Science can't destroy Religion

[Lochias]

A wonderful, trenchant comment and I am saving that one on my harddrive!

Thank you. Give the credit to God, it wasn’t me.

 

[atheistgirl]

Murdering the unborn is a good place to start.

Oh please - are you seriously suggesting the largest numbers of women who abort are atheists.

Read this.

It’s an old study but look at the religious breakdown.

These figures appear to be more recent, and still we find that more than half of all the abortions are being had by Protestants and Catholics combined.

Sarah x

 

[davidv]

Oh please - are you seriously suggesting the largest numbers of women who abort are atheists.

They may not label themselves as such, but they are clearly acting as if God doesn’t exist.

Read this.

It’s an old study but look at the religious breakdown.

These figures appear to be more recent, and still we find that more than half of all the abortions are being had by Protestants and Catholics combined.

Sarah x

 

[atheistgirl]

If this is something you are unwilling to do, despite how you feel, there is nothing on earth that will help you find a sense of faith.

I have to tell you honestly, nope, I’m not willing to sit down and pray to a Deity I do not believe is there. It makes no sense to do so.

I would change my position on this in a heartbeat if I could find even the smallest piece of credible evidence to do so, but, perhaps even unfortunately, for me, I can’t.

Would you, if asked by a Muslim, who was trying to prove to you the Hindu faith was the one true faith, sit down and pray to their gods, to help you find a sense of their faith?

Of course you wouldn’t.

Science can never destroy faith,

I know.

I’ve said so.

I don’t believe science will ever destroy faith. There will always be people capable of believing just about anything, despite the evidence. Just look at the Flatearthers

Good luck, Sarah. (God will never give up on you; that is His greatest power, not spinning suns or ever-fresh bodies. I am glad to count you as a friend, if you wish to do likewise.)

I am glad, and very happy, to count you as a friend.

We may not agree, possibly ever, but it’s always lovely to converse with you and I’m happy that I can count you as a friend here.

:hug3:

Sarah x

 

[Lochias]

Oh please - are you seriously suggesting the largest numbers of women who abort are atheists.

Read this.

It’s an old study but look at the religious breakdown.

These figures appear to be more recent, and still we find that more than half of all the abortions are being had by Protestants and Catholics combined.

Sarah x

They can call themselves whatever they’d like. It’s not the Church’s idea to murder children, and it hasn’t been for 2000+ years.

Secular society, without recourse to the wisdom of the Church, has drifted for many long years, and such ways of thinking have poisoned the minds of many.

 

[Lochias]

I have to tell you honestly, nope, I’m not willing to sit down and pray to a Deity I do not believe is there. It makes no sense to do so.v

If you do something for a very short while each day that makes no sense, will you turn into a pumpkin at midnight? Have you ever eaten a rich-tasting dessert after a large dinner, and then wondered why on earth you did so when the stomach ace kicks in? Have you ever drank until you were ill the entire next day?

If you can say “yes” to any of these, or something similar, then you’ve already done something that made no sense to do at the time. It’s easy, really.

Would you, if asked by a Muslim, who was trying to prove to you the Hindu faith was the one true faith, sit down and pray to their gods, to help you find a sense of their faith?

Of course you wouldn’t.

In believing in God as a devout Muslim does, we already have more in common than not. There is fertile and beautiful ground for both of us in that regard.

I don’t believe science will ever destroy faith. There will always be people capable of believing just about anything, despite the evidence. Just look at the Flatearthers :eek

:

Human life is made of beliefs, hopes and dreams, no matter who we are. It is the common canvas that God painted us all on.

I am glad, and very happy, to count you as a friend.

We may not agree, possibly ever, but it’s always lovely to converse with you and I’m happy that I can count you as a friend here.

:hug3:

:aok: Glad to hear it. Friends is a good thing, ayup.

 

[atheistgirl]

I say this without meaning to offend when I say that perhaps you should stop talking, and start listening and doing.

If you mean by that, I should take time to sit in stillness and free my mind, I do this every single day of my life.

It’s neither meditation or contemplation in the traditional sense - it’s simply relaxing my mind and brain and letting go while focusing on some aspect of nature.

I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve watched the sun rise, the sun set, a storm, danced in the rain, or just watched the stars in the sky, and marvelled at the complete majesty and beauty of it all.

But never have I ever even felt a twinge of something of the Divine in all of this.

To me, it is simply nature - cold majestic beautiful nature, that doesn’t know or care about me, or that I’m even here, a nature that would wipe my existence out in a flash were I in the wrong place at the wrong time, and yet it’s beauty touches the very depth of my being - because I too am part of this earthy nature.

Sarah x

 

[Lochias]

If you mean by that, I should take time to sit in stillness and free my mind, I do this every single day of my life.

It’s neither meditation or contemplation in the traditional sense - it’s simply relaxing my mind and brain and letting go while focusing on some aspect of nature.

I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve watched the sun rise, the sun set, a storm, danced in the rain, or just watched the stars in the sky, and marvelled at the complete majesty and beauty of it all.

But never have I ever even felt a twinge of something of the Divine in all of this.

To me, it is simply nature - cold majestic beautiful nature, that doesn’t know or care about me, or that I’m even here, a nature that would wipe my existence out in a flash were I in the wrong place at the wrong time, and yet it’s beauty touches the very depth of my being - because I too am part of this earthy nature.

Not exactly what I meant, but beautiful all the same. I do much the same when I go storm-chasing…thunderstorms, and even tornadoes, hold something that speaks to me of things larger than myself, and I find a definite peace in that.

By listening and doing, I meant trying some form of daily prayer, even if you don’t feel like it and think it will work, in a spirit of seeking.

The listening is what you do after you pray, and go about your day.

 

[Al_Moritz]

Well, it had to be, since observatories around the world reported nothing unusual.

Stare at the sun (!!!don’t, you’ll damage your eyesight!!!) but if you did, you’ll notice a couple of things happening - the eye will strain and you’ll get the effect of the sun ‘‘dancing’’ as your eye struggles to focus, protect itself, refocus and so on.

Critics have highlighted that eye witness accounts contradict each other, which makes sense of course since each persons ability to stare at the sun, and it’s effects on that persons eyes, wille be different, but they will all experience some sort of optical event and the eyes struggle.

You have obviously gotten your information from skeptical websites, and not from the eywitnesses themselves. Multiple witnesses have expressly stated that it was highly unusual that during the miracle you could directly look at the sun without getting your eyes hurt, and that after the miracle they had to turn away their eyes from the sun for the usual reasons.

Your explanation, correct as it would be under regular circumstances of staring at the sun, fails.

 

[Al_Moritz]

BTW, the eyewitness accounts are remarkably consistent. Yes, they do vary in details, but that is what you always will have with eyewitness testimonies.

In fact, it would be suspicious if they were cokkie-cutter alike (that usually happens when witnesses collude to ‘get their stories staright’). On the other hand, they do not difffer as widely as to raise sufficient suspicion the other way. In other words, taken together they sound like credible accounts.

 

[Al_Moritz]

Sorry about the typos in my last post.

 

[atheistgirl]

Your explanation, correct as it would be under regular circumstances of staring at the sun, fails.

Rain clounds were present apparently. It’s possible they looked at the sun at times when it wasn’t too intense, but the physical effects on the eye would be the same - when the cloulds cleared - naturally, the sun would appear brighter and stronger.

I would so much have loved for even one observatory, anywhere, at the time of the event, to report something unusual. Anything.

But it just didn’t happen.



That’s enough for me to think it’s not credible. For believers, it confirms their faith and that miracles do occur and I understand than.

But not for me. Bit I am happy to look at some of these more closely, because I can then honestly answer yes I have looked at the claims, and honestly, to me, they lack credibility.

Sarah x

 

[Al_Moritz]

Rain clounds were present apparently. It’s possible they looked at the sun at times when it wasn’t too intense, but the physical effects on the eye would be the same - when the cloulds cleared - naturally, the sun would appear brighter and stronger.

No, it wouldn’t be the same. I stated explicitly that they could look at the sun unhindered by any discomfort the entire duration of the miracle, and only had to turn away their eyes once the sun started to shine normally again.

I would so much have loved for even one observatory, anywhere, at the time of the event, to report something unusual. Anything.

But it just didn’t happen.

Because it was a local meteorological phenomenon, not an astronomical one.

 

[FurtherSuntime]

deleted

 

[ASimon]

Because it was a local meteorological phenomenon, not an astronomical one.

Did the sun move or not?

 

[Al_Moritz]

Did the sun move or not?

Of course not. Otherwise planet Earth would be toast. It was an optical phenomenon, like Northern lights (even though presumably by an entirely different mechanism).

Again, as I said, it could not have been an astronomical phenomenon.

 

[ASimon]

Of course not. Otherwise planet Earth would be toast. It was an optical phenomenon, like Northern lights (even though presumably by an entirely different mechanism).

Again, as I said, it could not have been an astronomical phenomenon.

Alright, but do you realize the implications of calling this an 'optical phenomenon?

 

[Al_Moritz]

Alright, but do you realize the implications of calling this an 'optical phenomenon?

If you mean hallucinations or illusions, no. Northern lights aren’t hallucinations or illusions either.

 

[buffalo]

Al, I thought I remembered reports that the sun came toward the people and they felt the increase in heat and dried their clothes and the mud.

 

[ASimon]

If you mean hallucinations or illusions, no. Northern lights aren’t hallucinations or illusions either.

The Northern Lights phenomenon has a very well-understood scientific cause. What I was suggesting was that, in a species with eyes that are identically constructed, something like what allegedly happened at Fatima can also be scientifically explained (at least, in principle). In that sense, it wouldn’t surprise me to know that many people in the field that day reported seeing roughly the same thing. In hindsight, it was practically an impromptu science experiment.