Science & Religion

[You]

…

The geologists agree that the Earth was not entirely covered with water during the lifetime of any possible human ‘Noah’.

rossum

Did I say it was?

 

[You]

The water would have to have stood 29,053 feet deep, and this is not possible. There is not enough water on earth for it, and in any case, where did it drain after the flood.

And yet all of the earth was covered in water, fact.

 

[StAnastasia]

And yet all of the earth was covered in water, fact.

False.

 

[You]

False.

True.

 

[grannymh]

No - Granny needs to be updated. “Evolution by natural selection” is still a central component of the new evolutionary synthesis, which has been strengthened year by year since it’s proposal in 1859.

Emphasis mine

Yes, granny and others who believe in Catholic doctrine do need to be constantly updated regarding various scientific theories. My guess is that those of us who remember “newspeak” from the book Nineteen Eighty-Four will recognize its existence in some of the presentations of the theological movement to change the Catholic Church.
Newspeak refers to “ambiguous and contradictory language used for propagandistic purposes.” Second College Edition, the American Heritage Dictionary, published in the 1980’s.

Gentle Readers,

In the old days, (please see post 1652), Catholics looked at evolution theories as pertaining to animals, plants, bacteria, etc. and perhaps having an influence on the development of the modern human anatomy. This is proper since human nature was created by God to unite b*oth *the material *and *the spiritual worlds in one single nature.

In the 21st century, granny as well as others absolutely need to be updated constantly because there is a modernist theology developing ways to re-explain the Catholic doctrine of Original Sin. This re-explanation begins with the speculation that over time, various children or maybe grandchildren of 10,000 breeding pairs did something bad which kick started bad things happening to good people.

The Catholic Church has a more precise explanation which includes the promise of a Redeemer Who died for the united human race.

 

[Lui]

What makes you say that?

So Noah existed BEFORE humans showed up? Ok, maybe he was an alien. Maybe aliens came to earth and genetically changed the DNA of the pre-historic man, beamed up all species into a huge spaceship and covered the earth with water. Then they implanted the God gene so that the new species they created have this deep belief in God who is actually some leader in their alien society. The Bible is written by them and has all these hidden hints we haven’t discovered yet. They are controlling humans from a different dimension. Is that enough imagination how it could have happened

I cannot force you to use your imagination. But begin with the central point Noah and the geologists agree on; the earth was covered with water.

Well, geologists do not agree on this and Noah probably never existed and if he did how do you know he agreed? Maybe there was a local flood and he built a boat to save his family, three goats. two chickens and his dog. It later developed into a more juicy story that somehow made it into the Bible.
Actually I believe that the people who wrote that story just borrowed it from mystical stories of the past.

 

[StAnastasia]

The Catholic Church has a more precise explanation which includes the promise of a Redeemer Who died for the united human race.

That’s irrelevant for biology, as even Catholic biologists like Ken Miller recognize.

 

[tonyrey]

Because once you cease to assert that God exists, and say that it is a matter of probability, you have opened the door to people concluding that it is more probable that God does not exist, given the lack of empirical evidence for God.

It is not necessary to cease to assert that God exists in order to discuss the empirical probability that God exists. Empirical evidence is neither the sole nor the most important form of evidence - unless science is regarded as the sine qua non of knowledge…

Was belief in God irrational before science existed?

 

[grannymh]

That’s irrelevant for biology, as even Catholic biologists like Ken Miller recognize.

The theological movement to change the Catholic Church is open to everyone.

For further information, please refer to posts 1652, 1672 and 1702 in this thread.

 

[tonyrey]

It is certainly important to specify whether natural selection excludes rational direction

The inadequacy of the "new evolutionary synthesis" rejected by many biologists is a sufficient reason for scepticism in addition to the fact that it is both philosophically and theologically incoherent. The absurdity of materialism was evident long before the demise of logical positivism.

From Philips Johnson to Michael Behe to Bill Dembski, every attempt to show that biology offers an inadequate explanation has been shown to be a pathetic failure.

Then please explain precisely how rational, purposeful, autonomous beings have been produced by non-rational, purposeless particles.

 

[tonyrey]

That’s irrelevant for biology, as even Catholic biologists like Ken Miller recognize.

Is biology the sole explanation of the human species?

 

[tonyrey]

First of all I don’t do “assignments” given to me by random people from the internet…

You are forgetting you are also a random person from the internet but on this forum there are certain rules that should be observed…

 

[Lui]

You are forgetting you are also a random person from the internet but on this forum there are certain rules that should be observed…

So there is a rule that if a person gives me an assignment that I HAVE to do it?

 

[You]

So there is a rule that if a person gives me an assignment that I HAVE to do it?

Originally Posted by Lui
I’ve done that many times…

Its not like I asked for anything you were not used to doing, as you said.
The ‘assignment’ was to use your imagination, something all good scientists do.

 

[You]

So Noah existed BEFORE humans showed up? Ok, maybe he was an alien. Maybe aliens came to earth and genetically changed the DNA of the pre-historic man, beamed up all species into a huge spaceship and covered the earth with water. Then they implanted the God gene so that the new species they created have this deep belief in God who is actually some leader in their alien society. The Bible is written by them and has all these hidden hints we haven’t discovered yet. They are controlling humans from a different dimension. Is that enough imagination how it could have happened

Well, geologists do not agree on this and Noah probably never existed and if he did how do you know he agreed? Maybe there was a local flood and he built a boat to save his family, three goats. two chickens and his dog. It later developed into a more juicy story that somehow made it into the Bible.
Actually I believe that the people who wrote that story just borrowed it from mystical stories of the past.

Well you could try to believe this, but I wouldn’t bother if I were you.

 

[Lui]

Its not like I asked for anything you were not used to doing, as you said.
The ‘assignment’ was to use your imagination, something all good scientists do.

It’s just a matter of how a person chooses his words, but hey, no need to beat a dead horse any longer.

Well you could try to believe this, but I wouldn’t bother if I were you.

No, I just used my imagination how it could have happened which in no more far-fetched than the story of Noah or other stories of the Bible. Obviously I won’t bother to believe this story just like I won’t bother to believe the stories made up by the numerous unknown people who wrote the Bible.

Maybe you could explain WHEN there was a global flood(there is no geological evidence that this ever was the case), how the story of Noah could have happened BEFORE humans existed and how you imagine that the story of Noah could have happened in general.

 

[tonyrey]

So there is a rule that if a person gives me an assignment that I HAVE to do it?

The first forum conduct rule is that messages posted to this board must be polite…

 

[You]

…

Maybe you could explain WHEN there was a global flood(there is no geological evidence that this ever was the case), how the story of Noah could have happened BEFORE humans existed and how you imagine that the story of Noah could have happened in general.

Maybe you could explain WHEN there was a global flood(there is no geological evidence that this ever was the case)

I did that already, but I will do so again if you wish.
Every bit of the earth was covered by water at some stage or another, according to geology. Just like Noah’s Flood which covered every bit of the earth over a period of 40 days. [note: number 40 is symbolic in ancient times, as is 6, 7, 1000, etc., etc.]

how the story of Noah could have happened BEFORE humans existed

Well, the story could have said… well, what could the story have said, the vocabulary of geological science did not exist then. The story had to be told, well, with a story.

and how you imagine that the story of Noah could have happened in general.

How do you imagine that people 3000 years before modern geology already knew that every bit of the earth was covered by water at some stage or another?
I imagine the story of Noah was the story of water covering every bit of the earth at some stage or another.

 

[Lui]

The first forum conduct rule is that messages posted to this board must be polite…

My post wasn’t impolite. I just expressed my opinion.

 

[Lui]

I did that already, but I will do so again if you wish.
Every bit of the earth was covered by water at some stage or another, according to geology. Just like Noah’s Flood which covered every bit of the earth over a period of 40 days. [note: number 40 is symbolic in ancient times, as is 6, 7, 1000, etc., etc.]

Well, the story could have said… well, what could the story have said, the vocabulary of geological science did not exist then. The story had to be told, well, with a story.

How do you imagine that people 3000 years before modern geology already knew that every bit of the earth was covered by water at some stage or another?
I imagine the story of Noah was the story of water covering every bit of the earth at some stage or another.

So you’re saying that the story of Noah was just a written story with characters and all just to explain that all parts of the earth were once covered with water at one time or another and by telling this story the Bible proves it had knowledge which man didn’t have until 3000 years later so it must be a divine knowledge?