Science fiction films and Islam

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jack_hawkins

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Has anyone ever noticed how often in sci-fi or fantasy films there is an evil religion/race that preaches “convert or be killed”? Does anyone think some of these may be modelled on Islam? The similarity seems eery in some cases eg
Klingons in Star Trek
Necromongers (spp?) in that film with Vin Diesel in
Thulsa Doom and his cult in Conan the Barbarian
I’m sure there’s more, just can’t think of them at the moment

PS forgive my verbal diarrhoea, having to look after post-op wife
 
jack_hawkins said:
Has anyone ever noticed how often in sci-fi or fantasy films there is an evil religion/race that preaches “convert or be killed”? Does anyone think some of these may be modelled on Islam? The similarity seems eery in some cases eg
Klingons in Star Trek
Necromongers (spp?) in that film with Vin Diesel in
Thulsa Doom and his cult in Conan the Barbarian
I’m sure there’s more, just can’t think of them at the moment

PS forgive my verbal diarrhoea, having to look after post-op wife
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They could be modeled upon any militantly missionary religion or ideology.
 
I don’t know. I’ve noticed Islam in SciFi but I’ve never got the impression that aggressive aliens were based on it.

In the case of the below:

Klingons: Klingons are more mongolian and while they are certainly violent and expansionistic it is done for the violence and the glory not for religious submission.

Necromongers: I see what you’re saying but since the actual religion of Islam seems to be the default religion of the Human race in this series of films then I don’t think the Necromongers could be based on it.

Thulsa Doom: 2000 points just for bringing this guy and Conan up 👍

It could have been based on Islam but again since it actually referenced an real world god (in this case Set) I’m inclined to think that is where their inspiration originated. Could be wrong though.

The story Dune had a lot of Muslim influence though. Of course there Christian influence there as well.
 
Dune - of course! The Butlerian jihad and of course the Mahdi:D
I’m surprised there wasn’t more of a Muslim reaction - but then it was a different world when those books were first published…
yes Klingons wasn’t a good connection I think the inspiration for them was the Russkies!
 
Didn’t the Borg have an “assimilate or die” rally cry, too?

But here’s throwing another idea out at you- could it be fear of conformity rather than fear of Islam driving those authors? Maybe a comment on society’s attempt to stifle the individual? And if all of those examples you cited were authored by Americans, I’d bet the farm THAT was the real message (you know how us Americans are obsessed with fighting conformity 😉 ).

Have fun passing post-op time away!
C
 
I think that aggressive monotheistic religions in sci-fi often have a vaguely Islamic feel simply because the authors do not give them any specific characteristics of any particular monotheistic religion. Often I suspect that the authors actually had fundamentalist Christians in mind.

Edwin
 
Cari said:
Didn’t the Borg have an “assimilate or die” rally cry, too?

But here’s throwing another idea out at you- could it be fear of conformity rather than fear of Islam driving those authors? Maybe a comment on society’s attempt to stifle the individual? And if all of those examples you cited were authored by Americans, I’d bet the farm THAT was the real message (you know how us Americans are obsessed with fighting conformity 😉 ).

Have fun passing post-op time away!
C
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I knew there was one other that I just couldn’t remember - and that was it! Yes, John Birch and all that - the rock group Rush are very much against conformity eg their concept album 2112 and the cover. A sentiment I share.
Fortunately it’s my wife who has had the op, I’m just tending (nursing the nurse).
 
jack_hawkins said:
…that kills people who won’t convert? I only know of one…
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I don’t have figures on how many Jews or Christians Muslims actually forced to decide between death and conversion, but my understanding is that when Muslims took over Egypt, for instance, they did not kill Christians in any sort of mass form. It took several hundred years for Egypt to gradually become more and more Islamic. (Contrast that to what happened in Spain to Jews when the Reconquista had been completed.)

Now, in India, it may have been a different story, since many Muslim invaders into India had much less respect for Buddhism and Hinduism, than they had for Judaism and Christianity. I know that the Muslims killed many hundreds, if not thousands, of Buddhists monks and destroyed Buddhist temples and libraries.

And if you look at the country with the largest Muslim population (Indonesia), you’ll find that it was Muslimized not via forced conversion, or even invasion, but by the godly example of Muslim merchants (most likely from Gujarat and other parts of Muslim India) and Muslim mystics (Sufis).
 
However tempting I wouldn’t go down that road; if you read Mere Christianity you’ll see C.S. Lewis actually had quite a high opinion of Islam.
 
Yes, they very definitely represent Islam don’t they, when you look at the cultural cues.
CS Lewis saw Islam for what it is, Kadaveri. Have you read the book in question (The Last Battle) ? Then you will see that he represents the God Tash as evil incarnate (and most of the Calormenes as wicked) , but some of his worshippers as Godly, sincere but misled. Right on the money. Tashlan is a fiction - also quite a repudiation of Islam.
 
Oh peoples… reading this thread just wants to make me cry…
What about darth vader in star wars!!!
I remember one particular line in the empire strikes back when he talks to the emperor…
‘He will join us or die master’
Now if that isnt a line mohummads followers use, i dont know what is!!!
 
dolphinlove said:
Oh peoples… reading this thread just wants to make me cry…
What about darth vader in star wars!!!
I remember one particular line in the empire strikes back when he talks to the emperor…
‘He will join us or die master’
Now if that isnt a line mohummads followers use, i dont know what is!!!
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It could have been a line uttered by any number of crusaders. If we are now relying on science fiction to attack Islam, then maybe we have finally played this topic out and can move on to discussing something who’s purpose is not to make us feel better than others.
 
Valke2 said:
It could have been a line uttered by any number of crusaders. If we are now relying on science fiction to attack Islam, then maybe we have finally played this topic out and can move on to discussing something who’s purpose is not to make us feel better than others.
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Valke, please - lighten up:cool:
it was just a thought…
yes, throughout history many different groups may have had this philosophy but I was talking about modern times?
and the CS Lewis story is definitely talking about Islam
don’t you agree allegory is a useful instrument?
 
jack_hawkins said:
Have you read the book in question (The Last Battle) ? Then you will see that he represents the God Tash as evil incarnate (and most of the Calormenes as wicked) , but some of his worshippers as Godly, sincere but misled. Right on the money. Tashlan is a fiction - also quite a repudiation of Islam.
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C.S. Lewis also wrote Dionysius and Bacchus into his Narnia series as ALLIES of Aslan (Jesus)! quite a repudiation of Christ.
 
Hubie said:
C.S. Lewis also wrote Dionysius and Bacchus into his Narnia series as ALLIES of Aslan (Jesus)! quite a repudiation of Christ.
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you think?
the stories are allegories remember
 
jack_hawkins said:
Yes, they very definitely represent Islam don’t they, when you look at the cultural cues.
CS Lewis saw Islam for what it is, Kadaveri. Have you read the book in question (The Last Battle) ? Then you will see that he represents the God Tash as evil incarnate (and most of the Calormenes as wicked) , but some of his worshippers as Godly, sincere but misled. Right on the money. Tashlan is a fiction - also quite a repudiation of Islam.
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The Calormenes can’t possibly represent Islam the religion, because they are polytheists and worship idols. They represent the European Christian stereotype of dark-skinned cruel pagans. Lewis drew on the Arabian Nights and possibly on relatively early medieval portraits of Islam such as the Song of Roland (in which Muslims are bizarrely portrayed as polytheists). To suggest that the Calormenes are a serious portrait of Islam is both to take the imagery in the Narnia books way too seriously and to ascribe some pretty abysmal ignorance to Lewis.

Edwin
 
Valke2 said:
It could have been a line uttered by any number of crusaders. If we are now relying on science fiction to attack Islam, then maybe we have finally played this topic out and can move on to discussing something who’s purpose is not to make us feel better than others.
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Oh Valke2, ease up…
Not trying to make myself feel better than others!
There is a scary parallel in what i brought up and shared it thats all…
In a few Islam countries, isnt it a case of join them or die?? The similarities is mind boggling…
 
dolphinlove said:
Oh Valke2, ease up…
Not trying to make myself feel better than others!
There is a scary parallel in what i brought up and shared it thats all…
In a few Islam countries, isnt it a case of join them or die?? The similarities is mind boggling…
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Why mind-boggling? This makes no sense whatever. It’s like saying that because James Bond villains want to take over the world therefore they must be referring to Hitler.

These are common archetypes, not topical references.

Edwin
 
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