Science & Religion

[tonyrey]

Orthodox Baptists believe that there are three Persons who know and love one another - and that we are made in their image and likeness (certainly not because of our physical resemblance!)

If there are no orthodox Baptists they must be free to believe what they like. That explains why you’re one of them!

The way you phrased it sounds strange too - surely no monotheist believes in “three Persons who know and love one another” but that they coexist in unity?

So you’re not a Trinitarian either?

Generally speaking Baptists don’t believe baptism has any supernatural power, nor in holy water, nor in sanctified ground.

Then why do they bother to baptise?

Ghosts, vampires, zombies, etc. are somewhat superfluous given we believe in dust to dust, that when you’re dead you’re dead until judgment day.

So there is a big gap in your life! I wonder what happens to the soul in the meantime…

I do believe in trolls though, and so am starting to wonder as this is the third time you’ve refused to answer my question and instead tried to turn it back on me. Try again or see you around.

Since I have answered and you’ve ignored my answers - like many of my other statements - it is not surprising you’re so eager to cop out! Name-calling is a common excuse - but you’re fooling no one but yourself…

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Anastasia

**Charles, it seems an assumption on your part to claim that “nobody can produce the evidence.” **

The problem with proving how the big Bang occurred or why is forever shrouded in mystery. No scientists can go back 15 billion years and observe the Big Bang from inside the first seconds the universe began to exist. Theories are possible, but it will never be possible to prove anything by actual evidence.

The same problem exists in biology. It will never be possible to prove how abiogenesis happened. We know it did happen, but science will never be able to prove that it happened **as a random combination **of atoms and molecules. Those who say life was intelligently designed simply have the upper hand. Life looks like it was intelligently designed. It does not look at all as though it came about by sheer accident.

 

[tonyrey]

To me soul

1705 By virtue of his soul and his spiritual powers of intellect and will, man is endowed with freedom, an “outstanding manifestation of the divine image.”

It would be fascinating to know how **a quality has an intellect and will - and is endowed with freedom…
**

Up to fifty percent of conceptions end up being flushed out of the mother’s body – often long before she even realizes she was pregnant – because the genetics of the conception is so screwed up they are what geneticists call “incompatible with life.” Does this mean that fifty percent of human “souls” were never attached to a body, that they never made a moral decision, and that they enter into eternity without ever having lived a human moral life? It’s an interesting conundrum.

It seems very odd - but understandable where scientists are concerned - to reach a theological conclusion on the basis of a biological fact…

Is it necessary to have a body to make a moral decision?

 

[StAnastasia]

It seems very odd - but understandable where scientists are concerned - to reach a theological conclusion on the basis of a biological fact…Is it necessary to have a body to make a moral decision?

Well, all the people I’ve ever met who make moral decisions have bodies. I suppose there could be an imaginary decision maker that does not have a body.

 

[buffalo]

Well, all the people I’ve ever met who make moral decisions have bodies. I suppose there could be an imaginary decision maker that does not have a body.

Angels are imaginary?

 

[StAnastasia]

Angels are imaginary?

I’ve never met a decision-making angel; in fact, I’ve never met an angel. There was Clarence, of course, on the snowy bridge, who finally earned his wings.

 

[buffalo]

I’ve never met a decision-making angel; in fact, I’ve never met an angel. There was Clarence, of course, on the snowy bridge, who finally earned his wings.

Do you have a guardian angel? yes or no

 

[StAnastasia]

Do you have a guardian angel? yes or no

Insufficient evidence to answer that question.

 

[buffalo]

Insufficient evidence to answer that question.

I figured…

Catholic teaching is we all have a guardian angel.

StA exposed again.

 

[tonyrey]

Well, all the people I’ve ever met who make moral decisions have bodies. I suppose there could be an imaginary decision maker that does not have a body.

Do you conclude that people are the only rational beings created by God on the basis of your limited experience?

 

[tonyrey]

Insufficient evidence to answer that question.

Are your beliefs restricted to that for which there is scientific evidence?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Anastasia

**Well, all the people I’ve ever met who make moral decisions have bodies. I suppose there could be an imaginary decision maker that does not have a body. **

You mean like Satan? You are, after all, Catholic aren’t you? Don’t you believe the soul can exist without the body at death?

 

[StAnastasia]

Do you conclude that people are the only rational beings created by God on the basis of your limited experience?

Of course not!

 

[StAnastasia]

Are your beliefs restricted to that for which there is scientific evidence?

Of course not.

 

[StAnastasia]

Anastasia
You mean like Satan? You are, after all, Catholic aren’t you? Don’t you believe the soul can exist without the body at death?

Charlie, yes. I am Catholic. And no, the idea of a “soul” existing apart from a body is philosophically incoherent. I believe in the resurrection of the body and the life of the world to come, and the recreation by God of the whole person.

 

[StAnastasia]

I figured…
StA exposed again.

buffalo, from you I’m used to it! After all. I’ve been called the AntiChrist and denounced as a heretic to a bishop.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Anastasia

**Charlie, yes. I am Catholic. And no, the idea of a “soul” existing apart from a body is philosophically incoherent. I believe in the resurrection of the body and the life of the world to come, and the recreation by God of the whole person. **

So between death and the Last Judgment the soul does not exist?

 

[StAnastasia]

So between death and the Last Judgment the soul does not exist?

From a temporal point of view the move from death to “Last Judgment” it is instantaneous, since eternity lies outside of time (In Augustine’s theology). It’s not like there are thousands of years where souls are hanging around awaiting last judgment. If there were, it would be hundreds of millions of years, since the universe seems destined to continue expanding at least that long.

So I view eternity commencing with the death of the individual, not as beginning after some waiting period.

 

[You]

From a temporal point of view the move from death to “Last Judgment” it is instantaneous, since eternity lies outside of time (In Augustine’s theology). It’s not like there are thousands of years where souls are hanging around awaiting last judgment. If there were, it would be hundreds of millions of years, since the universe seems destined to continue expanding at least that long.

So I view eternity commencing with the death of the individual, not as beginning after some waiting period.

Moses and Elias; already gone through the Last Judgement?

 

[Elizabeth502]

From a temporal point of view the move from death to “Last Judgment” it is instantaneous, since eternity lies outside of time (In Augustine’s theology). It’s not like there are thousands of years where souls are hanging around awaiting last judgment. If there were, it would be hundreds of millions of years, since the universe seems destined to continue expanding at least that long.

So I view eternity commencing with the death of the individual, not as beginning after some waiting period.

So is it your position that the Roman Church’s theology of the Second Coming is in error?

(The Church does say that an individual’s judgment is “instantaneous,” so to speak, in that it occurs at the moment of – or extremely soon after – that individual’s death. But the Church, through Tradition, calls that The Particular Judgment. Conceivably that person’s “eternity” could start ‘instantaneously’ if that meant either Heaven or Hell for that person; however, it is generally assumed that most individuals will undergo the temporal purgation, called Purgatory, of course, which by definition is not eternal.)