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tonyrey
Guest
You’re probably not aware of the context. My comment referred to a previous post by the same individual in which he stated that all human behaviour will ultimately be explained scientifically.
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ThinkingSapien
Guest
My apologies if I responded inappropriately. Seems I didn’t properly take the previous message into consideration.You’re probably not aware of the context. My comment referred to a previous post by the same individual in which he stated that all human behaviour will ultimately be explained scientifically.
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SanAgustin
Guest
Hi James, I’m not sure I get your meaning here. Are you saying that evolution is incompatible with believing that God created the universe?
Also, I’m not sure I agree that studying the origin of the species or the scientific facts behind the creation of the universe means that people are trying to disprove the existence of God.
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tonyrey
Guest
No need to apologise! You can’t be expected to know the context of every post! It was on a different thread.
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buffalo
Guest
The idea that we all rely on the fruits of scientists is so bogus. How about inventions stumbled upon? How about non-scientist inventions? How about plain old trial and error?
Notice: since you are living in a technological age you must pay homage to the gods of technology! :nope:
Notice: since you are living in a technological age you must pay homage to the gods of technology! :nope:
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buffalo
Guest
Publish-or-perish: Peer review and the corruption of science
Pressure on scientists to publish has led to a situation where any paper, however bad, can now be printed in a journal that claims to be peer-reviewed
Pressure on scientists to publish has led to a situation where any paper, however bad, can now be printed in a journal that claims to be peer-reviewed
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SanAgustin
Guest
But we do rely on the fruits of science! You’re doing it right now, I’m assuming your computer uses electricity no?
It seems you’re making a distinction between pure scientific research vs practical engineering? I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say here.
What does this mean?Notice: since you are living in a technological age you must pay homage to the gods of technology! :nope:
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buffalo
Guest
Perfect - practical engineering is the point I was trying to make. Great inventions we use today were made before modern science was even around.
This was an answer to another poster who was making the point one has to believe in science because we use technology daily. I pointed out this was a bogus argument.
We should believe in properly reasoned science.
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SanAgustin
Guest
I see, however engineering is based on scientific and mathematical principles, so it’s kind of difficult to separate the two.
Look at the device you are using right now, you’re in front of a computing device that would have been impossible without the scientific discovery and research into electricity. Scientist and engineers developed the integrated circuit, and mathematicians and computer scientists developed the principles used today to program these computers (disclaimer I’m a computer scientist).
But the core principles do come from science, for the various components and the theories that govern what is computationally possible versus what is not (NP completeness).
It sounds like you’re trying to diminish the value of science by pitting science against engineering, but you really can’t separate the two like you’re describing.
Look at the device you are using right now, you’re in front of a computing device that would have been impossible without the scientific discovery and research into electricity. Scientist and engineers developed the integrated circuit, and mathematicians and computer scientists developed the principles used today to program these computers (disclaimer I’m a computer scientist).
But the core principles do come from science, for the various components and the theories that govern what is computationally possible versus what is not (NP completeness).
It sounds like you’re trying to diminish the value of science by pitting science against engineering, but you really can’t separate the two like you’re describing.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Still waiting for citations. Will I ever get them?
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inocente
Guest
Seems to me wisdom is hindsight through rose tinted glasses. If he had kept quiet and the Nazis had developed the Bomb, the US would have been defenseless and Einstein would be criticized for not speaking out. He can’t win.
And was it scientists who allocated budget and recruited a team in the name of patriotism and who used the Bomb, or was it American politicians?
*For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? - 1 Cor 1 NIV*
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inocente
Guest
You’re probably not aware of the context. My comment referred to a previous post by the same individual in which he stated that all human behaviour will ultimately be explained scientifically.
tony, that’s not exactly good manners. The “previous post” was on another thread in a different context, it did not imply what you said, and the stickies apply:
Don’t jump threads. If you get involved in an argument in one thread, it’s considered poor manners to restart the previous argument in the middle of an unrelated thread. Also, if the moderator closes a thread, consider the subject closed and do not begin it anew in another thread.
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
inocente
**Seems to me wisdom is hindsight through rose tinted glasses.
**
Wisdom is never hindsight. It is always foresight. Einstein and the Nazi scientists couldn’t foresee the proliferation of nuclear weapons throughout the world?
**And was it scientists who allocated budget and recruited a team in the name of patriotism and who used the Bomb, or was it American politicians? **
Here are the four letters from Einstein to Roosevelt, showing his instigation of the nuclear weapons program, and indicating that scientists in Germany may also be working on the same direction with uranium.
hypertextbook.com/eworld/einstein.shtml#first
Einstein gave his view of the development of the first nuclear weapon in a December 10, 1945 speech titled: “The war is won, but peace is not”.
“We helped in creating this new weapon in order to prevent the enemies of mankind from achieving it ahead of us, which, given the mentality of the Nazis, would have meant inconceivable destruction and the enslavement of the rest of the world. We delivered this weapon into the hands of the American and the British people as trustees of the whole of mankind, as fighters for peace and liberty. But so far we fail to see any guarantee of peace, we do not see any guarantee of the freedoms that were promised to the nations in the Atlantic Charter. The war is won, but the peace is not … "
And here we are 67 years later, still fearing the shower of nuclear missiles thanks to all that grand scientific knowledge and lack of wisdom both from scientists and politicians.
**Seems to me wisdom is hindsight through rose tinted glasses.
**
Wisdom is never hindsight. It is always foresight. Einstein and the Nazi scientists couldn’t foresee the proliferation of nuclear weapons throughout the world?
**And was it scientists who allocated budget and recruited a team in the name of patriotism and who used the Bomb, or was it American politicians? **
Here are the four letters from Einstein to Roosevelt, showing his instigation of the nuclear weapons program, and indicating that scientists in Germany may also be working on the same direction with uranium.
hypertextbook.com/eworld/einstein.shtml#first
Einstein gave his view of the development of the first nuclear weapon in a December 10, 1945 speech titled: “The war is won, but peace is not”.
“We helped in creating this new weapon in order to prevent the enemies of mankind from achieving it ahead of us, which, given the mentality of the Nazis, would have meant inconceivable destruction and the enslavement of the rest of the world. We delivered this weapon into the hands of the American and the British people as trustees of the whole of mankind, as fighters for peace and liberty. But so far we fail to see any guarantee of peace, we do not see any guarantee of the freedoms that were promised to the nations in the Atlantic Charter. The war is won, but the peace is not … "
And here we are 67 years later, still fearing the shower of nuclear missiles thanks to all that grand scientific knowledge and lack of wisdom both from scientists and politicians.
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inocente
Guest
Over on my side of the pond most of us stopped worrying when the USSR collapsed. The USA spends more on its arsenal each year than Europe, Russia and China combined, and to do so appears to be happily mortgaging itself to the rest of the world. This policy is underwritten by the people, since the US is a democracy, which may indicate that lack of wisdom isn’t something to be laid at the door of any one group.
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John_Russell_Jr
Guest
… my dearest friend ,
… well said
, loved it , can i just add that religion , philosopy , theology , faith and all the studies of god are sciences and not just what we normally call science , there are many types of sciences , and science is a faith as man must believe all on the basis of faith bar one thing , that he exists and he cannot prove who or what he is but only he exists and he knows this because he has experiences and for this to be he must exist , all sciences are meant to be perfectly complimentary and working in perfect harmony in the pursuit of all truth as they solve all problems , but scientists all too oft ridicule religion and faith , insanity on steroids this , how many mistakes have scientists and science made ??? , none can count them and to this day they have not solved a single problem perfectly , completely and permanently , they just keep making more , they are so stupid they think they can kill the unborn and embryos and knock off old people let alone much else because they are just a collection of atoms and molecules etc , mass or matter and no more important than a rock , they don’t appreciate the miracle of life or it’s preciousness , because they don’t understand love at all and so much more , they see man as a burden hence population control and men are just excess mass wasting precious resources others need , they need theology and philosophy as without them they just become more insane , and their so insane their completely out of control , and like you so rightly say – man knows so little , but the real situation is that man already has all the knowledge he needs to solve all the problems he possibly can , he does not understand the knowledge and that’s where it falls down , and you must appreciate what you understand or you don’t know if the knowledge is important or not , many so caled geniuses in this world like scientists , and i’m not condemning godly scientists by the way , have tons of knowledge but without the understanding and appreciation what use is it really ??? , not much at all , even a computer or parrot can have tons of knowledge but witghout the ability to understand and appreciate it it is useless , and fallen minds have lost the preternatural gifts – that’s where it falls down , i bless and praise those good scientists truly working to help man and our world , but the ungodly ones need humility to know they really know nothing in the end , and to stop the persecutions of religions and faiths , especially catholicism which as i see it has the potential to be the only church with absolutely no conflict between faith and reason , they need to respect others if they want respect , and 1 + 1 does not have to = 2 , god can do anything , and if i may , evolution is false and no evidence of it exists at all , but i love what you’ve said here dear friend , well done , keep it up
… may god bless and love you ,
… john …
… well said
, loved it , can i just add that religion , philosopy , theology , faith and all the studies of god are sciences and not just what we normally call science , there are many types of sciences , and science is a faith as man must believe all on the basis of faith bar one thing , that he exists and he cannot prove who or what he is but only he exists and he knows this because he has experiences and for this to be he must exist , all sciences are meant to be perfectly complimentary and working in perfect harmony in the pursuit of all truth as they solve all problems , but scientists all too oft ridicule religion and faith , insanity on steroids this , how many mistakes have scientists and science made ??? , none can count them and to this day they have not solved a single problem perfectly , completely and permanently , they just keep making more , they are so stupid they think they can kill the unborn and embryos and knock off old people let alone much else because they are just a collection of atoms and molecules etc , mass or matter and no more important than a rock , they don’t appreciate the miracle of life or it’s preciousness , because they don’t understand love at all and so much more , they see man as a burden hence population control and men are just excess mass wasting precious resources others need , they need theology and philosophy as without them they just become more insane , and their so insane their completely out of control , and like you so rightly say – man knows so little , but the real situation is that man already has all the knowledge he needs to solve all the problems he possibly can , he does not understand the knowledge and that’s where it falls down , and you must appreciate what you understand or you don’t know if the knowledge is important or not , many so caled geniuses in this world like scientists , and i’m not condemning godly scientists by the way , have tons of knowledge but without the understanding and appreciation what use is it really ??? , not much at all , even a computer or parrot can have tons of knowledge but witghout the ability to understand and appreciate it it is useless , and fallen minds have lost the preternatural gifts – that’s where it falls down , i bless and praise those good scientists truly working to help man and our world , but the ungodly ones need humility to know they really know nothing in the end , and to stop the persecutions of religions and faiths , especially catholicism which as i see it has the potential to be the only church with absolutely no conflict between faith and reason , they need to respect others if they want respect , and 1 + 1 does not have to = 2 , god can do anything , and if i may , evolution is false and no evidence of it exists at all , but i love what you’ve said here dear friend , well done , keep it up … may god bless and love you
,… john …
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
inocente
Over on my side of the pond most of us stopped worrying when the USSR collapsed. The USA spends more on its arsenal each year than Europe, Russia and China combined, and to do so appears to be happily mortgaging itself to the rest of the world. This policy is underwritten by the people, since the US is a democracy, which may indicate that lack of wisdom isn’t something to be laid at the door of any one group.
There could be no bombs without scientists offering to invent them. That’s the starting point.
Over on my side of the pond most of us stopped worrying when the USSR collapsed. The USA spends more on its arsenal each year than Europe, Russia and China combined, and to do so appears to be happily mortgaging itself to the rest of the world. This policy is underwritten by the people, since the US is a democracy, which may indicate that lack of wisdom isn’t something to be laid at the door of any one group.
There could be no bombs without scientists offering to invent them. That’s the starting point.
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inocente
Guest
Yes, I can see how flat screen TVs, the Internet and artificial hearts were just “stumbled on”.The idea that we all rely on the fruits of scientists is so bogus. How about inventions stumbled upon? How about non-scientist inventions? How about plain old trial and error?
Notice: since you are living in a technological age you must pay homage to the gods of technology! :nope:
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inocente
Guest
Do you ever read what you write? Your computer was made before science was even around?
As long as you get to chair the censorship committee.
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inocente
Guest
Excuse me thinking knowledge might be preferable to ignorance, and that the “guns don’t kill people, only scientists kill people” slogan might just indicate double standards.There could be no bombs without scientists offering to invent them. That’s the starting point.
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