks!
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What is the context of brimstone, or gophriyth to which you refer?
I recall, if anything, the phrase “fire and brimstone”.
This is suggestive of a volcanic caldera, and seems to invoke the fires of Hades.
Brimstone is not only the archaic word for sulphur, it is also the correct name for native sulphur.
Native in this context means in an uncombined form, though possibly impure.
 
PRO

Genesis 19: 24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;…

It is only in the Old Testament about five or six times.

I would like to know how Talmud or the Rabbis explained it.

THANKS for the help!
 
Seamus_Sully said:
PRO

Genesis 19: 24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;…

It is only in the Old Testament about five or six times.

I would like to know how Talmud or the Rabbis explained it.

THANKS for the help!
Click to expand...
Hi Seamus,
Here is your LXX text in Greek and English:

septuagint.org/LXX/Genesis/Genesis19.html
24 και κυριος εβρεξεν επι *σοδομα και Γομορρα θειον και πυρ
παρα κυριου εκ του ουρανου

ecmarsh.com/lxx/Genesis/index.htm
24 And the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrha brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven.
 
I have another problem.

Revelation 2: 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Crown of life (“zoe”), could this be translated Life’s crown?

Furthermore, if it can be translated Life’s crown, does Life mean God?

Thanks!
 
I need clear passage(s) that states that Babylon destroyed the Temple.

Also, I need clear passage(s) that state that Jesus is the Temple.

Also, I need clear passage(s) that compare Israel or Jerusalem with Egypt.

THANKS!!!
 
Seamus_Sully said:
I have another problem.

Revelation 2: 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Crown of life (“zoe”), could this be translated Life’s crown?

Furthermore, if it can be translated Life’s crown, does Life mean God?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
esto fidelis usque ad mortem et dabo tibi coronam vitae
coronam: crown - accusative, (direct object - that which is given)
vitae: life - singular: genitive or dative, or plural nominative. Definitely not accusative. Dative does not make any sense, that is the crown is not being given to life, so genitive remains. Thus the crown belongs to life, so ‘life’s crown’ and ‘the crown of life’ are equally valid.
The question remains what do ‘crown’ and ‘life’ actualy mean, they are both seem to be figurative.
Being given a crown implies being elevated to king, or other high ruler.
‘Life’ is more difficult. does it mean ‘thy life’, not stated, or all life, not stated, or does it ambiguously mean both?
Perhaps then the Latin might be read as:
Be thou faithful even unto death, and I will give thee kingship over life.
In the sentence, life is being offered as the antithesis if death, so it would seem that the life, being offered the kingship over is one’s own.
So it would then seem that what is on offer is the courage to face the adversity that faithfulness might incur.
 
Why do we refer to the Mass as a scarifice?

How do we explain Mary as comediator (or the correct term)?

Thanks!
 
I think the idea is that the student, me, could ask the scholars questions.

As far as I know, all are welcome.
 
Do the Church Fathers tell us that Adam and Eve are themselves the Garden?

I believe that this is a possible interpretation.

Is it?

Based on the parable of the sower, the fruits of the Holy Spirit, rooted and grounded in love, the Song of Songs, the parable of the wedding feast, and the Wedding Freast of the Lamd…

THANK YOU!
 
Jim_Baur said:
Do the Church Fathers tell us that Adam and Eve are themselves the Garden?

I believe that this is a possible interpretation.

Is it?

Based on the parable of the sower, the fruits of the Holy Spirit, rooted and grounded in love, the Song of Songs, the parable of the wedding feast, and the Wedding Feast of the Lamd…

THANK YOU!
Click to expand...
Hi Jim,
I think you are looking too deeply, however, there is a Latin/Greek pun based on the Persian for Garden, which is ‘paradise’
We should not object to a mixed language pun, as about this time, there was much cross ‘infection’ between Greek and Latin, as 'Vulgar Latin came into common use.
‘Paradise’ can be split into two parts: ‘para’ and ‘dise’.
‘Para’ is a Greek prefix meaning ‘with’, or more accurately, ‘alongside’.
‘Dise’ can be seen as a misshearing of ‘Deus’.
It is grammaticly incorrect, but we are talking Vulgar Latin, and the Classical grammar was being vulgarised.
So ‘Paradise’ can be read as ‘with’ or ‘alongside’ G_d.
Indeed, one of the Persian meanings of the word is ‘Heaven’.
 
Ephesians 1: 10 That in the dispensation (“oikonomia”) of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Exodus 25: 40 And look that thou make [them] after their pattern (“tabniyth”), which was shewed thee in the mount.

Are these two words related, that is, “oikonomia” and “tabniyth”?

If these two words are related, how are these two words related?

Are the two realities that these concepts describe related?

If so, how are they related?

Thanks!
 
Jim_Baur said:
Ephesians 1: 10 That in the dispensation (“oikonomia”) of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Exodus 25: 40 And look that thou make [them] after their pattern (“tabniyth”), which was shewed thee in the mount.

Are these two words related, that is, “oikonomia” and “tabniyth”?

If these two words are related, how are these two words related?

Are the two realities that these concepts describe related?

If so, how are they related?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
It seems that etymologically, the words are not related. Perhaps semantically they are…
 
Hi Jim,

The word oikonomia ( οικονομια ) is a compound word meaning the “law” (nomia) of the house (oikos). I think it is the root word for Economy. Eg: it means the way in which wealth/goods are transmitted to a household/family.

I have never seen (tabniyuth) in Greek, so I don’t know what its etymology is – I presume that is Hebrew. I do know that the LXX (Septuagint) equivalent for that word is the phrase “ton typon ton de-deigmenon” (τον τυπον τον δε-δειγμενον) Which is equivalent to saying “the type, (I mean) the ~decided/decreed/official one”

I am only aware of δε-δειγμενον being something that is appointed or decided by a ruler or King. Sort of an official decision/appointment. When Joseph “decides” to put Mary away quetly, I think the gospel writer uses a variation on this word – which hints at his authority as Son of David over the Law.

I am not sure there is anything but a vague relationship.
But, The Economy is dictated by the ruler of the House – Eg: God communicates his Grace to us using HIS own law of the house (Economy). And, at the same time, the method God uses is decided or decreed (de-deigmenon) in a official Kingly/Fatherly sense.

Hope that helps.
–Andrew.
 
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