Science & Religion

[grannymh]

Yeah, but to believe that 7 billion humans are the descendants of one guy created out of clay and a women out of his rib who sinned(pursuaded by a talking reptile) for eating a forbidden fruit based on a 3000 year old book is SOOOOO believable

I’ll laugh with you since 94.6% of what you are talking about is not Catholicism.

 

[Lui]

I’ll laugh with you since 94.6% of what you are talking about is not Catholicism.

So what exactly do Catholics believe when it comes to Adam and Eve? I can’t tell because the opinions are conflicting. ALL priests I personally talked to told me Adam and Eve are symbolic characters. Buffalo believes Adam actually celebrated his 930th birthday. Then I read that Catholics MUST believe in Adam and Eve as historical people while science says it is genetically impossible that all people descended from two people.
I personally think it is impossible on all accounts. I don’t know what’s harder for me to believe: that Adam and Eve are historical people and our first parents OR that educated adults actually believe they are historical people all humans descended from. I’ll give it a tie.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Lui

At least science HAS evidence.

Evidence of what?

Genesis, 1000 B.C. : “Let there be light.”

Carl Sagan in Cosmos, 1980 A.D.

“Ten or twenty billion years ago, something happened – the Big Bang, the event that began our universe…. In that titanic cosmic explosion, the universe began an expansion which has never ceased…. As space stretched, the matter and energy in the universe expanded with it and rapidly cooled. The radiation of the cosmic fireball, which, then as now, filled the universe, moved through the spectrum – from gamma rays to X-rays to ultraviolet light; through the rainbow colors of the visible spectrum; into the infrared and radio regions. The remnants of that fireball, the cosmic background radiation, emanating from all parts of the sky can be detected by radio telescopes today. In the early universe, space was brilliantly illuminated.”

Who got that evidence first?

 

[SGWessells]

Catholicism would have never survived if fraudulent. The rapid rise of Christianity in the early days is testament to the force of the truth. The Jews wiped references to Jesus away they were so upset.

Other religions have risen and prospered equally rapidly: Mormonism, for example, or Scientology, or the Cargo Cult. Rapid dissemination is not necessarily evidence of truth, only of popularity.

 

[grannymh]

So what exactly do Catholics believe when it comes to Adam and Eve? I can’t tell because the opinions are conflicting. ALL priests I personally talked to told me Adam and Eve are symbolic characters. Buffalo believes Adam actually celebrated his 930th birthday. Then I read that Catholics MUST believe in Adam and Eve as historical people while science says it is genetically impossible that all people descended from two people.
I personally think it is impossible on all accounts. I don’t know what’s harder for me to believe: that Adam and Eve are historical people and our first parents OR that educated adults actually believe they are historical people all humans descended from. I’ll give it a tie.

The stated Catholic doctrine regarding our own human nature is that Adam and Eve are the two, sole founders of the human species.

Science uses assumptions and estimates to figure out what has been going on in the world millions of years going backwards. These assumptions and estimates can be mostly valid in regard to limited conclusions. However, collections of limited assumptions and estimates are not enough to make the jump from particular genes out of 20,000 to 25,000 genes in the human genome to an universal conclusion that excludes the possibility of two sole founders of the human species.

Usually science does not care about the possibility of a nature that is both material and spiritual since spiritual is outside the domain of science. That is acceptable. But the acceptableness of limited research due to the scientific definition, is not enough to rule out every possibility of every day, every place, anytime, going millions of years backwards.

The possibility of Adam exists. One is free to accept it or not accept it.

 

[tonyrey]

I don’t know what’s harder for me to believe: that Adam and Eve are historical people and our first parents OR that educated adults actually believe they are historical people all humans descended from. I’ll give it a tie.

It’s far harder to believe human beings are produced by purposeless events!

 

[tonyrey]

Rapid dissemination is not necessarily evidence of truth, only of popularity.

The first Christians were extremely unpopular among the Jews, Romans and Greeks - hence their persecution…

 

[tonyrey]

To believe 7 billion humans are the fortunate descendants of inanimate dust is the most convincing explanation that has ever been cooked up by half-baked noodles! At least science HAS evidence. The belief of Adam and Eve is based on nothing but a 3000 year old book. Why did John Paul II believe in evolution if it is all half-baked nonsense?

John Paul II did not believe in evolution by Chance....

 

[grannymh]

But the key questions are, “Where did ‘nature’ or ‘the fundamental laws’ come from?” and, “Why do they exist at all?” The answers to those questions lie outside of science.

Exactly. Science seeks explanations for the natural world around us. In that individual area which consists of matter, science can do a lot of good.

But – good deeds do not mean the death of the supernatural.

 

[tonyrey]

Exactly. Science seeks explanations for the natural world around us. In that individual area which consists of matter, science can do a lot of good.

But – good deeds do not mean the death of the supernatural.

Without supernature nothing is good or bad, only natural, i.e. behaving in the only way it can!

 

[inocente]

The Jews would have been the group to carry the records. Are you asking for a Jewish original source or a Catholic one?

(Re. Adam being buried at Calvery). Don’t mind bro, I just never heard of it before. Only thing I could find is below, but it doesn’t say if it’s a tradition in the sense that Santa Claus is a tradition or if there’s more to it. Since Adam is fictional I suspect the former.

Directly beneath Calvary on the main floor (entered through a door next to the Stone of Unction) is the Chapel of Adam, which enshrines a cracked slab of rock behind glass. This identification with Adam is based on the ancient tradition (noted by Origen in the 2nd century) that Christ was crucified over the place where Adam was buried. The crack in the rock is said to be caused by the earthquake that occurred during the Crucifixion. Archaeologists suggest it was probably an original flaw that caused the workmen to abandon this section of the old quarry. - sacred-destinations.com/israel/jerusalem-church-of-holy-sepulchre

 

[inocente]

Pardon me, I am still trying to figure out which “church” teaches that all species are in the image of God. Or could it be possible that some, not all, people do not have a clue regarding a transcendent pure spirit?

Consider yourself pardoned . I was commenting on what another poster said, but personally see no reason why a golden eagle can’t partake in this transcendent pure spirit of which you speak – the Bible doesn’t say, to paraphrase Orwell, “All animals are sacred, but some animals are more sacred than others”.

*Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. – Matt 10:29 NIV

Praise the LORD from the earth,
you great sea creatures and all ocean depths,
lightning and hail, snow and clouds,
stormy winds that do his bidding,
you mountains and all hills,
fruit trees and all cedars,
wild animals and all cattle,
small creatures and flying birds,
kings of the earth and all nations,
you princes and all rulers on earth,
young men and women,
old men and children.
Let them praise the name of the LORD,
for his name alone is exalted;
his splendor is above the earth and the heavens. – Psalm 148*

 

[inocente]

Why not 6 or 8 limbs; I would be better off with more hands, or four feet on which I could balance.
The proposition is that an intelligent being created mankind along with the animals. Show me some fossils or evidence that anything other than 4 limbed creatures existed.

So you’re saying God lacked the intelligence to give you the extra limbs you want?

 

[inocente]

Einstein and Newton both stuggled mightily to understand the most complex mathematical laws of nature. How is it that Nature, without struggling to understand, produced these complex mathematical laws, and laid the groundwork for them, at the time of the Big Bang?

I think Einstein’s answer was a deist god, since he said the Bible is childish, but all such “proofs” seem no more than arguments from incredulity.

 

[inocente]

So what exactly do Catholics believe when it comes to Adam and Eve? I can’t tell because the opinions are conflicting. ALL priests I personally talked to told me Adam and Eve are symbolic characters. Buffalo believes Adam actually celebrated his 930th birthday.

From personal experience I recommend not holding your breath waiting for an agreement.

 

[inocente]

John Paul II did not believe in evolution by Chance…

Then JPII was spot on the button as only those who don’t have a clue could think for one moment evolution happens purely by chance .

My old dog was named Chance, and even he didn’t appear to believe he caused evolution. He wasn’t given to circular arguments, although at times he admittedly chased his tail.

 

[grannymh]

Consider yourself pardoned . I was commenting on what another poster said, but personally see no reason why a golden eagle can’t partake in this transcendent pure spirit of which you speak – the Bible doesn’t say, to paraphrase Orwell, “All animals are sacred, but some animals are more sacred than others”.

Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. – Matt 10:29 NIV

*Praise the LORD from the earth, *
*you great sea creatures and all ocean depths, *
*lightning and hail, snow and clouds, *
*stormy winds that do his bidding, *
*you mountains and all hills, *
*fruit trees and all cedars, *
*wild animals and all cattle, *
*small creatures and flying birds, *
*kings of the earth and all nations, *
*you princes and all rulers on earth, *
*young men and women, *
*old men and children. *
*Let them praise the name of the LORD, *
*for his name alone is exalted; *
his splendor is above the earth and the heavens. – Psalm 148

The difference is that I believe Catholic teaching that human nature, in itself, is an unique unification of both the material world and the spiritual world.

In other words, I do not look at a human person and say – what a wonderful golden eagle sub-species you are!

 

[buffalo]

Thank you for your post 1.

Small comment. Science and Religion are “one” in that both search for truth. In order for truth to be found, Science has to be conducted properly and Religion has to be properly understood.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect.

That is the essence of IDvolution:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[buffalo]

Yeah, but to believe that 7 billion humans are the descendants of one guy created out of clay and a women out of his rib who sinned(pursuaded by a talking reptile) for eating a forbidden fruit based on a 3000 year old book is SOOOOO believable

Why not? The Romans used Christianity for political reasons which led to Christianity to spread around the world. Maybe if circumstances were different we would be having this conversation about the Roman Gods. Btw, I never claimed Jesus never existed.

It is even a smaller timeframe - the 7 billion is since Noah.

World Population Since Creation

 

[buffalo]

So what exactly do Catholics believe when it comes to Adam and Eve? I can’t tell because the opinions are conflicting. ALL priests I personally talked to told me Adam and Eve are symbolic characters. Buffalo believes Adam actually celebrated his 930th birthday. Then I read that Catholics MUST believe in Adam and Eve as historical people while science says it is genetically impossible that all people descended from two people.
I personally think it is impossible on all accounts. I don’t know what’s harder for me to believe: that Adam and Eve are historical people and our first parents OR that educated adults actually believe they are historical people all humans descended from. I’ll give it a tie.

Give me your best argument against long ages.