Science & Religion

[Lui]

Local abuse of power was not sanctioned by the Magisterium.

No doubt one can look through history and find all kinds of individual abuse and failures.

The Koran sanctions the spread of Islam through power.

I’m sure the Germanic tribes all turned to Christianity by free will because they realized their own pagan religions were nonsense as soon as they picked up the Bible.

In 782 A.D. some 4,500 Saxon leaders are said to have been beheaded for practicing their indigenous Germanic paganism, having officially, albeit under duress, converted to Christianity and undergone baptism. The river Aller was said to have been flowing red with their blood.

What about Hinduism? Are one billion Hindus forced to believe by force too?

There are a lot of Muslims in Europe. I’m sure they could convert to Catholicism without fearing for their life. I live in a German Catholic city with a huge Catholic Cathedral. They are just building a huge mosque for the Muslims because many people from Turkey live in Germany. Oddly you never hear that any of the Turkish people want to convert to Catholicism.

 

[buffalo]

I’m sure the Germanic tribes all turned to Christianity by free will because they realized their own pagan religions were nonsense as soon as they picked up the Bible.

What about Hinduism? Are one billion Hindus forced to believe by force too?

There are a lot of Muslims in Europe. I’m sure they could convert to Catholicism without fearing for their life. I live in a German Catholic city with a huge Catholic Cathedral. They are just building a huge mosque for the Muslims because many people from Turkey live in Germany. Oddly you never hear that any of the Turkish people want to convert.

Nope - some are willing adherents. Many have not gone through the philosophical exploration to rule out the obvious ones that have limited truth.

 

[Lui]

Nope - some are willing adherents. Many have not gone through the philosophical exploration to rule out the obvious ones that have limited truth.

In other words, they do not want to convert because they were raised as Muslims or Hindus. Obviously you conveniently say that over a billion people are just too close-minded to see the truth. So we’re back to square one: they are Muslims and Hindus because they were raised that way and that is what they believe just like you were raised as a Christian and that’s what you believe.

 

[buffalo]

In other words, they do not want to convert because they were raised as Muslims or Hindus. Obviously you conveniently say that over a billion people are just too close-minded to see the truth. So we’re back to square one: they are Muslims and Hindus because they were raised that way and that is what they believe just like you were raised as a Christian and that’s what you believe.

Some are vincible ignorant others invincibly.

 

[Lui]

Some are vincible ignorant others invincibly.

As ignorant as Young Earth Creationists(including ID)?

 

[rossum]

The Romans executed people for not being Catholic?

Yes. Does the name Priscillian mean anything. Executed, together with his companions, for heresy in 385 CE.

rossum

 

[buffalo]

Yes. Does the name Priscillian mean anything. Executed, together with his companions, for heresy in 385 CE.

rossum

Do not try to make an argument that isolated failures of men make the religion. You know better.

 

[buffalo]

As ignorant as Young Earth Creationists(including ID)?

Oh boy, now you stepped into it.

Please share with me specifics of my ignorance.

 

[tonyrey]

The materialist doesn’t realize that there must be a ground.

 

[Lui]

Oh boy, now you stepped into it.

Please share with me specifics of my ignorance.

youtube.com/watch?v=YqYASxal-PI

 

[buffalo]

youtube.com/watch?v=YqYASxal-PI

Dawkins? Doesn’t apply to me.

Dawkins has his own religion.

Now perhaps we can get to specifics of your ID claim.

 

[buffalo]

“Liar, liar, pants on fire”? Ten Tough Questions for Professor Dawkins.

Professor Dawkins, I have ten charges to make against you, and they relate to apparent cases of lying, hypocrisy and moral inconsistency on your part. Brace yourself. I’ve listed the charges for the benefits of people reading this post.

**My Ten Charges against Professor Richard Dawkins**

more…

 

[Lui]

Dawkins? Doesn’t apply to me.

Dawkins has his own religion.

Now perhaps we can get to specifics of your ID claim.

I posted that link with an intention. You do exactly that when you try to convince people of your ID ideology: use biased sources. The difference is Dawkins has substance. Your ideology is built on sand and has zero substance.

You can use you laughing smilies all you want but I laugh non-stop at a grown man who believes in a 10000 year old earth and Noah’s ark(as written in the Bible) as historical fact

Oh, btw, I don’t want to get into specifics of an ideology that I consider as extremely ignorant and absurd so save your breath and discuss your theories with someone else. I only mentioned it because it sounded like you were calling people of other faiths ignorant.

 

[buffalo]

I posted that link with an intention. You do exactly that when you try to convince people of your ID ideology. The difference is Dawkins has substance. Your ideology is built on sand and has zero substance.

You can use you laughing smilies all you want but I laugh non-stop at a grown man who believes in a 10000 year old earth and Noah’s ark as historical fact

Here is what scientist James Shapiro says about Dawkins - “Dawkins lives in a world of fantasy.”

 

[buffalo]

I posted that link with an intention. You do exactly that when you try to convince people of your ID ideology: use biased sources. The difference is Dawkins has substance. Your ideology is built on sand and has zero substance.

You can use you laughing smilies all you want but I laugh non-stop at a grown man who believes in a 10000 year old earth and Noah’s ark(as written in the Bible) as historical fact

Oh, btw, I don’t want to get into specifics of an ideology that I consider as extremely ignorant and absurd so save your breath and discuss your theories with someone else. I only mentioned it because it sounded like you were calling people of other faiths ignorant.

I was stating that some people of other faiths are vincibly or invincibly ignorant, that is unaware of higher truths through their own fault or no fault of their own.

I didn’t think you were up to it. Be assured, you are comfortable in your own Darwinian ideology.

 

[Lui]

I was stating that some people of other faiths are vincibly or invincibly ignorant, that is unaware of higher truths through their own fault or no fault of their own.

And I was answering that ID is the unawareness of higher truths through ignorance or whatever leads a person to believe in this.

I didn’t think you were up to it. Be assured, you are comfortable in your own Darwinian ideology.

I don’t believe evolution is a fact. I know it is And I have the majority of serious scientists(not pseudo-science) to back this up.

 

[SGWessells]

“The sun is an invisible electromagnetic battery revolving in the universe’s center on a 24-year cycle. Our visible sun is only a reflection, as is the moon, with the stars reflecting off seven mercurial discs that float in the sphere’s center. Inside the earth there are three separate atmospheres: the first composed of oxygen and nitrogen and closest to the earth; the second, a hydrogen atmosphere above it; the third, an aboron (sic) atmosphere at the center. The earth’s shell is one hundred miles thick and has seventeen layers. The outer seven are metallic with a gold rind on the outermost layer, the middle five are mineral and the five inward are geologic strata. Inside the shell there is life, outside a void.”

Makes as much scientific sense as the first chapter of Genesis

 

[SGWessells]

Buffalo wrote: “Local abuse of power was not sanctioned by the Magisterium.”

Sometimes it was. Pope Nicholas V, in Dum Diversas, 1452, granted the kings of Spain and Portugal “bu these present documents, with our apostolic authority, full and free permission to invade, search out, capture, and subjugate the Saracens and pagans and any other unbelievers and enemies of Christ wherever they may be, as well as their kingdoms, duchies, counties, principalities, and other property…and to reduce their persons into perpetual slavery.” This decree was confirmed by Calixtus III in 1456. Sixtus IV renewed it in 1481. In 1493, Alexander VI extended it from Africa to America, and Leo X renewed it in 1514, after Columbus had enslaved many in the New World.

Later, the magisterium did condemn slavery, but not always without exception.

 

[buffalo]

Buffalo wrote: “Local abuse of power was not sanctioned by the Magisterium.”

Sometimes it was. Pope Nicholas V, in Dum Diversas, 1452, granted the kings of Spain and Portugal “bu these present documents, with our apostolic authority, full and free permission to invade, search out, capture, and subjugate the Saracens and pagans and any other unbelievers and enemies of Christ wherever they may be, as well as their kingdoms, duchies, counties, principalities, and other property…and to reduce their persons into perpetual slavery.” This decree was confirmed by Calixtus III in 1456. Sixtus IV renewed it in 1481. In 1493, Alexander VI extended it from Africa to America, and Leo X renewed it in 1514, after Columbus had enslaved many in the New World.

Later, the magisterium did condemn slavery, but not always without exception.

Let My People Go: The Catholic Church and Slavery

 

[Lui]

Buffalo wrote: “Local abuse of power was not sanctioned by the Magisterium.”

Sometimes it was. .

I’m pretty sure the Church made good profit from the conquer of the Incas:

Pizarro met with priest Hernando de Luque and in 1522 with a soldier called Diego de Almagro (who as a baby was found abandoned on the stairs of a church). That same year, the three had decided to create a partnership for exploring the southern parts of the Americas.

Interesting that a priest was one of the three leaders.

Atahualpa was taken hostage by Pizarro and the Inca, fearing death, has offered to ask for treasures from his followers in order for him to be released. In the cell, Pizarro promised to let him go, if the treasures will pile as high as the conquistador could point with his hand. So the Incas brought so much silver and gold that they almost filled the room. The Spaniards were shocked.

13.420 pounds of silver and 26.000 pounds of gold were brought, but the Inca leader was still murdered in a sadistic way: Atahualpa asked not to be burned, because in Inca mythology, if someone burns, his/her soul cannot reach heaven, Pizarro promised him that he won’t be burned, then Atahualpa was suffocated, after that, his body was burned - with despise towards him and his beliefs).

With what arrogance they just ignored the beliefs of the Incas. They lacked any moral values.

Christian fanaticism was ruthless with the Incas. The Christians had despise to Inca values and applied brute force to demolish everything that was non-Christian. We ache today when seeing the remains of the Inca cities which had once thrived.

Priest Bartolomeo de Las Cassas writes about the colonization of the Inca Empire as the “inferno of Peru”.

The most well-preserved Inca city is Machu Picchu, which lay hidden from the eyes of the conquistadores. We can see the evolved skills of the Incas and we can imagine how other cities could have looked like…

Unfortunately, most of the Inca cities were destroyed.

What the Inca civilization had created in decades, centuries was demolished in just a few years!

Source: rediscovermachupicchu.com/spanish-conquest-colonization.htm