Science & Religion

[rinnie]

Genesis 2:18 (“The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.””) says that the pre-Eve state of Adam was “not good”.

I have no problem if you want to define “perfection” to include things that are “not good”. It would just be a very interesting sort of definition.

Also where did I say Not good definies perfection. Where did God ever say the world was not good that he created. You seem to ignore that point. You said the Pre state of Adam was NOT GOOD. How can you determine the state of being Adam was in?

Where was Adams state of mind ever determined. It was God who said it is not good for Man to be alone so he created women. Where was Adam as I asked previously ever in a state of unhappiness? Seems you are adding to scripture now.

How could Adam be in Paradise a world of perfect happiness but then as you state be in a pre eve state of not good? Paradise is either a positive state or negative whats it going to be then?

 

[Ahimsa]

You said the Pre state of Adam was NOT GOOD. How can you determine the state of being Adam was in?

If you want to say that Adam’s being alone was actually “good”, when the Bible says it was “not good”, then that would be fine. I’m just curious as to why you disagree with a literal reading of Genesis 2:18.

 

[tonyrey]

Life on earth evolved when the common ancestor of all living beings began to split and replicate itself, genetic mutation changed physical characteristics, and natural selection determined which forms survived because they were better equipped to do so. That is what the genetic evidence says. And the fossil record. And molecular biology. And embryology. And geographical distribution of lifeforms. And so on. Since the Bible knows nothing about all this, it is irrelevant to demonstrable reality. So join us out here in the real world. It isn’t 100 % perfect, but it’s all we’ve got.

You have not explained why the universe and its laws are propitious for life, how life originated, why it became more complex and how rational, purposeless beings with self-control and insight into reality have been produced by irrational, purposeless processes…

Moreover you know the real world exists only because you infer its existence from our sole certainty: the fact that we are thinking. Are your thoughts less real than material objects?

 

[rinnie]

If you want to say that Adam’s being alone was actually “good”, when the Bible says it was “not good”, then that would be fine. I’m just curious as to why you disagree with a literal reading of Genesis 2:18.

You need to do some re-thinking here.

GOD said that Adams being alone was not good so he created EVE. Where do you feel that God came up short here.

God gives us what we need, WHEN we need it, IF we need it. God knows WHAT we need if we need it BEFORE we even know we need it.

You continue to say that Adam not having Eve at the exact time that God created her was not good. SHOW me that.

God said it was not GOOD for Adam to be alone, so at that moment God said that, he gave him a women. You refuse to show me where Adam was in a state of uncontentment or unhappiness.

Do you not see that Paradise is Completely good, and all that you need will be provided for you before you even know you need it. Thats bliss, happiness, perfection.

Now show me where the world was not GOOD that God created. Thats the question. You continue to be saying that God creating Adam before Eve was not Good. That is not what scripture says. God says that after he created Adam he created Eve because he did not feel it was good for ADAM to be alone, so he made sure that he was not alone. So guess what ADAM never experienced being alone!

Show me where God said creating Adam before EVE was not good. Show me where Adam showed any signs of not being in perfect happiness in paradise. That is what you refuse to see that God knows what we need BEFORE we even need it.

That is PERFECTION on GODS PART once AGAIN!! God is perfect and knows what WE need and provided it for Adam in Paradise BEFORE Adam even knew he needed it.

SHow me where GOD failed. You cannot do so!! If you can. show me. You are showing where GOd showed us he did not want Man to be alone so he created women. Not that God creating Man without Women was a mistake. God does things in HIS time, and he did.

If God felt that Man and Women should have been created together he would have done so. But he wanted us to see that it is not GOOD to be alone. NOT that the world he created was not good.

I just don’t understand you thinking here. It makes no sense to me.

God is perfect, and he does thing in Perfect order. You do not have his wisdom so you can never understand God. But to say he is not perfect and did not do things perfect is wrong. He created Paradise. A world free from sin.

 

[rinnie]

If you want to say that Adam’s being alone was actually “good”, when the Bible says it was “not good”, then that would be fine. I’m just curious as to why you disagree with a literal reading of Genesis 2:18.

Also show me where Adam was actually ALONE? If you want to actually take it that literal. He was never alone he had God

 

[Ahimsa]

You refuse to show me where Adam was in a state of uncontentment or unhappiness.

I never claimed Adam’s unhappiness. Genesis 2:18 says nothing about Adam’s state of mind, only that God Himself said that Adam’s aloneness was “not good”.

Also show me where Adam was actually ALONE? If you want to actually take it that literal. He was never alone he had God

Genesis 2:18 says “And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.” So, yes, God was there, but God was not a “help meet” for Adam. Adam’s lack of a “help meet” was the reason for God saying that Adam’s aloneness was not good. If Adam were to have a “help meet”, then Adam would no longer be in a state of “not goodness”.

 

[francessmith]

Thank you. Your are absolutely right on with your reply to all this speculation. Let’s put an end to all these arguments. Bottom line God is the creator and it does not matter how it all came about.

 

[buffalo]

Life on earth evolved when the common ancestor of all living beings began to split and replicate itself, genetic mutation changed physical characteristics, and natural selection determined which forms survived because they were better equipped to do so. That is what the genetic evidence says. And the fossil record. And molecular biology. And embryology. And geographical distribution of lifeforms. .

That paradigm is falling as we speak.

The fossil record shows abrupt appearance and then stasis. It shows adaptability within.

We now know natural selection is a conservative process not a creative one.

Molecular biology shows design.

Genetics show that all living things possess around 500 or so “immortal” genes.

 

[StAnastasia]

Thank you. Your are absolutely right on with your reply to all this speculation. Let’s put an end to all these arguments. Bottom line God is the creator and it does not matter how it all came about.

It matters to scientists and historians and theologians,

 

[StAnastasia]

Thank you. Your are absolutely right on with your reply to all this speculation. Let’s put an end to all these arguments. Bottom line God is the creator and it does not matter how it all came about.

“In principle, religion could tell us all sorts of true things about the world, i.e., it could do so if one of these religions did actually have a holy text dictated by an angel, or whatever. Angels should know stuff about the age of the earth, the orbits of the planets, the evolutionary origin of Homo sapiens, etc. They should have got these right before science found out about them.”

 

[StrawberryJam]

Now its your turn to show me, how a world without sin, **death **suffering and God in it is not perfect. Please show me what is missing? When you have God the Father to ask for anything and him give you what you need? Its your turn to show me where the world God created was IN-Perfect.

There was no death before Adam and Eve?

None? Not even human death?

 

[StrawberryJam]

“In principle, religion could tell us all sorts of true things about the world, i.e., it could do so if one of these religions did actually have a holy text dictated by an angel, or whatever. Angels should know stuff about the age of the earth, the orbits of the planets, the evolutionary origin of Homo sapiens, etc. They should have got these right before science found out about them.”

The men at the time of the holy texts did attempt to woo the reader here and there with things observable at that time. Nothing that was not. Nor did it give us any useful knowledge about the real world we live in. No one is faulting our ancient ancestors for retelling stories and using what they felt was useful to keep their tribe intact.

 

[StAnastasia]

There was no death before Adam and Eve? None? Not even human death?

I’m sorry to be the bearer of news, but there were three and a half billion years of death before Adam and Eve appeared on the planet!

 

[StAnastasia]

The men at the time of the holy texts did attempt to woo the reader here and there with things observable at that time. Nothing that was not. Nor did it give us any useful knowledge about the real world we live in. No one is faulting our ancient ancestors for retelling stories and using what they felt was useful to keep their tribe intact.

Yes, I agree with you. I don’t fault the ancient nomadic Hebrews or the Lakota or the Australian first people or the Congolese. Each told stories that resonated with their cultural experience.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I’m sorry to be the bearer of news, but there were three and a half billion years of death before Adam and Eve appeared on the planet!

You don’t have to be sorry for telling me what I know to be fact. The unfortunate thing is, and what I encounter here is that somehow, someway these things are not a part of “belief” or required to be.

 

[StAnastasia]

You don’t have to be sorry for telling me what I know to be fact. The unfortunate thing is, and what I encounter here is that somehow, someway these things are not a part of “belief” or required to be.

Strawberry, can you explain why so many otherwise college-educated people on CAF believe either (1) the the world is only a few thousand years old, or (2) that Adam and Eve were popped into a preexisting world?

 

[StrawberryJam]

Strawberry, can you explain why so many otherwise college-educated people on CAF believe either (1) the the world is only a few thousand years old, or (2) that Adam and Eve were popped into a preexisting world?

You did it. You pressed.

Not having a crystal ball or anything other than my very useless opnion on the topic, I can say that many college educated people have never learned to love science. Many women feel outcast from the hard sciences early in life.

I could go into more detail, detail that would require us to ask how we have let this happen.
Why the US is such a dissapointment in science yet a huge believer in creationism.

It’s about many things. Your parents, how they taught you to see the world around you.
Your enviornment. Your experiences.

Your brain.

 

[tonyrey]

It matters to scientists and historians and theologians,

In the context of eternity it matters far less than the reason** why** we came about!

 

[rinnie]

There was no death before Adam and Eve?

None? Not even human death?

I was speaking of human death and the answer is no. Dead was a result of sin, Before sin entered the world there was no death. If you read the bible God told Eve if she ate the fruit she would die. She died a spiritual death at first which is sin, and a physical death later.

That is why the next world will be perfect the way the beginning was to be. No death, no sadness, only happiness.

That is why it was Christ who took away the death that Adam and Eve caused us. That is why in the next world we will live with God and talk with him and have a different kind of relationship with him then we have here.

That is why Christ is the New Adam and the Blessed Mother is the NEw Eve. Because they stayed true to the Father and obeyed and did not sin.

Because if you read Gen. 2:5 there were no humans.

 

[rinnie]

I’m sorry to be the bearer of news, but there were three and a half billion years of death before Adam and Eve appeared on the planet!

Okay then what died. Because God created the living creatures, then the fish etc. According to the word of God The Lord sent no rain upon the earth and there was NO MAN to till the soil. So who died because there were no humans created yet?