Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an

[Edris]

I have seen many claims so far on this forum that Muhammad pbuh had no miracles like Moses and Jesus pbuh and that he didn’t prophesies about anything.

Muhammad pbuh had so many miracles and the prophecies reached 100 hundreds. But Muslims consider the Qur’an as the greatest miracle. I’m not gonna go through the other miracles and prophecies for I think we have talked about in other threads enough. Note that the scientific miracles I’ll mention are just a small portion of what’s really in the Qur’an. I’ll provide more of the scientific miracles from the Qur’an later.

1- Wind Pollination.

"And We send the winds fertilizing, then caused the water (rain) to descend from the sky, and We gave it to you to drink, and it is not you who are the owners of its stores" (Qur’an 15:22)

Of the 250000 species of flowering plants only 10% (25000) are wind-pollinated. This 10%, however, includes all the cereal plants such as wheat, rice and maize. It also includes most of the trees found in forests.

2- Black Holes.

"And by the planets that move swiftly and hide themselves," (Qur’an 81:16)

The verse talks about planets in Arabic described as “Al-Jawari” “Al-Konnas”. Those two words respectively mean “The Moving swiftly” and “The hidden”

"Then when the stars lose their lights;" (Qur’an 77:8)

The term “black hole” was first employed in 1969 by the American physicist John Wheeler. Previously, we imagined that we were able to see all the stars. However, it later emerged that there were stars in space whose light we were unable to perceive. Because, the light of these collapsed stars disappears. Light cannot escape from a black hole because it is such a high concentration of mass in a small space. The enormous gravitation captures even the fastest particles, i.e. the photons. For example, the final stage of a typical star, three times the mass of the Sun, ends after its burning out and its implosion as a black hole of only 20 kilometres in diameter! Black holes are “black,” i.e. veiled from direct observation. They nevertheless reveal themselves indirectly, by the tremendous suction which their gravitational force exerts on other heavenly bodies.

3- The Position of the Stars.

"So I swear by the stars’ positions-and that is a mighty oath if you only knew." (Qur’an 56:75-76)

Why would Allah (swt) swear by the stars’ positions and not by the star itself? Here’s the interesting fact. The light from the sun which is the closest star to us takes 8 minutes to reach us, so by the time you see the sun, it has already moved from that position 8 minutes ago. The stars you see at night are light years away from us, it takes the light from these stars many years to reach us, so when you look at a star at night, you’re actually looking at the position of the star and not at the star itself, the star has already moved from that position many years ago.

4- Sub-Atomic Particles.

**“Those who disbelieve say: “The Hour will not come to us” Say: “Yes, by my Lord, it will come to you” (Allâh, He is) the All¬Knower of the unseen, not even the weight of an atom or less than that or greater, escapes from His Knowledge in the heavens or in the earth, but it is in a Clear Book (Al¬Lauh Al¬Mahfûz)” (Qur’an 34:3)

“Whatever you (O Muhammad) may be doing, and whatever portion you may be reciting from the Qur’an, - and whatever deed you (mankind) may be doing (good or evil), We are Witness thereof, when you are doing it And nothing is hidden from your Lord (so much as) the weight of an atom on the earth or in the heaven Not what is less than that or what is greater than that but is (written) in a Clear Record” (Qur’an 10:61)**

Following the development of the atomic theory of the Greek philosopher Democritus, people used to believe that matter consisted of minute, indivisible and indestructible particles known as atoms. However, advances in the study of atoms have refuted this notion. At the present time, modern science has revealed that the atom, previously regarded as the smallest particle, can actually be split. This fact only emerged in the last century!.

Cont……

 

[Edris]

5- Duality In Creation.

"Glory be to Him Who created all the pairs: from what the earth produces and from themselves and from things unknown to them." (Qur’an 36:36)

This is one of my favorite miracles that is found in the Holy Qur’an. Look closely at the Surah (chapter) number and the verse number; both are 36 (it resembles pairs)!

Now let’s talk about the verse itself. “from what the earth produces” it’s talking about animals and plants; for those of you who don’t know, even plants are in pairs (i.e. male and female). “from themselves” it’s talking about us (humans) we are also in pairs (men and women). So far doesn’t sound much like a miracle, but let’s look at the last part of the verse “and from things unknown to them.” The British physicist Paul Dirac, who discovered that matter was created in pairs, won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1933. This finding, known as “parity,” revealed the duality known as matter and anti-matter. Anti-matter bears the opposite characteristics to matter. For instance, contrary to matter, anti-matter electrons are positive and protons negative. This fact is expressed in a scientific source as follows:

“… every particle has its antiparticle of opposite charge… [T]he uncertainty relation tells us that pair creation and pair annihilation happen in the vacuum at all times, in all places.” (Henning Genz, “Nothingness: The Science of Empty Space,” 205, www.2think.org/nothingness.shtm)

Another example of duality in creation is plants. Botanists only discovered that there is a gender distinction in plants some 100 years ago. Yet, the fact that plants are created in pairs was revealed in the following verses of the Qur’an 1,400 years ago:

"It is He Who made the earth a cradle for you and threaded pathways for you through it and sent down water from the sky by which We have brought forth diverse pairs of plants." (Qur’an 20:53)

6- Fireless Light.

"Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The metaphor of His Light is that of a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp inside a glass, the glass like a brilliant star, lit from a blessed tree, an olive, neither of the east nor of the west, its oil all but giving off light even if no fire touches it. Light upon Light. Allah guides to His Light whoever He wills and Allah makes metaphors for mankind and Allah has knowledge of all things." (Qur’an, 24:35)

Just to remind you this verse was revealed on Muhammad pbuh more than 1400 years ago.

Cont…

 

[Edris]

7- The Weight of Clouds.

**"It is He Who sends out the winds, bringing advance news of His mercy, so that when they have lifted up the heavy clouds, We dispatch them to a dead land and send down water to it, by means of which We bring forth all kinds of fruit… " (Qur’an 7:57)

“It is He Who shows you the lightning, striking fear and bringing hope; it is He Who heaps up the heavy clouds.” (Qur’an, 13:12)**

The weight of clouds can reach quite astonishing proportions. For example, a cumulonimbus cloud, commonly known as the thunder cloud, can contain up to 300,000 tons of water.
The fact that a mass of 300,000 tons of water can remain aloft is truly amazing.

“…a modest-size cloud, one kilometer in diameter and 100 meters thick, has a mass equivalent to one 747 (i.e. Boeing 747)” straightdope.com/classics/a980313a.html

Also newton.dep.anl.gov/newton/askasci/1993/general/GEN012.HTM

8- The Proportion of Rain.

"It is He Who sends down water in due measure from the sky by which We bring a dead land back to life. That is how you too will be raised [from the dead]." (Qur’an 43:11)

This measured quantity in rain has again been discovered by modern research. It is estimated that in one second, approximately 16 million tons of water evaporates from the Earth. This figure amounts to 513 trillion tons of water in one year. This number is equal to the amount of rain that falls on the Earth in a year. Therefore, water continuously circulates in a balanced cycle, according to a “measure.” Life on Earth depends on this water cycle.

The proportion of rain does not merely apply to its quantity, but also to the speed of the falling raindrops. The speed of raindrops, regardless of their size, does not exceed a certain limit. Philipp Lenard, a German physicist who received the Nobel Prize in physics in 1905, found that the fall speed increased with drop diameter until a size of 4.5 mm (0.18 inch). For larger drops, however, the fall speed did not increase beyond 8 metres per second (26 ft/sec). (54. Keith C. Heidorn, Ph.D., “Philipp Lenard: Brushing the Teardrops from Rain,”) He attributed this to the changes in drop shape caused by the air flow as the drop size increased. The change in shape thus increased the air resistance of the drop and slowed its fall rate.

9- How The Process of Photosynthesis Begins in the Morning.

*“And * by the night when it draws in, and by the dawn when it breathes in.” (Qur’an 81:17-18)

When plants undergo photosynthesis, they take in carbon dioxide, a harmful gas that human beings cannot consume, from the air, and give off oxygen instead. Oxygen, which we breathe and which is our basic source of life, is the main product of photosynthesis. Some 30% of the oxygen in the atmosphere is produced by plants on land, the remaining 70% being produced by plants and single-celled living things in the seas and oceans.

The productivity of photosynthesis is measured by the level of oxygen output. The greatest point is in the morning, when the Sun’s rays are most concentrated. At dawn, the leaves begin to sweat, and photosynthesis increases accordingly. In the afternoon, however, the opposite applies; in other words photosynthesis slows down, and respiration increases because as the temperature rises perspiration also increases. At night, as the temperature falls, perspiration declines and the plant rests.
The term “itha tanaffasa” in Surat at-Takwir, in reference to the morning hours, in other words, “when it breathes in,” is a metaphorical reference to breathing, respiration, or breathing deeply. This term particularly emphasises the way that the production of oxygen begins in the morning, and that the greatest levels of oxygen, essential for respiration, are given off at that time. The importance of the phenomena is also emphasised by the way that Allah swears upon it. The way that Allah indicates the action of photosynthesis, among the most important discoveries of the 20th century, in this verse, is another of the scientific miracles of the Qur’an.

Ok remember that this is just a small fraction of the scientific miracles of the Qur’an. And remember that this was revealed upon Muhammad pbuh more than 1400 years ago and that he was illiterate. Later God willing I’ll post more regarding this.

Peace**

 

[Reuben_J]

Not again …

Edris, if we are to discuss this seriously and correctly we need to bring in a couple of scientists here. Are you one? I’m saying we can just make asumption to support our thesis but without real scientific backing, it’s doesn’t prove anything. By that you can say 1001 things there’s scientific miracles in Quran, because the examples given are very general.

 

[Reuben_J]

Just an example:-

Edris:

8- The Proportion of Rain.

"It is He Who sends down water in due measure from the sky by which We bring a dead land back to life. That is how you too will be raised [from the dead]." (Qur’an 43:11)

This measured quantity in rain has again been discovered by modern research. It is estimated that in one second, approximately 16 million tons of water evaporates from the Earth. This figure amounts to 513 trillion tons of water in one year. This number is equal to the amount of rain that falls on the Earth in a year. Therefore, water continuously circulates in a balanced cycle, according to a “measure.” Life on Earth depends on this water cycle.

The proportion of rain does not merely apply to its quantity, but also to the speed of the falling raindrops. The speed of raindrops, regardless of their size, does not exceed a certain limit. Philipp Lenard, a German physicist who received the Nobel Prize in physics in 1905, found that the fall speed increased with drop diameter until a size of 4.5 mm (0.18 inch). For larger drops, however, the fall speed did not increase beyond 8 metres per second (26 ft/sec). (54. Keith C. Heidorn, Ph.D., “Philipp Lenard: Brushing the Teardrops from Rain,”) He attributed this to the changes in drop shape caused by the air flow as the drop size increased. The change in shape thus increased the air resistance of the drop and slowed its fall rate.

The word “measure” just can apply to anything. It can be a figure of speech or just to say it’s a heavy rain, etc. Any illiterate would know how to say such thing.

What then make this a scientific miracle? If you think it is, then it is. In order to agree with you, which I don’t, the Quran needs to state categorically and includes findings in the discovery of the modern reseacrh you mention.

I don’t know, based on your line of logic, I’m sure we can find ‘scientific miracles’ in many of old writings and literatures.

 

[Faith101]

Reuben J:

Not again …

Edris, if we are to discuss this seriously and correctly we need to bring in a couple of scientists here. Are you one? I’m saying we can just make asumption to support our thesis but without real scientific backing, it’s doesn’t prove anything. By that you can say 1001 things there’s scientific miracles in Quran, because the examples given are very general.

from the *non-muslim * scientists…

islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-h.htm

you can go through that site too if you like, it goes through the details in an easy to understand manner.

 

[Reuben_J]

Faith101:

from the *non-muslim * scientists…

islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-h.htm

you can go through that site too if you like, it goes through the details in an easy to understand manner.

I took a quick review of the site. Sympathatic comments about scientific accuracies of verses in the Quran. I have no problem with those comments. If that can be considered miracles, then many things/books will be. Then Quran would be just one of the books which, I think, a dishonor to it.

 

[Edris]

Reuben J:

Not again …

Edris, if we are to discuss this seriously and correctly we need to bring in a couple of scientists here. Are you one? I’m saying we can just make asumption to support our thesis but without real scientific backing, it’s doesn’t prove anything. By that you can say 1001 things there’s scientific miracles in Quran, because the examples given are very general.

I don’t consider myself a scientist, but i’m about to finish my masters degree in Biochemisty, I already have a B.Sc. degree in Biology and a minor degree in Buisness. If there is a catholic scientist in this forum, I’d happily welcome any comments on what I brought forth so far. The verses that i mentioned, make good sense to me. You need some basic knowledge of general science to understand them, I don’t deny that. I also don’t see how general it is when the verse says “winds fertilizing”, or “stars’ positions”, or “not even the weight of an atom or less than that”, “heavy clouds”, “Who sends down water in due measure”. I don’t consider these terms general never the less “very general” as you claim.

Anyways, I opened this thread upon DeExupery’s request in another thread.

You can also open another thread and show me 1001 miracles from the Bible.

What scientists say about the Qur’an
geocities.com/islamicmiracles/scientists_on_the_quran1.htm

Peace

 

[Reuben_J]

Edris:

Anyways, I opened this thread upon DeExupery’s request in another thread.

You can also open another thread and show me 1001 miracles from the Bible.

What scientists say about the Qur’an
geocities.com/islamicmiracles/scientists_on_the_quran1.htm

Peace

Just my thought.

I can’t show you the 1001 miracles from the Bible. I didn’t say the Bible. And there’s no point to try to do that - for what putpose?

Can the verses below be considered scientific miracles? (Gen 1:3-9).

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Faith101:

from the *non-muslim * scientists…

islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-h.htm

you can go through that site too if you like, it goes through the details in an easy to understand manner.

Do you Muslims even realise the implication of bringing these sorts of apologetics? Heck, even Bucaille and Moore never converted to Islam.

Several of these non-Muslim scientists claim they were ‘quoted out of context’ or hoodwinked into making the statements that they did.

If you can prove Bucaille and Keith Moore converted to Islam you might have a point. If these people don’t even see the ‘science in the Quran’ worth converting for, why should anyone else?

Methinks, they just too the money and laughed all the way to the bank. Who bought their science in the Quran books? Gullible Muslims who believe kafir scientists who don’t convert to Islam.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Edris,
TEXT DELETED

You claimed:

Edris:

2- Black Holes.

“And by the planets that move swiftly and hide themselves,” (Qur’an 81:16)

The verse talks about planets in Arabic described as “Al-Jawari” “Al-Konnas”. Those two words respectively mean “The Moving swiftly” and “The hidden”

“Then when the stars lose their lights;” (Qur’an 77:8)

The term “black hole” was first employed in 1969 by the American physicist John Wheeler. Previously, we imagined that we were able to see all the stars. However, it later emerged that there were stars in space whose light we were unable to perceive. Because, the light of these collapsed stars disappears. Light cannot escape from a black hole because it is such a high concentration of mass in a small space. The enormous gravitation captures even the fastest particles, i.e. the photons. For example, the final stage of a typical star, three times the mass of the Sun, ends after its burning out and its implosion as a black hole of only 20 kilometres in diameter! Black holes are “black,” i.e. veiled from direct observation. They nevertheless reveal themselves indirectly, by the tremendous suction which their gravitational force exerts on other heavenly bodies.

Let me turn the ‘out of context’ excuse back on the Islamist.

Do you know the context of verse 77? Isn’t it talking about the ‘DAY OF JUDGMENT’? I think the Catholics refer to this as the Apocalyse.

If the lights of stars are put out on this specific day, how can you explain using the ayat as the apologetic for black holes? I know you’re not a scientist but at least google and not make nonsensical statements. Black holes are formed throughout the history of the universe. In contrast, 77:8 only talks about the apocalypse.

As for 81:16 - that is so laughable. Do you know what black holes are? Do they have anything to do with planets?

When I have time I will rip the rest of your apologetics apart.

Ciao,
Cid.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Edris:

I have seen many claims so far on this forum that Muhammad pbuh had no miracles like Moses and Jesus pbuh and that he didn’t prophesies about anything.

Muhammad pbuh had so many miracles and the prophecies reached 100 hundreds. But Muslims consider the Qur’an as the greatest miracle. I’m not gonna go through the other miracles and prophecies for I think we have talked about in other threads enough. Note that the scientific miracles I’ll mention are just a small portion of what’s really in the Qur’an. I’ll provide more of the scientific miracles from the Qur’an later.

The only miracle is people can believe these pseudoscientific nonsense.

Edris:

1- Wind Pollination.

“And We send the winds fertilizing, then caused the water (rain) to descend from the sky, and We gave it to you to drink, and it is not you who are the owners of its stores” (Qur’an 15:22)

Of the 250000 species of flowering plants only 10% (25000) are wind-pollinated. This 10%, however, includes all the cereal plants such as wheat, rice and maize. It also includes most of the trees found in forests.

The ancients already knew that winds played a role in fertilizing or fecundating. Claudius Ptolemy, in his book I of the Tetrabiblos, part 4. The power of the Planets, thought that Jupiter is responsible for the ‘fertilizing winds’.

Edris:

2- Black Holes.

“And by the planets that move swiftly and hide themselves,” (Qur’an 81:16)

The verse talks about planets in Arabic described as “Al-Jawari” “Al-Konnas”. Those two words respectively mean “The Moving swiftly” and “The hidden”

“Then when the stars lose their lights;” (Qur’an 77:8)

The term “black hole” was first employed in 1969 by the American physicist John Wheeler. Previously, we imagined that we were able to see all the stars. However, it later emerged that there were stars in space whose light we were unable to perceive. Because, the light of these collapsed stars disappears. Light cannot escape from a black hole because it is such a high concentration of mass in a small space. The enormous gravitation captures even the fastest particles, i.e. the photons. For example, the final stage of a typical star, three times the mass of the Sun, ends after its burning out and its implosion as a black hole of only 20 kilometres in diameter! Black holes are “black,” i.e. veiled from direct observation. They nevertheless reveal themselves indirectly, by the tremendous suction which their gravitational force exerts on other heavenly bodies.

Black holes have nothing to do with planets. The Ayat 77:8 is used ‘out of context’. It actually speaks of the ‘Day of Judgment’ and clearly has nothing to do with Black Holes which are formed throughout the life of the Universe and are not formed only on the Day of Judgment.

Edris:

3- The Position of the Stars.

“So I swear by the stars’ positions-and that is a mighty oath if you only knew.” (Qur’an 56:75-76)

Why would Allah (swt) swear by the stars’ positions and not by the star itself? Here’s the interesting fact. The light from the sun which is the closest star to us takes 8 minutes to reach us, so by the time you see the sun, it has already moved from that position 8 minutes ago. The stars you see at night are light years away from us, it takes the light from these stars many years to reach us, so when you look at a star at night, you’re actually looking at the position of the star and not at the star itself, the star has already moved from that position many years ago.

This is mere apologetics. Mawaqi can mean ‘setting, falling, or mansions’.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Edris:

4- Sub-Atomic Particles.

"Those who disbelieve say: “The Hour will not come to us” …(Qur’an 34:3)

…nothing is hidden from your Lord (so much as) the weight of an atom on the earth or in the heaven Not what is less than that or what is greater than that but is (written) in a Clear Record" (Qur’an 10:61)

Following the development of the atomic theory of the Greek philosopher Democritus, people used to believe that matter consisted of minute, indivisible and indestructible particles known as atoms. However, advances in the study of atoms have refuted this notion. At the present time, modern science has revealed that the atom, previously regarded as the smallest particle, can actually be split. This fact only emerged in the last century!.

Dharrah means ant or dust particle. There is no evidence that the 7th century Arabs knew anything about the atom, thus it is likely that the Quran was referring to a small particle like an ant or a dust mote. It is only modern interpretation that dharrah means atom.

Ibn Kathir explains dharrah to mean mustard seed or speck of dust.

And from Sahih Muslim Hadith 16, chapter 1:
… Let him create a small ant (dharrah) or a grain of wheat.’

Nevertheless, despite Islamist claims, the Quran was not the first to claim that atoms can be subdivided (if we accept dharrah is atom). Consider the following from the writings of the first century Mahayana philosopher Ashvaghosha: When we divide some gross (or composite) matter, we can reduce it to atoms. But as the atom will also be subject to further division, all forms of material existence, whether gross or fine, are nothing but the shadow of particularisation and we cannot ascribe any degree of (absolute or independent) reality to them. (Ashvaghosha, The Awakening of Faith, translated by D.T. Suzuki, (Chicagom 1900) p. 104)

Edris:

5- Duality In Creation.

“Glory be to Him Who created all the pairs: from what the earth produces and from themselves and from things unknown to them.” (Qur’an 36:36)

This is one of my favorite miracles that is found in the Holy Qur’an. Look closely at the Surah (chapter) number and the verse number; both are 36 (it resembles pairs)!

Now let’s talk about the verse itself. “from what the earth produces” it’s talking about animals and plants; for those of you who don’t know, even plants are in pairs (i.e. male and female). “from themselves” it’s talking about us (humans) we are also in pairs (men and women). So far doesn’t sound much like a miracle, but let’s look at the last part of the verse “and from things unknown to them.” The British physicist Paul Dirac, who discovered that matter was created in pairs, won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1933. This finding, known as “parity,” revealed the duality known as matter and anti-matter. Anti-matter bears the opposite characteristics to matter. For instance, contrary to matter, anti-matter electrons are positive and protons negative. This fact is expressed in a scientific source as follows:

“… every particle has its antiparticle of opposite charge… [T]he uncertainty relation tells us that pair creation and pair annihilation happen in the vacuum at all times, in all places.” (Henning Genz, “Nothingness: The Science of Empty Space,” 205, www.2think.org/nothingness.shtm)

Another example of duality in creation is plants. Botanists only discovered that there is a gender distinction in plants some 100 years ago. Yet, the fact that plants are created in pairs was revealed in the following verses of the Qur’an 1,400 years ago:

“It is He Who made the earth a cradle for you and threaded pathways for you through it and sent down water from the sky by which We have brought forth diverse pairs of plants.” (Qur’an 20:53)

For a favorite miracle, you don’t take the trouble to find out the scientific facts. Most plants are not created in pairs – they are hermaphrodites – meaning they are both male and female.

Secondly, the matter anti-matter example is completely in error. Our universe shows a lack of antimatter (which is a theoretical concept only). The current hypothesis that explains the lack of antimatter in our Universe is that matter and antimatter are not symmetric. This created an imbalance during the big bang and resulted in the creation of about .0001% more matter than antimatter. After one second almost all of the matter and antimatter had annihilated each other, which would have left that .0001% of matter to from the current universe. ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/212_fall2003.web.dir/tyler_freeman/bigbang.htm

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Edris:

6- Fireless Light.

“Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The metaphor of His Light is that of a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp inside a glass, the glass like a brilliant star, lit from a blessed tree, an olive, neither of the east nor of the west, its oil all but giving off light even if no fire touches it. Light upon Light. Allah guides to His Light whoever He wills and Allah makes metaphors for mankind and Allah has knowledge of all things.” (Qur’an, 24:35)

Just to remind you this verse was revealed on Muhammad pbuh more than 1400 years ago.

Where is the miracle? Doesn’t the Verse claim this is all a METAPHOR?

Edris:

7- The Weight of Clouds.

"It is He Who sends out the winds, bringing advance news of His mercy, so that when they have lifted up the heavy clouds, We dispatch them to a dead land and send down water to it, by means of which We bring forth all kinds of fruit… " (Qur’an 7:57)

“It is He Who shows you the lightning, striking fear and bringing hope; it is He Who heaps up the heavy clouds.” (Qur’an, 13:12)

The weight of clouds can reach quite astonishing proportions. For example, a cumulonimbus cloud, commonly known as the thunder cloud, can contain up to 300,000 tons of water.
The fact that a mass of 300,000 tons of water can remain aloft is truly amazing.

“…a modest-size cloud, one kilometer in diameter and 100 meters thick, has a mass equivalent to one 747 (i.e. Boeing 747)” straightdope.com/classics/a980313a.html

Also newton.dep.anl.gov/newto…eral/GEN012.HTM

This is mere reinterpretation of a common phrase to imply something miraculous. Many other cultures also know about “heavy” rainclouds.

This is what Aristotle wrote in his book, Meteorology, “Caecias covers the sky with HEAVY clouds,…”

If Aristotle’s Meteorology is not miraculous, why is the Quran miraculous for using the same phrase?

Edris:

8- The Proportion of Rain.

“It is He Who sends down water in due measure from the sky by which We bring a dead land back to life. That is how you too will be raised [from the dead].” (Qur’an 43:11)

This measured quantity in rain has again been discovered by modern research. It is estimated that in one second, approximately 16 million tons of water evaporates from the Earth. This figure amounts to 513 trillion tons of water in one year. This number is equal to the amount of rain that falls on the Earth in a year. Therefore, water continuously circulates in a balanced cycle, according to a “measure.” Life on Earth depends on this water cycle.

The proportion of rain does not merely apply to its quantity, but also to the speed of the falling raindrops. The speed of raindrops, regardless of their size, does not exceed a certain limit. Philipp Lenard, a German physicist who received the Nobel Prize in physics in 1905, found that the fall speed increased with drop diameter until a size of 4.5 mm (0.18 inch). For larger drops, however, the fall speed did not increase beyond 8 metres per second (26 ft/sec). (54. Keith C. Heidorn, Ph.D., “Philipp Lenard: Brushing the Teardrops from Rain,”) He attributed this to the changes in drop shape caused by the air flow as the drop size increased. The change in shape thus increased the air resistance of the drop and slowed its fall rate.

This is pure apologetics. The quantity of rain is not constant. One consequence of climate change is the change in average global rainfall. Thus, as global rainfall is not constant ne can only ‘estimate’ or ‘measure’ it after the fact.

The speed of raindrops has nothing to do with the verse. Everything as a terminal velocity.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Edris:

9- How The Process of Photosynthesis Begins in the Morning.

“And * by the night when it draws in, and by the dawn when it breathes in.” (Qur’an 81:17-18)

When plants undergo photosynthesis, they take in carbon dioxide, a harmful gas that human beings cannot consume, from the air, and give off oxygen instead. Oxygen, which we breathe and which is our basic source of life, is the main product of photosynthesis. Some 30% of the oxygen in the atmosphere is produced by plants on land, the remaining 70% being produced by plants and single-celled living things in the seas and oceans.

The productivity of photosynthesis is measured by the level of oxygen output. The greatest point is in the morning, when the Sun’s rays are most concentrated. At dawn, the leaves begin to sweat, and photosynthesis increases accordingly. In the afternoon, however, the opposite applies; in other words photosynthesis slows down, and respiration increases because as the temperature rises perspiration also increases. At night, as the temperature falls, perspiration declines and the plant rests.
The term “itha tanaffasa” in Surat at-Takwir, in reference to the morning hours, in other words, “when it breathes in,” is a metaphorical reference to breathing, respiration, or breathing deeply. This term particularly emphasises the way that the production of oxygen begins in the morning, and that the greatest levels of oxygen, essential for respiration, are given off at that time. The importance of the phenomena is also emphasised by the way that Allah swears upon it. The way that Allah indicates the action of photosynthesis, among the most important discoveries of the 20th century, in this verse, is another of the scientific miracles of the Qur’an.

Ok remember that this is just a small fraction of the scientific miracles of the Qur’an. And remember that this was revealed upon Muhammad pbuh more than 1400 years ago and that he was illiterate. Later God willing I’ll post more regarding this.
*
These ayats have nothing to do with plants but astronomical events like night and day, stars and planets. Read the preceding two ayats. Ayats 18:15-18 are talking about night and day.

Maulana: ay, I call to witness the stars, Running their course, (and) setting, And the night when it departs. And the morning when it brightens (or the breath of morning).

 

[Edris]

Dear Rodrigo,

Sub-Atomic Particles

What is the Arabic word for atom?

Let me give you a quick lesson in Arabic language, “khardal” means “Mustard” “Namlah” means “ant” and “Tharra or dharra” means “atom”. For your info the three words are used in the Qur’an. But in the verses I quoted the word used is “Tharra” which means “atom”.

Black Holes.

You mentioned twice that verse 77:8 is used out of context, and that it refers to the Judgment Day, which is half true, what you don’t know is that many signs that will happen on Judgment Day also happen in other times, but not in the same intensity as the Judgment Day. Like for example verse 55:37 “Then when the heaven is rent asunder, and it becomes rosy or red like red-oil, or red hide”. “As-Sama’” in arabic which means “heaven” can also mean anything that rises above you or shades you includes “clouds, moon, stars, planets, etc…”

If you have seen an image of a star going supernova it reflects the meaning of the verse, here are some pictures from Hubble’s site

http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/2004/09/images/a/formats/web.jpg Supernova

http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/1998/38/images/a/formats/web.jpg Nebula M1-67 around Star WR124

http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/1995/01/images/a/formats/web.jpg Hubble Probes the Complex History of a Dying Star

As for verse 81:16 it’s my mistake because I quoted a translation from Al-Qurtubi, but the hadith of the Prophet pbuh regarding this verse is that it’s the stars not the Planets. According to Sahih Muslim (456) and Al-Nisa’ey (157/2).

Position of the Stars.

You said “Mawaqi’” can mean “setting, falling or mansion”. Also another quick lesson in Arabic language “Mawaqi” is the plural for “Mawqi’” which means location, position or site. “Waqi’” means falling, from the verb “Waqa’a” which means “fell”.

Therefore, “Mawaqi” means “positions, locations, sites, places, etc…”

Proportion of Rain.

Apparently you didn’t read what I wrote, if you did you won’t be repeating what I already said “It is ESTIMATED that in one second, APPROXIMATELY……”.

As for the speed of the raindrop, read the last sentence “The change in shape thus increased the air resistance of the drop and slowed its fall rate.”. Either you haven’t read what I wrote, or you are ignorant in basic Physics.

The Process of Photosynthesis.

Again, you said the verses have nothing to do with plants but with astronomical events. Lets see the verses are talking about the sun, stars, mountains, camels, wild beasts, seas, souls, female (infants), heaven, hell, paradise, Al-Jawari Al-Konnas (previously explained as stars), then the two verses I quoted.

Lets see….So according to you mountains, camels, wild beasts, seas, souls, female (infants) are astronomical events!!!

Duality In Creation.

Again, If I hate something it would be repeating what’s already there. Did you read the verse? Or wait before that, for your knowledge hermaphrodite is not just in plants but also many animals are hermaphrodites.

“Glory be to Him Who created all the pairs: from what the earth produces and from themselves and from things unknown to them.”

“….by which We have brought forth diverse pairs of plants.” (Qur’an 20:53)

Where does it say that all plants or all animals or all humans or all things are created in pairs. He created all the pairs: FROM 1- what the earth produces 2- themselves 3- things unknown to them.

There are exceptions in the three, and the two verses do not generalize.

Secondly, you said plainly the matter and anti-matter example “is completely in error”. Then you quoted from the website “Our universe shows a lack of antimatter (which is a theoretical concept only)” also “The current hypothesis that explains……”, I also read through the website from which you are quoting and also came across this “A recent experiment at FermiLab showed that a CPT imbalance between certain particles and antiparticles does exist. This imbalance is however, not large enough to explain the lack of antimatter and the survival of matter after the Big Bang”.

My friend let me now give you a quick lesson in basic experimentation; you can’t jump from “Theoretical” “hypothesis” and “not large enough” to “the matter and anti-matter example is completely in error”.

I suggest when you have time instead of “ripping stuff” you go do some reading in basically all fields of science, you lack so much. I also recommend Arabic Pimsleur it’s good for starters.

Peace

 

[Ching_PBUH]

Edris:

1- Wind Pollination.

“And We send the winds fertilizing, then caused the water (rain) to descend from the sky, and We gave it to you to drink, and it is not you who are the owners of its stores” (Qur’an 15:22)

Of the 250000 species of flowering plants only 10% (25000) are wind-pollinated. This 10%, however, includes all the cereal plants such as wheat, rice and maize. It also includes most of the trees found in forests.

How is this ever a miracle? It is mentioned in countless other books, the Greeks the Persians, the Romans, the non-believers, the Pagans knew about it … well, not unless before the advent of Islam there was no wind to pollinate the flowering plants

2- Black Holes.

“And by the planets that move swiftly and hide themselves,” (Qur’an 81:16)

The verse talks about planets in Arabic described as “Al-Jawari” “Al-Konnas”. Those two words respectively mean “The Moving swiftly” and “The hidden”

“Then when the stars lose their lights;” (Qur’an 77:8)

The term “black hole” was first employed in 1969 by the American physicist John Wheeler. Previously, we imagined that we were able to see all the stars. However, it later emerged that there were stars in space whose light we were unable to perceive. Because, the light of these collapsed stars disappears. Light cannot escape from a black hole because it is such a high concentration of mass in a small space. The enormous gravitation captures even the fastest particles, i.e. the photons. For example, the final stage of a typical star, three times the mass of the Sun, ends after its burning out and its implosion as a black hole of only 20 kilometres in diameter! Black holes are “black,” i.e. veiled from direct observation. They nevertheless reveal themselves indirectly, by the tremendous suction which their gravitational force exerts on other heavenly bodies.

Amazing how the word “hide” can translate into holes, ernomous gravity, implosion …

3- The Position of the Stars.

“So I swear by the stars’ positions-and that is a mighty oath if you only knew.” (Qur’an 56:75-76)

Why would Allah (swt) swear by the stars’ positions and not by the star itself? Here’s the interesting fact. The light from the sun which is the closest star to us takes 8 minutes to reach us, so by the time you see the sun, it has already moved from that position 8 minutes ago. The stars you see at night are light years away from us, it takes the light from these stars many years to reach us, so when you look at a star at night, you’re actually looking at the position of the star and not at the star itself, the star has already moved from that position many years ago.

The question is, why would Allah need to swear at all? He swear to whom? To his slaves? Was he that desperate? Why stoop sooooo low as to swear to mere slaves?

 

[Edris]

Ching_PBUH:

The question is, why would Allah need to swear at all? He swear to whom? To his slaves? Was he that desperate? Why stoop sooooo low as to swear to mere slaves?

But He’d sacrifice His only son for their sake

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Edris:

Dear Rodrigo,

Sub-Atomic Particles

What is the Arabic word for atom?

Let me give you a quick lesson in Arabic language, “khardal” means “Mustard” “Namlah” means “ant” and “Tharra or dharra” means “atom”. For your info the three words are used in the Qur’an. But in the verses I quoted the word used is “Tharra” which means “atom”.

There was probably no 7th century Arabic word for atom. Since Arabic is such a rich language, there are more than one word for many things.

Anyway, the concept of sub-atomic particles was already known before Islam so why do you think dharrah is anything miraculous?

Edris:

Black Holes.

You mentioned twice that verse 77:8 is used out of context, and that it refers to the Judgment Day, which is half true, what you don’t know is that many signs that will happen on Judgment Day also happen in other times, but not in the same intensity as the Judgment Day.

How can 77:8 be half true? Does surah 77 refer to the Day of Judgment or not?

Edris:

Like for example verse 55:37 “Then when the heaven is rent asunder, and it becomes rosy or red like red-oil, or red hide”. “As-Sama’” in arabic which means “heaven” can also mean anything that rises above you or shades you includes “clouds, moon, stars, planets, etc…”

If you have seen an image of a star going supernova it reflects the meaning of the verse, here are some pictures from Hubble’s site

I’m afraid you got your science wrong. Please see this link to discover for yourself that the Cat’s Eye Nebula is BLUE-GREEN, not RED.

faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=227570#227570

Edris:

As for verse 81:16 it’s my mistake because I quoted a translation from Al-Qurtubi, but the hadith of the Prophet pbuh regarding this verse is that it’s the stars not the Planets. According to Sahih Muslim (456) and Al-Nisa’ey (157/2).

Either way, you’re debunked.

Edris:

Position of the Stars.

You said “Mawaqi’” can mean “setting, falling or mansion”. Also another quick lesson in Arabic language “Mawaqi” is the plural for “Mawqi’” which means location, position or site. “Waqi’” means falling, from the verb “Waqa’a” which means “fell”.

Therefore, “Mawaqi” means “positions, locations, sites, places, etc…”

Actually it was Dr Mohsin Khan who translated Mawaqi as setting or the mansions.

Sheikh Gibril Haddad – Mawaqi = orbit.

This is Muhammad Asad’s explanation of Mawaqi.
75. * NAY, I call to witness the coming-down in parts [of this Quran] [Or: “the setting [or “orbiting”] of the stars”. The term mawqi (of which mawaqie is the plural) denotes the “time [or “place” or “manner”] at which something comes down”. Although many of the commentators think that the phrase mawaqi an-nujum relates to the break-up of the stars at the Last Hour, Ibn Abbas, lkrimah and As-Suddi were definitely of the opinion, strongly supported by the subsequent verses, that this phrase refers to the step-by-step revelation - or “coming-down in parts (nujum )” - of the Quran (cf. Tabari and lbn Kathir; see also note on 53:1). By “calling to witness” the gradual manner of its revelation, the Quran points implicitly to the astounding fact that it has remained free of all inconsistencies and inner contradictions (cf. 4:82 and the corresponding note) despite all the dramatic changes in the Prophet’s life during the twenty-three years of the “unfolding” of the divine writ: and this explains, too, the subsequent parenthetic clause (verse 76).] -
word.nipl.net/x/quiki/quran/asad/56.al-waqi%60ah.that_which_is_coming.html
The point is… there are many definitions of Mawaqi but you only pick the one that suits your case.

Edris:

Proportion of Rain.

Apparently you didn’t read what I wrote, if you did you won’t be repeating what I already said “It is ESTIMATED that in one second, APPROXIMATELY……”.

As for the speed of the raindrop, read the last sentence “The change in shape thus increased the air resistance of the drop and slowed its fall rate.”. Either you haven’t read what I wrote, or you are ignorant in basic Physics.

My basic physics tells me that there is a terminal velocity to all things, including raindrops. There is nothing miraculous about that. How do you reconcile ‘due measurement’ with a terminal velocity that applies to everything? Do you think air resistance only applies to raindrops and nothing else?

The point you missed is that there is no ‘due measure’ to rain as the average global rainfall changes from year to year, from era to era, due to climate change. There is no approximate about it.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Edris:

The Process of Photosynthesis.

Again, you said the verses have nothing to do with plants but with astronomical events. Lets see the verses are talking about the sun, stars, mountains, camels, wild beasts, seas, souls, female (infants), heaven, hell, paradise, Al-Jawari Al-Konnas (previously explained as stars), then the two verses I quoted.

Lets see….So according to you mountains, camels, wild beasts, seas, souls, female (infants) are astronomical events!!!

That’s right. The verse says, Say, I call to witness the stars, Running their course, (and) setting, And the night when it departs. And the morning when it brightens (or the breath of morning).

There is nothing here about plants – stars, yes, mountain yes, wild beasts, but plants? No.

Edris:

Duality In Creation.

Again, If I hate something it would be repeating what’s already there. Did you read the verse? Or wait before that, for your knowledge hermaphrodite is not just in plants but also many animals are hermaphrodites.

“Glory be to Him Who created all the pairs: from what the earth produces and from themselves and from things unknown to them.”

“….by which We have brought forth diverse pairs of plants.” (Qur’an 20:53)

Where does it say that all plants or all animals or all humans or all things are created in pairs. He created all the pairs: FROM 1- what the earth produces 2- themselves 3- things unknown to them.

There are exceptions in the three, and the two verses do not generalize.

Did you or did you not bring up the example of plants as a ‘pair’? So, if you did, then why can’t I point out that plants are mostly hermaphrodites?

Edris:

Secondly, you said plainly the matter and anti-matter example “is completely in error”. Then you quoted from the website “Our universe shows a lack of antimatter (which is a theoretical concept only)” also “The current hypothesis that explains……”, I also read through the website from which you are quoting and also came across this “A recent experiment at FermiLab showed that a CPT imbalance between certain particles and antiparticles does exist. This imbalance is however, not large enough to explain the lack of antimatter and the survival of matter after the Big Bang”.

That’s why the current hypothesis is the best – our Universe is a matter universe – anti-matter are only a theoretical concept which some scientists have been able to recreate for a very short time in the lab. Meaning you won’t find antimatter in OUR universe.

Edris:

My friend let me now give you a quick lesson in basic experimentation; you can’t jump from “Theoretical” “hypothesis” and “not large enough” to “the matter and anti-matter example is completely in error”.

All practical science is rooted in theory. A hypothesis is a scientific idea that is to be tested by experiments. So, one can definitely jump from the theoretical to hypothesis.

Read the FermiLab reference – do you even understand it? Puh leese – even that reference says ‘lack of antimatter’ and ‘survival of matter after the Big Bang’. How do you explain why there is a ‘lack of antimatter’ in our universe?

Edris:

I suggest when you have time instead of “ripping stuff” you go do some reading in basically all fields of science, you lack so much. I also recommend Arabic Pimsleur it’s good for starters.

I suggest you start by reading actual science books and not dawaganda. If you want to use the matter anti-matter explanation, at least read about the subject because we have NO antimatter in our universe. There was a great imbalance between matter and anti-matter at the start of the Big Bang and within one second all the anti-matter was destroyed. You can check this out.