Science on God

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On God’s Eternity

Science teaches that whatever created the Universe had to have no beginning.

On God’s Omnipotence

Science teaches that whatever created the Universe had to have infinite power

On God’s Omniprescence

Science teaches that all time is one. Yet we see things in sequences. So time being one must exist for whatever created the Universe.

On God’s Omniscience

Science teaches that whatever created the Universe requires infinite knowledge

On God Being Spirit

Science teaches that whatever created the Universe had to surpass the universal laws. Spirits fit this category of being.
 
I am currently “discussing” the issue of Science vs God with my son. He no longer believes in God and thinks that science answers all questions. I sure could use some help. Do you have anything that backs up what you stated?
 
On God’s Eternity

Science teaches that whatever created the Universe had to have no beginning.

On God’s Omnipotence

Science teaches that whatever created the Universe had to have infinite power

On God’s Omniprescence

Science teaches that all time is one. Yet we see things in sequences. So time being one must exist for whatever created the Universe.

On God’s Omniscience

Science teaches that whatever created the Universe requires infinite knowledge

On God Being Spirit

Science teaches that whatever created the Universe had to surpass the universal laws. Spirits fit this category of being.
I’ve never heard anything like this before. Where does science teach the things you claim?
 
I am currently “discussing” the issue of Science vs God with my son. He no longer believes in God and thinks that science answers all questions. I sure could use some help. Do you have anything that backs up what you stated?
PMo,

Ask your son “Where did the natural laws come from”? The natural laws cannot themselves answer the question of their own origins, because they weren’t around to be able to create themselves! By its very nature the question requires a supernatural answer.

Ask him “Why don’t the natural laws change?” or “Who enforces the natural laws?”, both questions that no natural law can address.

Ask him to “prove” or “quantify” the amount of love that you have for him.

Science is wonderful. I love it, which is why I do it for a living. But all too often people make science its own god and think that it is limitless. Addressing its shortcomings brings people to the realization that there is, indeed, room for faith:)

You may also want to check out some of the discussion going on on the “Scientific Atheism” thread. If you have any other questions, please let me know. I am praying for your son.
 
I think it depends on the science and some scientists are atheistic such as Richard Dawkins etc. More religious science is a theory like Intelligent Design. Some people say that science is objective however I believe that science is very subjective. If a person wants to prove something then they will try their hardest. Scientific method depends on what a person wants to test however the results are meant to be objective. Certain subjects may not be an area of interest to scientists and they have their own agenda. Other areas of scientific investigation don’t receive government funding.

scientificmethod.com/b_index.html
 
If this is true, then there is no need for faith anymore.
 
Geoformeo,

Thank you for the help. I really appreciate it and will certainly give this a try.

To make matters even more difficult, my son is a die-hard conspiracy theorist. :doh2: I keep praying that this is just a phase he is going thru…he’s 31. 🤷 To show what I’m dealing with, here is part of the last email he sent:

**There was a time when humans (in whatever form they existed hundreds of thousands of years ago) had no concept of any ‘being’ larger/greater than themselves. As time progressed, a few of the smarter ones started realizing that people have a need to explain everything and there was a big hole concerning things that couldn’t be explained (why are we here? how did we come into existence? How are birds, trees, wind made?) The “smarter” ones realized they could exploit these holes by creating the concept of a ‘higher being’ that is responsible for these unexplainable things and that they are able to communicate with this ‘higher being’ so the masses should listen to them since they are a conduit to this ‘higher being’. Thus were born the medicine men, witch doctors, priests, oracles, etc. They were/are able to manipulate the fears/insecurities/uncertainties of the masses in the most brilliant way possible…by hanging the fear of their god over them and the idea of what will happen to them after they die. It was/is a massive power grab. No other set of ideas, beliefs or institutions has as much control over people as religion.

The religions in power today are merely the stronger ones that have been able to squash and demonize other religions and attract followers by offering what the people want at the time. How else can you explain the vast numbers of religions and gods/goddesses/demi-gods that have existed over the last hundred thousand years or so? There are core psychological traits in humans that haven’t changed all that much over time. We are subject to heard mentality, we fear the unknown and have a incessant need to explain everything. You put these traits together and it’s a perfect environment for religion and the power hungry humans know this and exploit it by either getting into politics/religion/banking. People are weak and prone to being manipulated. It’s mind blowing when you think about it that an individual would be willing to make the most extreme sacrifice in giving their life at the command of another person as people do when they listen to their political and religious leaders.**

Where did I go wrong in raising him??? :banghead:
 
To show what I’m dealing with, here is part of the last email he sent:
Honestly, your son’s analysis seems spot on. You should be proud to have a critical thinker for a son.

Anyway, he is right when he said that our emotional climate is perfect for religion: humans tend to sacrifice freedom for security, do they not? They fear the thought that this is their one and only life, do they not? They wish to be appreciated by powerful people (God being the ultimate example of a powerful person), do they not?

You don’t know how much I would love to believe that a benevolent being is watching over me and will grant me eternal life (heck, even if the life is spent in Hell, it’s better than not existing!). But I see this desire as being just that: a desire. It is wishful thinking.
Where did I go wrong in raising him??? :banghead:
You attempted to snuff out his curiosity with dogma. At least, that’s what I currently make of your character.
 
**There was a time when humans (in whatever form they existed hundreds of thousands of years ago) had no concept of any ‘being’ larger/greater than themselves. As time progressed, a few of the smarter ones started realizing that people have a need to explain everything and there was a big hole concerning things that couldn’t be explained (why are we here? how did we come into existence? How are birds, trees, wind made?) The “smarter” ones realized they could exploit these holes by creating the concept of a ‘higher being’ that is responsible for these unexplainable things and that they are able to communicate with this ‘higher being’ so the masses should listen to them since they are a conduit to this ‘higher being’. Thus were born the medicine men, witch doctors, priests, oracles, etc. They were/are able to manipulate the fears/insecurities/uncertainties of the masses in the most brilliant way possible…by hanging the fear of their god over them and the idea of what will happen to them after they die. It was/is a massive power grab. No other set of ideas, beliefs or institutions has as much control over people as religion.

The religions in power today are merely the stronger ones that have been able to squash and demonize other religions and attract followers by offering what the people want at the time. How else can you explain the vast numbers of religions and gods/goddesses/demi-gods that have existed over the last hundred thousand years or so? There are core psychological traits in humans that haven’t changed all that much over time. We are subject to heard mentality, we fear the unknown and have a incessant need to explain everything. You put these traits together and it’s a perfect environment for religion and the power hungry humans know this and exploit it by either getting into politics/religion/banking. People are weak and prone to being manipulated. It’s mind blowing when you think about it that an individual would be willing to make the most extreme sacrifice in giving their life at the command of another person as people do when they listen to their political and religious leaders.**

Where did I go wrong in raising him??? :banghead:
PMo,

I agree with Oreoracle that you should be proud to have a critical thinker as a son, but that’s about all I agree with him about.

It’s true that religion is a powerful manipulative tool, in the wrong hands. This can be seen in the Arab world right now, but also in the Christian world. How many powerful preachers attain their position out of selfishness and manipulation? Tons.

Agree with your son – up to a point. He says that people take advantage of other people’s desire for ultimate consolation. But consider: do people take advantage of other people’s desire to love? Yes. Does this prove that there is no such thing as love? No. Do people take advantage of other people’s desire for money? Yes. Does this mean there is no such thing as money? No.

His point does not disprove religion; it only proves that religion is used by unrighteous men for their own ends. But – apart from religion – how can your son accuse these men of being unrighteous? Is there any right or wrong apart from God? How can we justly criticize Hitler, unless there be some positive standard to set him against?

At the root of his skepticism, I imagine, is something deeper: some emotional pain, I imagine. He might be angry at God, or (as he would prefer) angry at the universe. Or he might just find it convenient to criticize religion, because he doesn’t want to live by its teachings. There is a lot of depth here, I’m sure. Pray about it, and pray for him.

The Hound of Heaven is quick and agile, and you can be sure that He’s after him. 😉
 
On God’s Eternity

Science teaches that whatever created the Universe had to have no beginning.

On God’s Omnipotence

Science teaches that whatever created the Universe had to have infinite power

On God’s Omniprescence

Science teaches that all time is one. Yet we see things in sequences. So time being one must exist for whatever created the Universe.

On God’s Omniscience

Science teaches that whatever created the Universe requires infinite knowledge

On God Being Spirit

Science teaches that whatever created the Universe had to surpass the universal laws. Spirits fit this category of being.
.
 
Where did I go wrong in raising him???
Um, isn’t that being a bit harsh on yourself? It also implies religion only takes root if it is spoon fed from childhood?
 
PMo,

You’re very welcome. Feel free to bring any science/religion confrontation questions you may have to me, and I’ll do my best to address them. As to thoughts from your son’s email:
There was a time when humans (in whatever form they existed hundreds of thousands of years ago) had no concept of any ‘being’ larger/greater than themselves.
Actually, this is not true from an anthropological standpoint. Neanderthals buried their dead some 200,000 years ago with their personal belongings, implying a belief in an eternal resting place and, presumably, a deity. Every human ancestor of the genus Homo showed similar religious ritualistic practices, and every single human (Homo sapiens) culture that has ever existed has had some form of religious belief in a God or gods. The arrival of the concept of a being larger than ourselves came with the institution of consciousness and the soul into the first true humans, Adam and Eve. Therefore, there was never a time when “humans” as conscious beings existed without a knowledge of God.
As time progressed, a few of the smarter ones started realizing that people have a need to explain everything and there was a big hole concerning things that couldn’t be explained (why are we here? how did we come into existence? How are birds, trees, wind made?) The “smarter” ones realized they could exploit these holes by creating the concept of a ‘higher being’ that is responsible for these unexplainable things and that they are able to communicate with this ‘higher being’ so the masses should listen to them since they are a conduit to this ‘higher being’. Thus were born the medicine men, witch doctors, priests, oracles, etc.
I don’t know why some people insist that God was a made-up concept at some point in time. Did these same people make up beauty, truth, love, and justice too, or do these things not really exist? Logic would have told primitive man (as it does today) that, set apart as we are from the rest of the animal kingdom, we are a part of something far greater than ourselves (the universe), and this universe requires an explanation for its existence (God). The very first man would have (did) known this.

Ironically, the quote from your son above could be used analogously for modern man’s “witch doctors” (militant atheist scientists) who claim to be able to answer all of the unexplainable things through the conduit of science, and are using the power of science to manipulate the masses to accept horrific attacks on the human person through abortion, euthanasia, stem cell research, eugenics, and the like. Of course, simple logic, the human heart, and science itself tells us otherwise.
They were/are able to manipulate the fears/insecurities/uncertainties of the masses in the most brilliant way possible…by hanging the fear of their god over them and the idea of what will happen to them after they die. It was/is a massive power grab. No other set of ideas, beliefs or institutions has as much control over people as religion.
No doubt there has been an abuse of power using religion throughout the course of human history. But the real question is why does religion continue to have so much control over people? Could it not be that at their very core of being, humans know that they are going to have to answer to someone for their actions during their lifetime? That the quest for the divine is programmed into us because the divine really exists? To use C.S. Lewis’ logic, just as we humans crave food, shelter, and love (things that really exist), why would we have an intrinsic desire to search for something (God) that doesn’t exist?
The religions in power today are merely the stronger ones that have been able to squash and demonize other religions and attract followers by offering what the people want at the time. How else can you explain the vast numbers of religions and gods/goddesses/demi-gods that have existed over the last hundred thousand years or so?
I’d be curious to hear how he reconciles this belief with the rise of Christianity, especially considering the persecutions that the early Christians survived in the Church’s first 300+ years. Is it possible that the religions in power today are present because they reflect a better understanding of God than the religions of the past, just as we have a better understanding of the natural world today than we did long ago?
There are core psychological traits in humans that haven’t changed all that much over time. We are subject to heard mentality, we fear the unknown and have a incessant need to explain everything. You put these traits together and it’s a perfect environment for religion and the power hungry humans know this and exploit it by either getting into politics/religion/banking. People are weak and prone to being manipulated. It’s mind blowing when you think about it that an individual would be willing to make the most extreme sacrifice in giving their life at the command of another person as people do when they listen to their political and religious leaders.
Yet here he is, thinking about these things. Does mere matter “think”? Yes, we humans most certainly have our limitations, but we also have our strengths. It is mind blowing that more people don’t realize how God-like our consciousness, conscience, and free will truly are.

I hope this helps a little. Keep your chin up, PMo. You both are in my prayers.
 
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