Science and the modern Apostasy

[steph_86]

I don’t understand. If there is a crisis within the Church then the Church must seek the solution within, the rest of the world isn’t going to change.

You write an excellent lament, although it’s a little uncertain whether those good ol’ days were really so good, but all things pass, only God never changes.

But if it is more than a lament, are you proposing that we all give up democracy, give up academic freedom, give up all our hard won liberties to be forced to bow to your altar of Tradition?

You are right, “the good ol’ days” were not really so good after all. In fact, it must be stated that no historical age is perfect. Rather, humanity advances through history and each age brings with itself its own challenges.

The middle ages, which span a period of approximately between the 5th to the 15th centuries were not a perfect period of history. On a side note, one can make a distinction between the middle ages properly called (circa the 11th to 15th centuries - I may be wrong), and the dark ages (circa the 5th to the 11th centuries). But these are merely technicalities.

Medieval society was not perfect. Material life was often difficult, brutal, and short. Feudalism was far from a perfect institution. It involved a system of functions and duties that regulated European life all the way till the 18th or 19th centuries. But there was no real conception of the individual human as a person with actual rights. Serfs depended upon the good will of their lords, to which they were held in bondage. Society was essentially hierarchical and every one knew their place.

Despite its warring and disparate character, medieval life was held in check by the Christian religion. The emergence of Christendom, the international and supranational conception of the different political units overlayed by a spiritual and religious purpose that found its leadership in the papacy, took centuries to realize. And even still, this was a fragile or albeit delicate realization that was ultimately dependent on one’s identification as a Christian and of one’s appartenance to the whole, and thus, on an act of faith.

The real genius of medieval culture, in its highest realization, is found in the synthesis, or better yet, the fusion between faith and all aspects of life. Intellectual life, military life, social and political life all found their common end in Christian and religious purpose. Religion was not only the end but also the center, the soul and life blood of society. Men had a consciousness of belonging to the order of Christendom and also of their ultimate supernatural end.

The contribution of scholasticism and above all of St Thomas’ theological synthesis was found in the recognition of the autonomy but also of the mutual concordance between faith and reason, nature and grace. Faith presupposes reason and perfects it, while grace builds on nature and also perfects it. His political theory in fact rested on these basic principles in which were asserted the separate rights of Church and State, but also of their ultimate and mutual concordance towards the realization of the Christian order. As English cultural historian Christopher Dawson stated in his book Religion and the Rise of Western Culture:

Now as St. Thomas as shown, it is quite possible to incorporate the organic materialism of Aristotelian politics into the organic mysticism of the Christian view of society, but only on condition that the state itself is recognized as an organ of the spiritual community and not as the sovereign end of human life.That is to say, social theory and social practice must deal with the part in terms of the whole and not as a final end. (p.177-178)

And it must be said that the new synthesis of the Aristotelian and Christian philosophies involved the appreciation of the new rights of man and of the rational autonomy of nature. It contributed to the new conception of political society as an autonomous order subservient to itself. It also contributed to the birth of science as a distinct province of rational inquiry. And although society remained Christian, increasingly Christian life became one among many competing activities. Increasingly, national life asserted itself, until the unity of Christendom was finally put at risk.

Although the existence of Christendom as a spiritual and religious unity lasted only three to five centuries, it had a lasting impact on the formation of Western culture. It contributed on the last analysis, to the consummate consciousness of the European people as an international order with a common cultural heritage. Although this consciousness was threatened and put at risk by the religious, national and political forces that awakened during the Reformation it was nevertheless maintained by common intellectual and educational methods produced by the revival of classical culture generated by humanism.

But the Reformation definitively put an end to what could have been a distinctly Christian civilization. And whereas the Copernican revolution and the Galileo affair were laying the foundations of the modern intellectual revolt, the Reformation contributed immensely to the secularization of Western culture. It not only contributed to the assertion of the rights of national life, but also to the assertion of the rights of the State as the Church increasingly lost its place as the common spiritual and ecclesiastical authority of European culture.

 

[steph_86]

However, the chief defect of modernity is its conception as an autonomous order constituting its own end which exists without any final reference to any spiritual or religious authority that would give it its ultimate justification. In fact, this is the greatest repudiation of the religious, social and intellectual patrimony of humanity as seen through human history. This has resulted in the current condition in which human life is directly divorced from any conception of man’s ultimate supernatural end. This error, is naturalism.

It is true, liberal democracy has greatly contributed to the conception of man as a creature with rights and a dignity. At the same time however, it has abolished the inegalatarian nature of the old order which centered on the conception of man as a functional part to the greater whole. The conception of the natural and political rights of man have been divorced from their religious foundation leading to the conception of the natural man as an entity unto himself, that answers to no law higher than his conscience and free to embrace any thought he wishes. As Catholic columnist Solange Strong Hertz puts it in her article What’s up?:

*When Revolution overturns the political order, it also capsizes the moral order on which it rests. In the democratic framework, pride and ambition become exalted virtues to be cultivated by all, whereas they are in fact death-dealing luciferian vices fatal to social organization of any kind. Revolution’s citizenry carry their own social disintegration as a genetically transmitted disease. To paraphrase Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address, no “nation so conceived or so dedicated can long endure,” for “government of the people, by the people, for the people” must inevitably “perish from the earth.”

In God’s economy, not only celestial bodies, but everybody has a divinely ordained place, not just a place, but its place, his place, from which to carry on relations with God and everything outside itself. It is integral to vocation. Our Lord told His Apostles before He suffered that His Father’s house contains many dwellings, and “I go to prepare a place for you. . . that where I am you also may be” (John 14:2-3). It is not a question of having a high place or a low place, but of having one’s own place. Judas fell from the apostleship “that he might go to his own place” (Acts1:25), the only place where he belonged. Predestination is a difficult mystery, but it is Catholic dogma.*

As she so vehemently puts it, the absurdity of democracy as a political system comes from the fact that to say that society can be ruled from below is tantamount to saying that the universe can be controlled by animals or sticks and stones at the lower end of the cosmological scale. Now, it cannot be occulted that even some aspects of medieval political government, civic and ecclesiastical life were democratic in form but in truth, they were ultimately not separated from their religious and spiritual purpose. And this is what is lacking. In many respects, however, the dissociation of religious ends from civic, social, and political life, has led to the current conception of society as a political order strictly directed towards economic ends.

But at the origin, is the separation between faith and reason, found in an excessive reliance on human reason, an attitude better termed as rationalism. The intellectual element has had a considerable impact on the formation of modernity. The formation of the universities formed a turning point in the intellectual and cultural life of Western culture. Nevertheless, as long as the intellectual element was held in check by the religious and spiritual elements, Christian faith could survive untainted and uncontaminated. It was only when the intellectual element became strict rationalism that faith itself was put to the test.

As St. Paul puts it in 1 Corinthians 8:1: Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies.

Now, we cannot understate the importance that science has played in the life not only of Western culture, but also of humanity. Knowledge is a good thing, for it contributes to the end of ignorance, which is an evil and a consequence of the Fall of the origins. In fact, when properly used, knowledge contributes to the widening of the human intelligence and of the organization of human life around common ends. Properly used, it helps to promote intolerance and promote intercultural bonds and friendships. But even more importantly, science has greatly contributed to our understanding of the universe, of its rational consistency and of its sublime order. Science, and in this, in fact, natural science, has greatly contributed to the human domination of his natural and physical environment. In this, it has led to the fulfillment of the divine mandate found in Scripture:

Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.

 

[steph_86]

The application of science and of its discoveries to culture have led to the Industrial Revolution that has immensely revolutionized a pattern of life more or less dependent on nature that had characterized Western culture for centuries, and in fact, humanity for millenia. In this, is reflected the immense power of a culture that had in the last analysis, been driven to the realization of material and economic ends. In this, is manifested the historical character of human life which throughout successive ages, finds expression in new forms of culture, social, institutional and political life. At the same time, it cannot be occulted that the foundation of this process was found in a historical process of human injustice and ruthless economic activity that found its expression in the historic re-emergence of slavery during the Renaissance expansion, and the exploitation of the poor, particular during the Industrial Revolution. But I digress.

The more insiduous and thus challenging cause to the existence and religious authority of the Church, is found in the separation of science from religion following the Galileo controversy. This separation has had a lasting impact on the relations between faith and science, and thus, faith and reason. Indeed, the growing independence of science, led to the prevalence of rationalism and to the demotion of the Church, and its most eminent realization, the Sacred Scriptures, as the appointed Teacher of the nations. But the most serious and damaging consequence of the separation of science from religious wisdom, was the ultimate conception of created reality not only as an autonomous order divested of supernatural and ultimately, divine causation, but also of its strictly mathematical understanding as a closed mechanism ruled by determinism and necessity. This, I believe, has had a very harmful impact on Catholic Christian worldview. As Scripture states in Psalm 19:1:

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.

And yet, the exclusive insistence of human science as a source of knowledge, led to the growing conviction of the educated elites of the incompatibility between religious knowledge and faith perceived as mere poetry on the one hand, and scientific knowledge. It contributed greatly to the rise of deism in the 17th century, which was in the beginning an attempt to create a rational religion which in reality was merely a scientific transposition of the metaphysical truths of Christianity. But in this, deism anticipates the uncompromising rationalism of the Enlightenment which ultimately led to the cult of the goddess Reason.

Thus, the consequence of the independence of scientific investigation from religious truth, led not only to the conception of the universe as a purely rational and deterministic order, thus increasingly creating a new world view, but it has also led to the emergence of man as a mere natural creature with mere natural rights, and of his restriction to mere natural and thus, temporal and secular ends. The transposition of an explanation of the universe according to natural and physical principles to the explanation of man and of his origins according to natural and materialist principles was only a matter of centuries. It was in the naturalist and materialist theories of Charles Darwin, that these found their consummate expression.

Hence, the investigations of science have had a lasting influence on the progressive loss of the Catholic Christian world view. The loss of the centrality of the earth in the physical and the cosmological order finally found resonance in the loss of his central place as a creature of divine origin, a likeness of the Triune Divinity, who contained in himself a unity of the material and spiritual orders and whose end was ultimately supernatural as found in the happy contemplation of the Beatific Vision.

Hitherto, Christian world view contained within itself a hierarchical cosmological order that had been reflected for centuries, in the hierarchical and functional constitution of human society. As Solange Strong Hertz further states in her article, What’s Up? speaking of the relation between the advent of heliocentrism and the emergence of political democracy:

The luminous orb which God had designed to function as the earth’s indispensable Figaro, had become the earth’s ringmaster. We might say democracy had invaded the heavens in anticipation of its triumph among nations. Its absurdity as a political system should have been apparent then and there when viewed in physical terms, for to say that society can be ruled from below is tantamount to saying that the universe can be controlled by animals or sticks and stones at the lower end of the cosmological scale.

 

[gentle_atheist]

Hitherto, Christian world view contained within itself a hierarchical cosmological order that had been reflected for centuries, in the hierarchical and functional constitution of human society. As Solange Strong Hertz further states in her article, “What’s Up?” speaking of the relation between the advent of heliocentrism and the emergence of political democracy:

“The luminous orb which God had designed to function as the earth’s indispensable Figaro, had become the earth’s ringmaster. We might say democracy had invaded the heavens in anticipation of its triumph among nations. Its absurdity as a political system should have been apparent then and there when viewed in physical terms, for to say that society can be ruled from below is tantamount to saying that the universe can be controlled by animals or sticks and stones at the lower end of the cosmological scale.”

Sheeesh!!! What a snob!!!

 

[tonyrey]

The application of science and of its discoveries to culture have led to the Industrial Revolution that has immensely revolutionized a pattern of life more or less dependent on nature that had characterized Western culture for centuries, and in fact, humanity for millenia. In this, is reflected the immense power of a culture that had in the last analysis, been driven to the realization of material and economic ends. In this, is manifested the historical character of human life which throughout successive ages, finds expression in new forms of culture, social, institutional and political life. At the same time, it cannot be occulted that the foundation of this process was found in a historical process of human injustice and ruthless economic activity that found its expression in the historic re-emergence of slavery during the Renaissance expansion, and the exploitation of the poor, particular during the Industrial Revolution. But I digress.

The more insiduous and thus challenging cause to the existence and religious authority of the Church, is found in the separation of science from religion following the Galileo controversy. This separation has had a lasting impact on the relations between faith and science, and thus, faith and reason. Indeed, the growing independence of science, led to the prevalence of rationalism and to the demotion of the Church, and its most eminent realization, the Sacred Scriptures, as the appointed Teacher of the nations. But the most serious and damaging consequence of the separation of science from religious wisdom, was the ultimate conception of created reality not only as an autonomous order divested of supernatural and ultimately, divine causation, but also of its strictly mathematical understanding as a closed mechanism ruled by determinism and necessity. This, I believe, has had a very harmful impact on Catholic Christian worldview. As Scripture states in Psalm 19:1:

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.

And yet, the exclusive insistence of human science as a source of knowledge, led to the growing conviction of the educated elites of the incompatibility between religious knowledge and faith perceived as mere poetry on the one hand, and scientific knowledge. It contributed greatly to the rise of deism in the 17th century, which was in the beginning an attempt to create a rational religion which in reality was merely a scientific transposition of the metaphysical truths of Christianity. But in this, deism anticipates the uncompromising rationalism of the Enlightenment which ultimately led to the cult of the goddess Reason.

Thus, the consequence of the independence of scientific investigation from religious truth, led not only to the conception of the universe as a purely rational and deterministic order, thus increasingly creating a new world view, but it has also led to the emergence of man as a mere natural creature with mere natural rights, and of his restriction to mere natural and thus, temporal and secular ends. The transposition of an explanation of the universe according to natural and physical principles to the explanation of man and of his origins according to natural and materialist principles was only a matter of centuries. It was in the naturalist and materialist theories of Charles Darwin, that these found their consummate expression.

Hence, the investigations of science have had a lasting influence on the progressive loss of the Catholic Christian world view. The loss of the centrality of the earth in the physical and the cosmological order finally found resonance in the loss of his central place as a creature of divine origin, a likeness of the Triune Divinity, who contained in himself a unity of the material and spiritual orders and whose end was ultimately supernatural as found in the happy contemplation of the Beatific Vision.

Hitherto, Christian world view contained within itself a hierarchical cosmological order that had been reflected for centuries, in the hierarchical and functional constitution of human society. As Solange Strong Hertz further states in her article, What’s Up? speaking of the relation between the advent of heliocentrism and the emergence of political democracy:

The luminous orb which God had designed to function as the earth’s indispensable Figaro, had become the earth’s ringmaster. We might say democracy had invaded the heavens in anticipation of its triumph among nations. Its absurdity as a political system should have been apparent then and there when viewed in physical terms, for to say that society can be ruled from below is tantamount to saying that the universe can be controlled by animals or sticks and stones at the lower end of the cosmological scale.

Your insight, knowledge and eloquence are a great asset to this forum.

 

[gentle_atheist]

Your insight, knowledge and eloquence are a great asset to this forum.

Thank you!!!

 

[steph_86]

But the medieval Catholic Christian world view had possessed a profound realism in which in the last analysis, the social and political constitution of the temporal order was seen to reflect not only its religious purpose, but also its cosmological conception of reality which ultimately linked it to the physical and eternal realm of Blessedness. In the medieval cosmological worldview, earth was at the center of the world and laid between the opposed and eternal realms of Heaven and Hell. And this reality was intensely cosmological, and thus, physical. There was a sense thus, of physical direction. Up, was the direction of Heaven, the realm of God, of the saints, and of the angels. And down, was the direction of earth, but above all, of Hell, which was the realm of the damned and of the evil angels, who were enclosed at the center of the earth. These realities were not only theological and metaphysical, but also cosmological, and thus, physical. Heaven and Hell, indeed, were understood thus, to be physical places, perhaps not in the sense humans could conceive it, but yet, in real a sense, places that sublimated for all eternity, - in blessedness or horror - the physical nature of created reality. These truths, both cosmological and theological, were entirely scriptural.

As such, the loss of this conception of the universe that occurred with its replacement by the new scientific and rationalistic world view and of the loss of the latter’s ultimate reference to any religious truths, has had the most harmful influence on the Catholic Christian faith. The new conception of man as a natural product of physical and deterministic laws involved the considerable loss not only of the seriousness of the Christian cosmological world view but also of its lyrical poetry. Indeed, how could man give real praise to God any longer, if he were now merely the evolved product of an impersonal natural and deterministic law of conflict and death that was in the end the cause and the agent of the rise of human rationality from indeterminate material chaos? In truth, this involved the loss of man’s innocence both spiritual and rational. This, I think, is one the most powerful causes of the skepticism, negativity and narcissism that characterizes contemporary culture.

And yet, not all is lost. As stated, earlier every historical age presents its own challenges, which, however, cannot be dissociated from the previous developments that occurred prior. This can be seen mostly in the multiform response of the Church to each successive historical problem it was confronted. For example, within centuries, it moved from the continued condemnation of heliocentrism to the allowance of its teaching as a theory, although it never officially and authoritatively sponsored it. Even further, it moved from the outright condemnation and struggle with political power after the advent of democracy to the positive considerations of its contributions to human life and political thought, as seen mostly in Vatican II.

At the same time, however, it must be understood that the above listed are in truth errors, which have been propagated at the expense of the Church and of its authority. Of course, error has been part of civilization and culture of centuries. It is principally the result of sin, and of course, of the Sin of the origins. In fact, as evidenced by the history of Israel, human monarchy and representative government themselves may be understood as errors. Indeed, it can be stated that in truth, the true and lawful monarch is God Himself, Ruler and Lawgiver of both creation and of the nations. As the history of Israel shows, the Chosen People themselves repudiated the direct social, legal and religious rule of God Himself for the national but still religious, rule of the king, in order to align themselves more to the pattern of the nations, from which they received the influence. As such, error exists at every age.

Nevertheless, the main purpose of my thread, is for us to see the signs of the end times. Modern civilization with its free press, its methods of communication, its liberties, its ideal of learning, its humaness, but also its popular culture as seen in the easy use of the cinema and its great affection for scientific and technological novelty; is not, in the last analysis, the culmination of a historical process of progress. In a sense, modern civilization is not the greatest manifestation of human progress, in the religious, moral, and spiritual sense, although it is an impressive expression of the human, material, legal, technical and political. No, the main point of my thread is to reassert the importance and the absolute nature of faith, of religion, and of spirituality.

Man, indeed, will not be saved by the accumulation of knowledge. And in this regard, the horrors of the two World wars, and the creation of the atom bomb are the consummate representation of the separation between man’s moral and ethical formation and of scientific investigation, and of the latter’s common subservience to practical, economic, and political considerations. Nor will man be saved by totalitarian political power, by political rights and the apparent realization of social and political unity, which in reality, are more akin to a kind of political uniformity. No. Man, will only be saved by Christ and by obedience to his Church which has received from its Head its mission as universal Teacher and Sacrament of Salvation.

 

[tonyrey]

*Hitherto, Christian world view contained within itself a hierarchical cosmological order that had been reflected for centuries, in the hierarchical and functional constitution of human society. As Solange Strong Hertz further states in her article, “What’s Up?” speaking of the relation between the advent of heliocentrism and the emergence of political democracy:

In addition to infringing Forum Conduct Rule 1 your abuse makes no worthwhile contribution whatsoever to the discussion…

 

[tonyrey]

Thank you!!!

Your irony is further evidence of your inability to make a worthwhile contribution to the discussion…

 

[steph_86]

The point of my thread as such, is to reaffirm the regality of faith and the need to recover the totality of its world view. As Blessed John Paul II stated in Faith and Reason, and I paraphrase, humanity is in need of a new metaphysical synthesis, the like of which was accomplished by St. Thomas. Not all human science is bad. It has always been the policy of the Church to safeguard what is good in profane culture and use it in its evangelizing mission. But, it must be stressed, all areas of human knowledge must in the end be interpreted in relation to, in reference to, and in light of the Faith, which is found not only in the interventions of the Magisterium, in the teachings of Sacred Tradition, but also in the inerrant inspiration of Sacred Scripture. Without this realization, Faith will continue to be extinguished by a science that excludes God, and of a political power that exists without its religious foundation.

But above all, the most important element to be noted is the personal fusion between faith and life. It must be stated that, in truth, the world cannot be saved, but it is possible to save souls. In order to redeem what can be redeemed of the world, it is necessary to recover once again the conception of the Catholic Christian as a pilgrim, one whose true destiny is the eternal Society of Heaven. It is necessary for us to substitute our conception as citizens of the nation-state, for our true and supernatural citizenship into the Eternal City which finds its expression in the Catholic Church, the earthly Jerusalem, and Kingdom of God. And it must be said, there is also lacking a true recognition of the social and political Kingship of Christ.

What is needed thus, is a whole programme of personal and collective sanctification the foundations of which are the following: obedience to the Church, and above all to the Pope, who is the Vicar of Christ; intense practice of the sacraments and above all, devotion to the Eucharist which in truth, is the true spiritual and physical center of the world; and finally, devotion to Mary, the Immaculate and Queen of Heaven and of the Church, to whom the destinies of the nations have been given, and who will finally crush the head of the infernal Serpent.

In the end, Love, which is the obedience of faith, will save the world, and redeem humanity.

 

[tonyrey]

Sheeesh!!! What a snob!!!

Your post is not only an infringement of Conduct Rule 1 but evidence of your inability to make a worthwhile contributiobn to the discussion…

 

[tonyrey]

But the Reformation definitively put an end to what could have been a distinctly Christian civilization. And whereas the Copernican revolution and the Galileo affair were laying the foundations of the modern intellectual revolt, the Reformation contributed immensely to the secularization of Western culture. It not only contributed to the assertion of the rights of national life, but also to the assertion of the rights of the State as the Church increasingly lost its place as the common spiritual and ecclesiastical authority of European culture.

The rights of the State are now being asserted to the extent of intolerance of Christian expression and social activity in countries like the UK.

The value of other religions throughout the world should not be underestimated because it is unrealistic to expect everyone to be converted to Christianity (which does not have the monopoly of spiritual truths and values).

The main source of evil is the propaganda of scientists which gives people the impression that we have evolved by chance, that evil is merely a human invention and that we should eat, drink and be merry because tomorrow we die and disappear forever and ever… (with a diabolical amen!)

 

[steph_86]

Your insight, knowledge and eloquence are a great asset to this forum.

Thanks.

 

[atheistgirl]

St. Robert Bellarmine who was a Cardinal at the time, understood what was at stake, which was the innerrancy of Scripture and the authority of the Greek and Roman Fathers of the Faith. Indeed, the Catholic Faith was at stake. In a subtle manner, Galileo had put into doubt an account of creation - that of the central position and of the immobility of the earth - that had been accepted by both pagans and Christians for centuries. Most of all, Galileo put into question an interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures …Since that time, the Scriptures have lost their place as a source of natural and physical truth.

Does the scriptures teach the earth was the centre of the universe? If so, the scripture is wrong. Simple. Are you suggesting the earth actually is the entre of the universe? I might not be understanding what you said correctly.

Surely it would be just madness for the church to cling to and teach the sun goes around the earth, which every child in the world over the age of 8 knows is wrong?

Sarah x

 

[steph_86]

The rights of the State are now being asserted to the extent of intolerance of Christian expression and social activity in countries like the UK.

The value of other religions throughout the world should not be underestimated because it is unrealistic to expect everyone to be converted to Christianity (which does not have the monopoly of spiritual truths and values).

The main source of evil is the propaganda of scientists which gives people the impression that we have evolved by chance, that evil is merely a human invention and that we should eat, drink and be merry because tomorrow we die and disappear forever and ever… (with a diabolical amen!)

Evil is multiform. Evil can take many forms whether social, religious, political or scientific. No culture is perfect, no age is perfect. All evil, which takes its origin at the Foot of the Tree in the Garden, ultimately can be traced to the Revolt of Lucifer and of his angels and of his rejection of the divine Plan. As such, human evil is essentially the result of a cosmic battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness. Still, all history in a sense tends and awaits the revelation of the “full stature of Christ” that will free humanity and creation from the bondage of sin and destruction. As such, we must comprehend our own age with a healthy realism, that accepts what is good in life and rejects what is bad.

We must have a considerate and respectful attitude towards other religions. At the same time, we must hold to our Christian truths. There is only one true religion, one religio vera, which is Christianity whose fullest expression is found in the Roman Catholic Church, the Body of Christ, Kingdom of God and earthly Jerusalem. We cannot expect the world to convert wholesale to Christianity. At the same time, the Church must be focused on the task of evangelization, in the hope of redeeming what can be redeemed of the world.

According to Christian prophecy, the process of rebellion that started at the Foot of the Tree, will be taken to its ultimate expression in the realization of a universal political and totalitarian superpower at the head of which will be the Son of Perdition, the Antichrist. This man, certainly of Jewish origin, will proclaim himself as God, will blaspheme the Divinity and persecute the Church, the People of God. Ultimately, he will be vanquished, and a period of Peace will be granted to the world, a universal Eucharistic reign, but still limited.

Still, the current developments occurring within contemporary society point to the disparate but resolute direction towards a New World Order of global ambitions. As such, we are not far from the days of the Son of Perdition. Already, in his encyclical E. Supremi, St. Pope Pius X stated this in relation to the advent of the Antichrist:

When all this is considered there is good reason to fear… that there may be already in the world the “Son of Perdition” of whom the Apostle speaks

And that is all. In the end, Love will conquer and redeem humanity.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

steph

According to Christian prophecy, the process of rebellion that started at the Foot of the Tree, will be taken to its ultimate expression in the realization of a universal political and totalitarian superpower at the head of which will be the Son of Perdition, the Antichrist. This man, certainly of Jewish origin,

And how do we know this man will be of Jewish origin?

 

[steph_86]

steph

According to Christian prophecy, the process of rebellion that started at the Foot of the Tree, will be taken to its ultimate expression in the realization of a universal political and totalitarian superpower at the head of which will be the Son of Perdition, the Antichrist. This man, certainly of Jewish origin,

And how do we know this man will be of Jewish origin?

The main contention is that because the Jews did not receive Jesus as the Messiah, in the end times, they will be sent a deceiving influence, one whom they will accept as their Messiah. For the most part, the passages of Scripture are mysterious. There is the famous passage in John 5:43:

I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

Catholic Tradition in fact, is in agreement:

“Christ arose from among the Hebrews, and he (Antichrist) will spring from among the Jews. Christ showed His flesh as a Temple, and raised it up on the third day; and he, too, will raise up again the Temple of stone in Jerusalem.” (St. Hippolytus)

"Antichrist, the son of perdition will be born in Corozain, will be brought up in Bethsaida and shall begin to reign in Capharnaum, according to what Our Lord Jesus said in the Gospel: “Woe to thee Corozain … woe to thee Bethsaida … and thou Capharnaum that art exalted up to heaven, thou shalt be thrust down to hell. (Luke, 10:13) Antichrist shall work a thousand prodigies on earth. He will make the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk, the dead rise, so that even the Elect, if possible, shall be deceived by his magical arts. Puffed up with pride, Antichrist shall enter in triumph the city of Jerusalem and will sit on a throne in the Temple to be adored as if he were the Son of God. His heart being intoxicated with arrogance, he will forget his being a mere man, and the son of a woman of the tribe of Dan.” (St. Zenobius)

He will be from the tribe of Dan, as stated in the above quote and as supported by the following Scripture passage in Genesis 49:17:

Dan will be a serpent by the roadside, a viper along the path, that bites the horse’s heels so that its rider tumbles backward.

Now, I know you don’t give much credence to supernatural manifestations, but this is also confirmed by the Secret of La Salette which was revealed at the apparitions of our Lady in 1846. The apparitions were approved as credible by the Church on 1851 and they state the following:

It will be during this time that the antichrist will be born of a Hebrew religious, of a false Virgin who will have communication with the old serpent, the master of impurity; his father will be Bishop; at birth, he will vomit blasphemies, he will have teeth; in a word, this will be the devil incarnate; he will let out frightening cries, he will perform wonders, he will nourish himself only on impurities. He will have brothers who, although they will not be like him demons incarnate, will be children of evil; at 12 years, they will make themselves noticed by their brilliant victories which they will win; soon, they will each be at the head of armies, assisted by the legions of hell.

Of course, you are free to believe. At the same time, we must observe that it is judicious to not dismiss the prophetic charism which is part of the Church.

Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophetic utterances. Test everything; retain what is good. (1 Thessalonians 5:19)

Indeed, these supernatural manifestations are not only a part of the prophetic charism, but they help us illumine the signs of the times, and thus, act in consequence. As our Lord told us in Matthew 26:41: Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.

 

[steph_86]

The main contention is that because the Jews did not receive Jesus as the Messiah, in the end times, they will be sent a deceiving influence, one whom they will accept as their Messiah. For the most part, the passages of Scripture are mysterious. There is the famous passage in John 5:43:

I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

Catholic Tradition in fact, is in agreement:

“Christ arose from among the Hebrews, and he (Antichrist) will spring from among the Jews. Christ showed His flesh as a Temple, and raised it up on the third day; and he, too, will raise up again the Temple of stone in Jerusalem.” (St. Hippolytus)

"Antichrist, the son of perdition will be born in Corozain, will be brought up in Bethsaida and shall begin to reign in Capharnaum, according to what Our Lord Jesus said in the Gospel: “Woe to thee Corozain … woe to thee Bethsaida … and thou Capharnaum that art exalted up to heaven, thou shalt be thrust down to hell. (Luke, 10:13) Antichrist shall work a thousand prodigies on earth. He will make the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk, the dead rise, so that even the Elect, if possible, shall be deceived by his magical arts. Puffed up with pride, Antichrist shall enter in triumph the city of Jerusalem and will sit on a throne in the Temple to be adored as if he were the Son of God. His heart being intoxicated with arrogance, he will forget his being a mere man, and the son of a woman of the tribe of Dan.” (St. Zenobius)

He will be from the tribe of Dan, as stated in the above quote and as supported by the following Scripture passage in Genesis 49:17:

Dan will be a serpent by the roadside, a viper along the path, that bites the horse’s heels so that its rider tumbles backward.

Now, I know you don’t give much credence to supernatural manifestations, but this is also confirmed by the Secret of La Salette which was revealed at the apparitions of our Lady in 1846. The apparitions were approved as credible by the Church on 1851 and they state the following:

It will be during this time that the antichrist will be born of a Hebrew religious, of a false Virgin who will have communication with the old serpent, the master of impurity; his father will be Bishop; at birth, he will vomit blasphemies, he will have teeth; in a word, this will be the devil incarnate; he will let out frightening cries, he will perform wonders, he will nourish himself only on impurities. He will have brothers who, although they will not be like him demons incarnate, will be children of evil; at 12 years, they will make themselves noticed by their brilliant victories which they will win; soon, they will each be at the head of armies, assisted by the legions of hell.

Of course, you are free to believe. At the same time, we must observe that it is judicious to not dismiss the prophetic charism which is part of the Church.

Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophetic utterances. Test everything; retain what is good. (1 Thessalonians 5:19)

Indeed, these supernatural manifestations are not only a part of the prophetic charism, but they help us illumine the signs of the times, and thus, act in consequence. As our Lord told us in Matthew 26:41: Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.

In fact, the Secret goes even further and states the following:

Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist.

 

[steph_86]

Does the scriptures teach the earth was the centre of the universe? If so, the scripture is wrong. Simple. Are you suggesting the earth actually is the entre of the universe? I might not be understanding what you said correctly.

Surely it would be just madness for the church to cling to and teach the sun goes around the earth, which every child in the world over the age of 8 knows is wrong?

Sarah x

Well, we have been inculturated to accept the scientific account that the earth revolves around the sun. I do not possess adequate knowledge of science to discuss this matter.

But I am convinced that it is not possible to empirically prove either heliocentrism or geocentrism. In my opinion, all that we can observe is relative motion and unless we can actually put ourselves outside of the universe and observe its workings we cannot have absolute proof. On the other hand, geocentrism and its truth, can be proven scripturally and theologically.

Of course, you are free to not to believe me. You must think of me as a mad-man, anti-science. But in reality I am not. I simply believe in the Church and in the divine inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture.

I hope that helps.

 

[atheistgirl]

I simply believe in the Church and in the divine inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture.

I hope that helps.

Ok that helps. Thanks. I think given the fact the church has an observatory, and trained astronomers, the church would have problems with an earth centred view of the universe, but I dont know. No I don’t think you’re a madman at all. I’m just quite fascinated with the cognative dissonance involved. Very interesting.

Sarah x