Science told: hands off gay sheep

[wabrams]

Isabel Oakeshott and Chris Gourlay
Experiments that claim to ‘cure’ homosexual rams spark anger

http://images.thetimes.co.uk/images/trans.gifSCIENTISTS are conducting experiments to change the sexuality of “gay” sheep in a programme that critics fear could pave the way for breeding out homosexuality in humans.
The technique being developed by American researchers adjusts the hormonal balance in the brains of homosexual rams so that they are more inclined to mate with ewes. NI_MPU(‘middle’);

It raises the prospect that pregnant women could one day be offered a treatment to reduce or eliminate the chance that their offspring will be homosexual. Experts say that, in theory, the “straightening” procedure on humans could be as simple as a hormone supplement for mothers-to-be, worn on the skin like an anti-smoking nicotine patch.

Source

 

[WanderAimlessly]

Interesting article. A couple of paragraphs stood out to me:

Navratilova defended the “right” of sheep to be gay. She said: “How can it be that in the year 2006 a major university would host such homophobic and cruel experiments?” She said gay men and lesbians would be “deeply offended” by the social implications of the tests.

No. Sheep have the right to be on my dinner table and to be part of the clothing I wear.

Peter Tatchell, the gay rights campaigner, said: “These experiments echo Nazi research in the early 1940s which aimed at eradicating homosexuality. They stink of eugenics. There is a danger that extreme homophobic regimes may try to use these experimental results to change the orientation of gay people.”

Ah, with the Nazi label again. Eugenics is about killing people with undesirable traits and maladies, not curing them. Get your facts straight Tatchell.

 

[mommyof4]

I’m really curious - HOW did they determine that these sheep were gay in the first place? Did they paint their horns and hooves pink, wear makeup, or WHAT??? I’m sitting here and imagining what effeminate sheep would look like…

 

[pathia]

Interesting article. A couple of paragraphs stood out to me:No. Sheep have the right to be on my dinner table and to be part of the clothing I wear. Ah, with the Nazi label again. Eugenics is about killing people with undesirable traits and maladies, not curing them. Get your facts straight Tatchell.

I don’t think it stinks of Eugenics YET.

However, what if they manage to work out a vaccine to be given in the womb? Would you oppose that? Then take it farther. What if they figured out how to just give a current gay person a shot, and cure them. Would we make laws to force them to take the shots?

 

[pathia]

I’m really curious - HOW did they determine that these sheep were gay in the first place? Did they paint their horns and hooves pink, wear makeup, or WHAT??? I’m sitting here and imagining what effeminate sheep would look like…

One in ten rams will only mount other rams, they refuse to mount the ewes (female sheep).

 

[WanderAimlessly]

However, what if they manage to work out a vaccine to be given in the womb? Would you oppose that?

Actually, if it is 100% safe, no, I would not oppose it.

Then take it farther. What if they figured out how to just give a current gay person a shot, and cure them. Would we make laws to force them to take the shots?

I would probably opposed to any law that would make it mandatory with the exception of sexual preditors. It may cure some of their desires.

 

[Zooey]

I’m really curious - HOW did they determine that these sheep were gay in the first place? Did they paint their horns and hooves pink, wear makeup, or WHAT??? I’m sitting here and imagining what effeminate sheep would look like…

A friend swears they had a gay bull when he was growing up…It would jump the fence & go next door to visit the neighbors’ gay sheep…
Should I ask how they knew that the sheep was gay?? Or is that all together :bigyikes: Too Much Information??? …

Yeah… TMI.

 

[Other_Eric]

I would urge a fair amount of skepticism on this supposed “cure.” We must remember that it rests upon the rather questionable science of a biological origin for homosexual behavior. For my part, I will await the peer review and if it turns out to have any merit to it, then I would happily use it in any and all prenatal care.

 

[pathia]

I would urge a fair amount of skepticism on this supposed “cure.” We must remember that it rests upon the rather questionable science of a biological origin for homosexual behavior. For my part, I will await the peer review and if it turns out to have any merit to it, then I would happily use it in any and all prenatal care.

It’s questionable in humans that it has a biological origin. In animals, that’s another matter. Animals can be brought up in very controlled environments and situations, yet in sheep 1/10 of the males are always gay, without fail until this development. They have much simpler brains mind you.

My personal though is that in humans, SSA is some sort of combination, whether its 90% genetic and 10% upbringing or 90% upbringing and 10% genetic I have no clue, but how the studies always come out conflicting each other, or not showing 100% correlation tells me there are many factors, not just one ‘gene’ or one ‘absent father’

 

[Other_Eric]

It’s questionable in humans that it has a biological origin. In animals, that’s another matter. Animals can be brought up in very controlled environments and situations, yet in sheep 1/10 of the males are always gay, without fail until this development. They have much simpler brains mind you.

My personal though is that in humans, SSA is some sort of combination, whether its 90% genetic and 10% upbringing or 90% upbringing and 10% genetic I have no clue, but how the studies always come out conflicting each other, or not showing 100% correlation tells me there are many factors, not just one ‘gene’ or one ‘absent father’

In the absence of any studies of rams being brought up in controlled environments and the 10% figure still holding firm, I would imagine that the science behind “gay rams” is every bit as shaky as the science behind “gay men.” Still, I would welcome a link or reference to any sort of peer-reviewed study that supports this supposed iron-clad rule of one-in-ten.

 

[puzzleannie]

One in ten rams will only mount other rams, they refuse to mount the ewes (female sheep).

and how do the other rams react to this action of their fellows?
gay is a political term, not a biological one, and rams don’t care about politics, so as the issue is one of biology the term gay in such a scientific discussion is anachronistic and inaccurate.

 

[Stu]

(I posted this on another forum where this is being discussed.) Aside from the silly notion of Martina Navratilova defending the “right” of sheep to be gay this article shows the other side of the “homosexuals are born that way” coin. Some homosexuals make the claim that they would never choose such a lifestyle due to the baggage it brings with it. It is a bit ironic that given the potential of a cure that other homosexuals would see such a thing as a threat.

I have often said that the identification of a “gay gene” or other such medical cause for homosexuality would not bring the freedom that many homosexuals think it would. This is one such example. Furthermore, what if science can identify homosexual children in utero and parents then start to abort the children? Quite the dilemma for many on the left.

 

[johnnycatholic]

Since sheep aren’t morally culpable for their actions, there is no sin in these sheep being engaging in homosexual acts. Therefore, i would assume that these sheep are being “cured” so that they will mate to produce more little sheep so i can have mittens and muttons. Am i wrong in this assumption? If not, why are these people outraged? There is no moral indictment of homosexuality in humans, it’s simply a way for farmers to get more from their livestock.
Also, sheep don’t know if they’re gay or not. They’re not going to feel ashamed if they’ve been “cured” but the other sheep still stare at them because they know of their sordid pasts. Furthermore, they’ll probably get eaten in the spring anyway, so who cares?

 

[Nohome]

I would welcome a link or reference to any sort of peer-reviewed study that supports this supposed iron-clad rule of one-in-ten.

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2294/is_n1-2_v39/ai_21136469

Moving along to mammals, Anne Perkins and James Fitzgerald, in “Sexual Orientation in Domestic Rams: Some Biological and Social Correlates,” have documented - as have other researchers - that approximately 10% of domestic male sheep are homosexual in their orientation.

 

[Jennifer123]

In the absence of any studies of rams being brought up in controlled environments and the 10% figure still holding firm, I would imagine that the science behind “gay rams” is every bit as shaky as the science behind “gay men.” Still, I would welcome a link or reference to any sort of peer-reviewed study that supports this supposed iron-clad rule of one-in-ten.

The “10%” claim is based primarily on Kinsey’s research, which is highly flawed and most likely inflated, but also very influential even today. Most of modern sexual education is based on this dubious work of Kinsey, which is perpetuated by Planned Parenthood and the Kinsey Institute.

 

[Jennifer123]

The activists seek to tie homosexuality as being as incidental as, say, left-handedness.

To me, finding a gene, as unlikely as that is, means nothing as there are many undesireable things passed genetically like obesity, alcoholism and drug dependency, proclivity to violence. We certainly don’t condone people to eat themselves to death just because they were “made that way”.

Just anecdotally, even without the knowledge of how homosexuality removes us from God’s grace on a spiritual level, the fruits of the orientation show us that it is a lifestyle that fails to fulfill us as whole and authentic human beings due to disease, abuse, mental health issues, the tendency for gays to assume gender roles that they weren’t born as, etc.

 

[pathia]

The “10%” claim is based primarily on Kinsey’s research, which is highly flawed and most likely inflated, but also very influential even today. Most of modern sexual education is based on this dubious work of Kinsey, which is perpetuated by Planned Parenthood and the Kinsey Institute.

Kinsey never studied sheep (That I’m aware of). This research has nothing to do with Kinsey, other than it also having to do with sexual preference.

Rams of this species are always roughly 10% gay (8% actually to be very specific). They know this, because the farmers notice it as it hurts their profits by 8%, as they have a noticeable minority of their herd that will not reproduce/act properly. It is not an argued fact.

Now, whether or not it is because of genetics, or the way we breed barn animals is another debate. However, I’ve never really thought animals were much effected by lack of a father figure. They have instincts to cover those actions, rather than having to learn like humans.

 

[pathia]

Some other articles that mention the 10% (or 8%) number in sheep. I tried to avoid the most obvious leftist sites, but that is difficult on the internet.

newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3008
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2404109.stm
narth.com/docs/sheep.html
seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002340883_gayscience19m.html
gazettetimes.com/articles/2005/08/12/news/community/fri02.txt

 

[Other_Eric]

Kinsey never studied sheep (That I’m aware of). This research has nothing to do with Kinsey, other than it also having to do with sexual preference.

Rams of this species are always roughly 10% gay (8% actually to be very specific). They know this, because the farmers notice it as it hurts their profits by 8%, as they have a noticeable minority of their herd that will not reproduce/act properly. It is not an argued fact.

Now, whether or not it is because of genetics, or the way we breed barn animals is another debate. However, I’ve never really thought animals were much effected by lack of a father figure. They have instincts to cover those actions, rather than having to learn like humans.

The “10%” claim is based primarily on Kinsey’s research, which is highly flawed and most likely inflated, but also very influential even today. Most of modern sexual education is based on this dubious work of Kinsey, which is perpetuated by Planned Parenthood and the Kinsey Institute.

I am going to have to agree with pathia on this one. The article in question gives no indication that Kinsey’s figure has been brought to bear on the 10% figure given for rams that will only mount other rams. It seems to me that this sort of thing would be readily observable in farmers’ profit-and-loss records quite separately from Kinsey’s questionable research. The article seems to imply that this behavior in rams is a common phenomenon, since no one would fund research to cure something any more rare than that.

As I said, I would like to see some of this independent verification of the phenomenon since, I myself, had not heard of it before reading this article. One poster was kind enough to point me to an article from 1998 that attempts to do this, though I remain unconvinced and would prefer to see mentions of the phenomena made outside the realm of some sort of agenda to form a biological basis for same-sex attraction in humans.

I think what I would find most helpful is testimony from those who have a history of breeding these animals or, perhaps, profit-and-loss records going back about fifty years.

 

[Dee_Dee_King]

how do you define a gay sheep? would these same sheep mount other animals too? how does it know it’s a male sheep? how exactly do two male sheeps have intercourse?

i have seen dogs mount legs and other male dogs, i wouldn’t say they were gay–they’re animals, they’ll mount anything. i had a female dog hump my leg.

i’m very skeptical of this study. i think they have an agenda. animals can’t be gay because that requires an intellect.