Science can't destroy Religion

[atheistgirl]

Give me the names of what you are looking for…I can always call and ask some questions and get back to you…on what I find out…if I have some time I can call and ask questions…

OK:thumbsup:

This is so cool.

I feel like I’m in an episode of Bones npatrol:

I’ve emailed the good Doctor asking for the name of the lab and it’s location and for the name of the lab tech that discovered the moving cells and beating tissue. This is a start. If he replies I’ve got tons of questions about why he wrote no scientific papers for peer review on this ‘‘miracle’’ and if, as a pathologist, he did further studies on heart tissues, since a beating living heart tissue outside of the body turns medicine and science on it’s head.

I’ve not had a reply yet but I’ll keep you in the loop.

Angela Montenegro signing out.

Sarah x

 

[PRmerger]

The reasons vary a good bit.

No doubt, TS. No doubt.

It is an interesting exercise to consider the manifold reasons a non-Catholic wishes to come to a Catholic forum to dialogue.

 

[atheistgirl]

This is so cool.

I feel like I’m in an episode of Bones npatrol:

I’ve emailed the good Doctor asking for the name of the lab and it’s location and for the name of the lab tech that discovered the moving cells and beating tissue. This is a start. If he replies I’ve got tons of questions about why he wrote no scientific papers for peer review on this ‘‘miracle’’ and if, as a pathologist, he did further studies on heart tissues, since a beating living heart tissue outside of the body turns medicine and science on it’s head.

I’ve not had a reply yet but I’ll keep you in the loop.

Angela Montenegro signing out.

Sarah x

Well that’s disappointing. I’ve just checked my emails and the one to the good doctor bounced!

I’ll try the numbers on the website on Monday and see if they work and if I can get to talk to him or one of his staff.

Sarah x

 

[CopticChristian]

This is so cool.

I feel like I’m in an episode of Bones npatrol:

I’ve emailed the good Doctor asking for the name of the lab and it’s location and for the name of the lab tech that discovered the moving cells and beating tissue. This is a start. If he replies I’ve got tons of questions about why he wrote no scientific papers for peer review on this ‘‘miracle’’ and if, as a pathologist, he did further studies on heart tissues, since a beating living heart tissue outside of the body turns medicine and science on it’s head.

I’ve not had a reply yet but I’ll keep you in the loop.

Angela Montenegro signing out.

Sarah x

Sarah,

I sent an email…Dr. Coptic you know…and it was returned as not deliverable…I have the phone number and I can call and ask questions…Hello…yes…Hello Dr…this is Dr. Coptic and Sarah and I had some questions…of course…and what are they…

get back to you…

 

[atheistgirl]

Sarah,

I sent an email…Dr. Coptic you know…and it was returned as not deliverable…I have the phone number and I can call and ask questions…Hello…yes…Hello Dr…this is Dr. Coptic and Sarah and I had some questions…of course…and what are they…

get back to you…

I had my email bounce back too as undeliverable, Dr. Coptic ‘‘Bones’’ Christian

Ok, here’s what we need to know for starters:

*What is the name, address and contact number of the lab this discovery was made in?

*What official laboratory records were kept of this event, and where can we get copies of these records?

*What photographic and video evidence was kept and where can we see this?

*What is the name and contact details of the lab tech who worked on the specimen - we will need to interview this perp!

*When presented with this event, what other examinations did you conduct to verify the findings?

*Did you write this up as a paper, and submit it for peer review?

*If not, why not? Considering this effectively turns what we know about biology on it’s head.

*Did this discovery of living cells, and beating tissue, from a heart no longer attached to a living body, influence your subsequent work as a State Pathologist? Meaning, surely this would throw all forensic science and criminal medical investigation out the window - after all, a hotshot lawyer is bound to argue his client didn’t in fact murder Mrs Appleblossom, since her heart is still beating on a microscope glass in a lab somewhere

*What other doctors and scientists of your calibre did you invite to see this phenomenon and how long did this phenomenon last?

*Where is the living beating tissue now, and is it still living and beating?

That’s all I can think of off the top of my head but I’m sure you’ve got much more scientifiky questions

Sarah x

 

[CopticChristian]

I had my email bounce back too as undeliverable, Dr. Coptic ‘‘Bones’’ Christian

Ok, here’s what we need to know for starters:

*What is the name, address and contact number of the lab this discovery was made in?

*What official laboratory records were kept of this event, and where can we get copies of these records?

*What photographic and video evidence was kept and where can we see this?

*What is the name and contact details of the lab tech who worked on the specimen - we will need to interview this perp!

*When presented with this event, what other examinations did you conduct to verify the findings?

*Did you write this up as a paper, and submit it for peer review?

*If not, why not? Considering this effectively turns what we know about biology on it’s head.

*Did this discovery of living cells, and beating tissue, from a heart no longer attached to a living body, influence your subsequent work as a State Pathologist? Meaning, surely this would throw all forensic science and criminal medical investigation out the window - after all, a hotshot lawyer is bound to argue his client didn’t in fact murder Mrs Appleblossom, since her heart is still beating on a microscope glass in a lab somewhere

*What other doctors and scientists of your calibre did you invite to see this phenomenon and how long did this phenomenon last?

*Where is the living beating tissue now, and is it still living and beating?

That’s all I can think of off the top of my head but I’m sure you’ve got much more scientifiky questions

Sarah x

Sarah,

I will do what I can…gotta get the guy on the phone first.kpeople:

 

[atheistgirl]

Sarah,

I will do what I can…gotta get the guy on the phone first.kpeople:

How we doin’ Bones?

Any news?

Sarah x

 

[CopticChristian]

How we doin’ Bones?

Any news?

Sarah x

Busy day…will call tomorrow…

 

[atheistgirl]

Busy day…will call tomorrow…

Sarah x

 

[Bradski]

I agree with you.

From everything I’ve been reading I wouldn’t be ‘‘rejected’’ but rather, I would be encouraged - encouraged to keep searching, keep reading, keep studying, keep discussing … until I eventually believed as you did

Sarah x

Follow the way by which they began; by acting as if they believed, taking the holy water, having masses said, etc. Even this will naturally make you believe, and deaden your acuteness.

Were you channeling Pascal?

And c’mon guys. After running through the complete thread it’s like waiting for the next episode of ‘Be Still My Beating Heart’.

Has anyone talked to the good doctor?

 

[CopticChristian]

Follow the way by which they began; by acting as if they believed, taking the holy water, having masses said, etc. Even this will naturally make you believe, and deaden your acuteness.

Were you channeling Pascal?

And c’mon guys. After running through the complete thread it’s like waiting for the next episode of ‘Be Still My Beating Heart’.

Has anyone talked to the good doctor?

Ask Sarah…

 

[inocente]

How we doin’ Bones?

Any news?

Sarah x

I did half-hour of searching:

1. The guy talking in the video is Ricardo Castañón Gómez, who on his Facebook page says he a psychologist with qualifications from all over the shop, which may well be bogus - I found no independent confirmation and a warning has been added to his very brief Wiki page (which he could have written himself) about there being no accredited references.
2. He says he is a member of el Grupo Internacional para la Paz, which sounds mighty impressive but doesn’t seem to exist.
3. In written accounts of the events, for instance here, here and here, Dr Zugibe the real-life pathologist becomes Dr Stigibe, a non-existent heart specialist, or at least I can’t find him. Castañón wrote these after his video was uploaded on YouTube, so it’s possible his only connection with Zugibe is getting a cease and desist order from Zugibe’s lawyer, hence the name change.
4. The “it’s still beating!” claim isn’t in the written version. Perhaps market research indicated it was too unbelievable.
5. However, if you google the video’s title in English, it’s surprising how many people just swallow it unquestioningly, as if everything on YouTube must be true.

 

[atheistgirl]

I did half-hour of searching:

1. The guy talking in the video is Ricardo Castañón Gómez, who on his Facebook page says he a psychologist with qualifications from all over the shop, which may well be bogus - I found no independent confirmation and a warning has been added to his very brief Wiki page (which he could have written himself) about there being no accredited references.
2. He says he is a member of el Grupo Internacional para la Paz, which sounds mighty impressive but doesn’t seem to exist.
3. In written accounts of the events, for instance here, here and here, Dr Zugibe the real-life pathologist becomes Dr Stigibe, a non-existent heart specialist, or at least I can’t find him. Castañón wrote these after his video was uploaded on YouTube, so it’s possible his only connection with Zugibe is getting a cease and desist order from Zugibe’s lawyer, hence the name change.
4. The “it’s still beating!” claim isn’t in the written version. Perhaps market research indicated it was too unbelievable.
5. However, if you google the video’s title in English, it’s surprising how many people just swallow it unquestioningly, as if everything on YouTube must be true.

Awesome job

This also makes interesting reading as he is involved with Catalina Rivas and involved with the establishment of her group, the Apostolate of the New Evangelization.

skepdic.com/rivas.html

He’s running one of his conferences in August and it’s $150 to attend.

He sells books and dvd’s.

He doesn’t seem to have an active medical practice, but seems to spend all his time writing books and doing the circuit regarding the Eucharistic Miracle he’s associated with and related issues of faith.



Time to start following the money.

Sarah x

 

[CopticChristian]

Awesome job

This also makes interesting reading as he is involved with Catalina Rivas and involved with the establishment of her group, the Apostolate of the New Evangelization.

skepdic.com/rivas.html

He’s running one of his conferences in August and it’s $150 to attend.

He sells books and dvd’s.

He doesn’t seem to have an active medical practice, but seems to spend all his time writing books and doing the circuit regarding the Eucharistic Miracle he’s associated with and related issues of faith.



Time to start following the money.

Sarah x

Sarah,

I called Dr. Zugibe and the number listed is the same as the fax and rings a private residence. I have not had time to review the information of Innocente. I would ask for clarification of that information. I have no patience right now to read all that. I see something about a cease and desist but did not see that or is this conjecture?

 

[CopticChristian]

Awesome job

This also makes interesting reading as he is involved with Catalina Rivas and involved with the establishment of her group, the Apostolate of the New Evangelization.

skepdic.com/rivas.html

He’s running one of his conferences in August and it’s $150 to attend.

He sells books and dvd’s.

He doesn’t seem to have an active medical practice, but seems to spend all his time writing books and doing the circuit regarding the Eucharistic Miracle he’s associated with and related issues of faith.



Time to start following the money.

Sarah x

Sarah,

This is all interesting and I don’t mind following up on the information. The thread is “Science cannot destroy Religion”…I accept that means good and bad science…the jury is out on the science at hand…

In the end the results do not change what you believe, what Innocente believes or what I believe…Science cannot destroy Religion.

You may want to start a thread on this as a thread unto intelf…It would be interesting.

 

[CopticChristian]

Awesome job

This also makes interesting reading as he is involved with Catalina Rivas and involved with the establishment of her group, the Apostolate of the New Evangelization.

skepdic.com/rivas.html

He’s running one of his conferences in August and it’s $150 to attend.

He sells books and dvd’s.

He doesn’t seem to have an active medical practice, but seems to spend all his time writing books and doing the circuit regarding the Eucharistic Miracle he’s associated with and related issues of faith.



Time to start following the money.

Sarah x

Sarah,

This is getting off track…nothing here is going to change what I believe, what Innocente believes or you believe…Science good or bad cannot destroy Religion.

The jury is out on this and it may be worth starting a thread on this, I will participate if you do so…Ok

 

[atheistgirl]

Sarah,

This is getting off track…nothing here is going to change what I believe, what Innocente believes or you believe…Science good or bad cannot destroy Religion.

The jury is out on this and it may be worth starting a thread on this, I will participate if you do so…Ok

It’s not my intention to change yours or anyones belief, in anything.

I have been asked about miracles though, and why I dismiss them.

In the interest of thorough fairness, and I disclosed this, I haven’t, until now, looked at any indepth.

As a result of the cursory reading I’ve done, I see issues with them all.

But as this miracle of the Eucharist was presented to me as proof of God since it can’t be explained, it’s only fair to look thoroughly at it before dismissing it as not being credible.

This I’ve done, and continue to do, and everything I’ve uncovered (with the help of others too) points to my initial assessment being right.

It’s not credible.

This won’t stop anyone believing what they want to believe - of course it won’t. But I can be honest and say, yes, I’ve looked closely at a Eucharistic miracle, this is what I found, and this is why it’s not credible - to me.

Don’t worry about calling the good Doctor.

I’m on the road until Thursday and only dipping into my fav websites as and when I can, so Friday I shall call the good Doctor myself when I get home, point him to this discussion for background before asking him anything, and if he agrees to talk to me, he will be made fully aware I’ll be reporting everything he says back.

I’ve added some more questions to the original list as they popped into my head

I’ll keep you posted



Sarah x

 

[inocente]

Sarah,

This is getting off track…nothing here is going to change what I believe, what Innocente believes or you believe…Science good or bad cannot destroy Religion.

The jury is out on this and it may be worth starting a thread on this, I will participate if you do so…Ok

There can also be good and bad religion, and it isn’t good religion to get taken in by charlatans. This particular story seems to change every time Castañón tells it. If it were true the tissue would contain the DNA of Christ, which would be of incredible importance and value, yet supposedly the Cardinal casually gives it to Castañon, who has no expertise, and neither the local Church or Vatican have said anything about it.

I’d hope that as the world becomes better educated, fewer and fewer will get taken in by faux miracle tales. There’s a chance that good science can destroy bad religion, leaving just the good stuff remaining.

 

[Lochias]

This won’t stop anyone believing what they want to believe - of course it won’t. But I can be honest and say, yes, I’ve looked closely at a Eucharistic miracle, this is what I found, and this is why it’s not credible - to me.
Sarah x

One down, many more to go. Don’t forget the Miracle of Fatima, incorruptible corpses (at least a couple dozen), eyewitnesses to Padre Pio’s manifested stigmata, and many more. No stone unturned!

(Unless you are willing to shore up your disbelief on one account that may be debunked. In that case, I can only applaud a sense of faith that many Catholics do not have!)

Get on it, Bones. There are months and months to debunk them all…let’s go!

 

[PRmerger]

(Unless you are willing to shore up your disbelief on one account that may be debunked. In that case, I can only applaud a sense of faith that many Catholics do not have!)

That’s what I keep saying to atheists. You have a faith that has surpassed many Catholics.