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Lochias
Guest
I’ll go ahead and bow out of this particular discussion. Have a good n’.I have no problem adjusting them if there’s a good reason
Sarah x
- Status
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atheistgirl
Guest
Where can I find the peer reviewed papers on this - where the tissue was examined by unbiased patholgists, cardiologists and biochemists under strict conditions and they confirmed they do indeed have a piece of heart tissue that is alive and beating under the microscope?
Anywhere?
Has this work even been done?
Surely a scientific marvel such as a beating heart issue on a glass slide would be passed around for other scientists to examine and confirm - scientists with no invested interests unlike Dr. Zugibe, who personally met Sr Lucia one of the Fatima children and lectured to her community, and who was one of the participants of the first annual Rosary Congress at the National Shrine of Our Lady of Mount Carmel in Middletown , N.Y.
Sarah x
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CopticChristian
Guest
Sarah,Where can I find the peer reviewed papers on this - where the tissue was examined by unbiased patholgists, cardiologists and biochemists under strict conditions and they confirmed they do indeed have a piece of heart tissue that is alive and beating under the microscope?
Anywhere?
Has this work even been done?
Surely a scientific marvel such as a beating heart issue on a glass slide would be passed around for other scientists to examine and confirm - scientists with no invested interests unlike Dr. Zugibe, who personally met Sr Lucia one of the Fatima children and lectured to her community, and who was one of the participants of the first annual Rosary Congress at the National Shrine of Our Lady of Mount Carmel in Middletown , N.Y.
Sarah x
Let me know what you come up with… I will look as well.
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atheistgirl
Guest
Nope.Sarah,
Let me know what you come up with… I will look as well.
Nothing.
Just the same one devout Catholic pathologist.
No peer reviewed papers, no evidence of other scientists looking at it, heck, why weren’t the news crews called to this lab to witness to the world this marvel of scientific and medical defiance?
I can’t even find where this ‘‘lab’’ is in New York that the discovery was made.
Total lack of credibilty - to me.
Sarah x
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buffalo
Guest
Source?
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atheistgirl
Guest
Oh there’s lots, as I’m sure you’re well aware, but here’s a great three part video series you can listen to in the background while you get on with other things:
youtube.com/watch?v=PqPGOhXoprU
Jack Szostak - and he comes with a stamp of approval from our very own Al Mortiz*
- I’m not saying Al agrees with him, just that he rates him as a credible scientist.
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buffalo
Guest
A highly speculative video.Oh there’s lots, as I’m sure you’re well aware, but here’s a great three part video series you can listen to in the background while you get on with other things:
youtube.com/watch?v=PqPGOhXoprU
Jack Szostak - and he comes with a stamp of approval from our very own Al Mortiz*
Sarah x
- I’m not saying Al agrees with him, just that he rates him as a credible scientist.
Did we have a reducing atmosphere? or not?
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atheistgirl
Guest
No problem with that. It’s how we discover things and get to the truth.
I have no idea. It’s not my field
But the scientists working on these things will definitively work it out - we get closer by the day
Sarah x
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
inocente
**Agreed but that doesn’t excuse us once we’re adults. Our parents or other authority figures may be racially prejudiced, homophobic or whatever, and the only way to break with the past and not in turn pass those prejudices on to our children is to review our conscience and form our own judgments by taking responsibility for ourselves. **
No it doesn’t excuse us once we are adults, as even our parents can be leading us into sin. But our parents do help us to shape our conscience. They do not do this alone. The Church also can help them. I do not think that the State is a good teacher of conscience, since the State is by its very nature operated by too many people with too many corruptions. The object of many of these people is to make everyone as corrupt as they are. The culture of corruption in Chicago is a case in point.
We have to be more afraid of the State than of our parents and the Church. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao proved the ruthless potential of the State. As the Founders warned, political (and immoral) domination can only be restrained by the efforts of the people and the institutions dedicated to protecting them from the adverse and encroaching power of the State.
**Agreed but that doesn’t excuse us once we’re adults. Our parents or other authority figures may be racially prejudiced, homophobic or whatever, and the only way to break with the past and not in turn pass those prejudices on to our children is to review our conscience and form our own judgments by taking responsibility for ourselves. **
No it doesn’t excuse us once we are adults, as even our parents can be leading us into sin. But our parents do help us to shape our conscience. They do not do this alone. The Church also can help them. I do not think that the State is a good teacher of conscience, since the State is by its very nature operated by too many people with too many corruptions. The object of many of these people is to make everyone as corrupt as they are. The culture of corruption in Chicago is a case in point.
We have to be more afraid of the State than of our parents and the Church. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao proved the ruthless potential of the State. As the Founders warned, political (and immoral) domination can only be restrained by the efforts of the people and the institutions dedicated to protecting them from the adverse and encroaching power of the State.
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
As physicists and astronomers can tell you, the dominant element of the universe is hydrogen. Without it there would be no such thing as water, and no such thing as life. Why then did hydrogen appear in such a fulsome way at the dawn of Creation? Was that too an accident, or was it part of an Intelligent Design for the universe?
We humans are 7% hydrogen and the rest 93% stardust (combinations of those elements that appeared after hydrogen in the order of creation).
“In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—”
Water = Two parts of hydrogen to one part of oxygen.
We humans are 7% hydrogen and the rest 93% stardust (combinations of those elements that appeared after hydrogen in the order of creation).
“In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—”
Water = Two parts of hydrogen to one part of oxygen.
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Al_Moritz
Guest
At the least a neutral atmosphere with local reducing sources, but much more likely a fully reducing atmosphere, yes. See my article:
talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/originoflife.html
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Al_Moritz
Guest
I only know two scientists in our company that probably (not certainly) are atheists, and I know of several who definitely believe in God. But of course, I have not done a study. Yet the anecdotal evidence does not at all support the notion that scientists tend to be atheists.
I guess there is much ado about nothing on this issue.
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atheistgirl
Guest
Sarah,
Let me know what you come up with… I will look as well.
Any luck there CC finding anything to corroborate these claims in the peer reviewed scientific literature? I’ve drawn a complete blank. Like I said above, I can’t even find the name of this so called lab this all took place at.Nope.
Nothing.
Just the same one devout Catholic pathologist.
No peer reviewed papers, no evidence of other scientists looking at it, heck, why weren’t the news crews called to this lab to witness to the world this marvel of scientific and medical defiance?
I can’t even find where this ‘‘lab’’ is in New York that the discovery was made.
Total lack of credibilty - to me.
Sarah x
Sarah x
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CopticChristian
Guest
Sarah,Any luck there CC finding anything to corroborate these claims in the peer reviewed scientific literature? I’ve drawn a complete blank. Like I said above, I can’t even find the name of this so called lab this all took place at.
Sarah x
No, I have not. This stuff is interesting. I am steeped in Science, my father was a Pharamacist and to be honest I don’t think I am required to believe this or not believe it. What I believe is not based on this. It’s been a long journey and my sanity is as a result of the OHCAC where I found answers when I was looking…but another day…I love science…I love my Faith…I love my sanity…
Give me the names of what you are looking for…I can always call and ask some questions and get back to you…on what I find out…if I have some time I can call and ask questions…
OK:thumbsup:
V
Viviphilia
Guest
Hi Lochias,There’s just no pleasing some people.
There are also other miracles that you’re leaving out of the equation; the Eucharistic miracles in which the Host turns to actual flesh and blood, the incorruptible bodies of the saints; these have been examined and re-examined.
It just goes to show that there are some people who really, truly, don’t want to believe. Given the human capacity for deluding ourselves in many walks of life, it doesn’t surprise me, to be honest.
Why should we use science at all? Why not use logic entirely? As logic can tell us about supernatural things, and science cannot tell us about supernatural things, and we have no way of differentiating between what is natural and what is supernatural, shouldn’t we use logic exclusively and throw science out the window?
- V
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Lochias
Guest
Heya Vivi,
An interesting question. I think logic, science and faith all complement each other, however. The science gives us logic that we can then use to infer the supernatural…during those times when the supernatural isn’t simply apparent all on its own (and it does happen).
Why do you ask?
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inocente
Guest
An issue for me is that heart tissue decays like any other meat, yet when examined by Dr. Zugibe the famous pathologist, not only had it not decayed but was alive and beating. This would be front page news and of immense value to medical science, yet Zugibe doesn’t shout it from the rooftops, he doesn’t even mention it on his website, as if he’s never heard of it.
And instead of the news being splashed across world TV with a press release from the Vatican, we only get to hear of it through a YouTube video.
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buffalo
Guest
I posted the surveys about evolutionary biologists and atheism. If I remember it was in the 70% range.
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ThinkingSapien
Guest
There are several threads here in which non catholics have shared thesis motivations. The reasons vary a good bit.This is a trenchant point, when one considers why non-Catholics have chosen this particular forum in which to dialogue.
Why not go to a JW forum?
I don’t know the answer as to why each individual comes here, but something draws them to Catholic Answers, and it is interesting to consider why…
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atheistgirl
Guest
EXACTLY!!!
I looked at his website too while trying to track down the name of this ‘‘lab’’ where the beating moving heart tissue was observed, and in an effort to find out who this lab tech was so I could track down any statements he made about it, and neither are named.
Which, considering a pathologist, a medical person, a scientist has just discovered something that flies in the fact of all know science, he apparently didn’t see fit to notify other pathologists and scientists to have this verified.
Now I think that’s odd for someone who deals in death and the behavior of tissue after death to help police departments discover the cause of death.
Because this means that when someone is dead, you can’t just look at heart tissue for investigation assuming the tissue is dead, since, on at least one occasion, that tissue had moving cells and was beating
This would completely overturn pathology as we know it.
Yet he, a world famous pathologist, did nothing.
It’s just not credible at all.
Sarah x
- Status