Scientific study of demons/exorisms

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I’ve went through Amorth’s two books that are considered to be the authorities on exorcism; and I’ve read some other less-known books, which are written by Catholic scholars as well. The common thing among all of them was that the only evidence relied on eyewitness accounts. In today’s age of mass media, and because of the doubt in the the spiritual world in today’s materialism school of thought, why haven’t there been videotaped or audio recorded accounts of genuine exorcisms? Surely if an average person were to suddenly speak in ancient languages that only scholars would know, then this would be proof of a spiritual world in the scientific sense. Why not record these incidents?
 
Lava58 said:
I’ve went through Amorth’s two books that are considered to be the authorities on exorcism; and I’ve read some other less-known books, which are written by Catholic scholars as well. The common thing among all of them was that the only evidence relied on eyewitness accounts. In today’s age of mass media, and because of the doubt in the the spiritual world in today’s materialism school of thought, why haven’t there been videotaped or audio recorded accounts of genuine exorcisms? Surely if an average person were to suddenly speak in ancient languages that only scholars would know, then this would be proof of a spiritual world in the scientific sense. Why not record these incidents?
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Hi, this is an interesting topic. Three words/phrases stood out. Evidence, materialism, and spiritual world.

Scott Hahn was speaking with Fr Groeshel’s Sunday night show on the matter of Faith. He explained the Science / Supernatural topic well, IMO. Faith is what it is, Faith. One who has Faith in God and His revealed Truth needs not prove to him or herself the existence of the Supernatural.

Those without Faith can’t use scientific means to prove or disprove the Supernatural.

As far as recording exorcisms for public examination, I’m not sure an absence of audio or images would prove Satan wasn’t in the room. Even if the possessed were to speak that which could be caught on tape, it would not prove or disprove if it was Satan’s voice or words.

So that leaves us with Faith. Science is only as failsafe as is human intelligence. We can only be certain that the Supernatural exists, and only through Faith.

The Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano can be proven to be human tissue, but only Faith convinces us we are beholding the Real Presence.

JMO 🙂
 
The World Book has a picture in it of a room full of New Age spiritists levitating. This stuff is available, to some extent. I bet that respecting the right to privacy of the possessed is part of the reason these events aren’t released in the mediums you’re suggesting.
 
Quoting Lief Erikson
I bet that respecting the right to privacy of the possessed is part of the reason these events aren’t released in the mediums you’re suggesting.
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…👍 …
 
Lava58 said:
I’ve went through Amorth’s two books that are considered to be the authorities on exorcism; and I’ve read some other less-known books, which are written by Catholic scholars as well. The common thing among all of them was that the only evidence relied on eyewitness accounts. In today’s age of mass media, and because of the doubt in the the spiritual world in today’s materialism school of thought, why haven’t there been videotaped or audio recorded accounts of genuine exorcisms? Surely if an average person were to suddenly speak in ancient languages that only scholars would know, then this would be proof of a spiritual world in the scientific sense. Why not record these incidents?
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I know of one recorded version - but it was recorded in a priest’s diary. That account is relayed in the book Possessed: the True Story of an Exorcism by Thomas B. Allen.

I would think exorcisms are generally not video or audio taped to protect the privacy of those involved. If they are taped, I highly doubt they would be released for public consumption.
 
Remember, “Blessed are those who do not see and yet believe.” We must have faith. And faith, as well as the Chuch tells us that these things exist.
Also, Im sure most exorcisms are recorded, but they are not put out for the public to listen to. Probably due to privacy as others have stated, but also the serious matter it is involved with. God Bless.
Jacob :signofcross:
 
Lava58
In today’s age of mass media, and because of the doubt in the the spiritual world in today’s materialism school of thought, why haven’t there been videotaped or audio recorded accounts of genuine exorcisms?
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Because the exorcism would probably fail, if the exorcist gave into human desires to record such events.

First off, to do such a thing is to place doubt that the demonic possession is real, which of course is exactly what the demon would like us to believe. Second, the priest performing the exorcism, avoids setting an atmosphere of entertainment or curiosity. Any human vices are used against those in the room, by the demon.

From what I remember, in Malachi Martin’s “Hostage to the Devil,” one of the cases, a Jewish psychiatrist who was opposed to the exorcism being performed on his patient, and he demanded that he be allowed to sit in the room to observe. The priest, after refusing finally gave in and that was the mistake. The demon, immediately turned to the psychiatrist and began asking him questions. Even though the condition established with the psychiatrist to be in the room was that he promised to remain silent, he went ahead and answered the demon. The demon began to argue with the psychiatrist about his answers and eventually started to reveal personal information about the psychiatrist and about his mother. The psychiatrist literally had a nervous break down in the room, at which point the demon turned and physically attacked the priest, putting him in the hospital for several days.

The priest knew his mistake in allowing his own pride to take over, by allowing some one in the room(the doctor), who should not have been there. The priest eventually returned to complete the exorcism, as he knew it should’ve been done to begin with. He was successful.

The same would be true if audio equipment were allowed in.

Jim
 
Jim makes a good point.

The example illustrates why priests go to Confession before performing an exorcism. The demons know the unconfessed sins of anyone present and will point them out.

It’s also an example of how demons will exploit someone’s pride and disobedience.
 
Name escapes me right now, but there was a woman who wrote a book on possession, specifically the story of Anneliese Michel, and it was based on the “science” behind possession as well as mystical experiences of God.

I certainly don’t believe that matters of faith can be explained away by science, but science is the study of the created world, and true science will always prove that God was right all along.
 
Why would there be any want for such?

“…lead me not into temptation, but deliver me from evil.”

It sounds like a temptation I would rather avoid.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
From what I remember, in Malachi Martin’s “Hostage to the Devil,” one of the cases, a Jewish psychiatrist who was opposed to the exorcism being performed on his patient, and he demanded that he be allowed to sit in the room to observe. The priest, after refusing finally gave in and that was the mistake.

Jim
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I would like to add to your thought.
I just finished writing a term paper on this topic for an abnormal psychology class. My interest in this was peaked when the textbook tossed in the the idea that Catholic exorcisms are debatable. As the OP states - there is little to nothing out there in the way of empirical research. The very best I could find was a study done by 3 Italian men from the University of Rome with the aid of Fr. Amorth. The results were not exactly what I hoped for.
Anyway I would like to share a snippet from my paper here.
Code: 
   The results of the exorcism are determined in great part by the victim’s willingness to be freed of possession as well as the faith and strength of the exorcist. 
   One other important instruction given in the Rite of Exorcism is that the appointed exorcist should never put himself between the person and the possessing spirit; that is, he must resolve to never become a catalyst or pivot between the evil spirit and God (Amorth, 1999).  He must always remember that he is a representative for Jesus Christ and the Church and to never ask questions of the evil spirit.  Many priests have made this mistake and been physically and spiritually assaulted by the possessed person (Martin, 2007).
 
Lava58 said:
Why not record these incidents?
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From what I can see - the closest thing the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders has for demonic possesion is Dissociative Trance Disorder.
It falls in Appendix B of the Manual. That means it requires further study before it can be classified as valid.
It is my opinion that it will always fall outside of being listed as a validated disorder.
And that is OK with me. When did the Church ever need to have demonic possession and Catholic exorcisms validated by the American Psychiatric Association or the World Health Organization? The WHO also has a listing for Dissociative Trance Dissorder.
 
I have never heard of such a recording. But what if one of your family members was possessed? Say your daughter. Would you let a cameraman come in to record the process, which could go out on the internet through the whole world? I would think generally the person’s family would veto the idea. Recording it for other reasons too seems inappropriate, since it deals with intimate details of a person’s spiritual life.
 
I have also read books on this subject. Don’t have the titles or authors in front of me. But I believe they were authentically Catholic. Although I can’t say that I’ve come across any exorcisms on video or audio, legitimate ones anyway, I lean towards the belief that these rites aren’t normally taped for the public. If I or anyone I knew, were involved in an exorcism, why would we want a camera there anyway?

Everything you’ve all posted above is very note worthy.
 
Beautiful
Code: 
  The results of the exorcism are determined in great part by the victim’s willingness to be freed of possession as well as the faith and strength of the exorcist. 
   One other important instruction given in the Rite of Exorcism is that the appointed exorcist should never put himself between the person and the possessing spirit; that is, he must resolve to never become a catalyst or pivot between the evil spirit and God (Amorth, 1999).  He must always remember that he is a representative for Jesus Christ and the Church and to never ask questions of the evil spirit.  Many priests have made this mistake and been physically and spiritually assaulted by the possessed person (Martin, 2007).
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Exactly!

Also, because of this instruction that exorcist must follow, priest who find themselves as exorcist priest, are generally not intellectually brilliant. Intellectuals, often lack the humility that is necessary and will be too tempted with their desire to obtain information from the demon. They will get into asking questions and debating. The demon, being more powerful than men, will defeat the exorcist. As a result, the exorcist priest are men who are humble and holy. Their pride never gets in the way of their task, and the demon is unable to over come them.

Humility is a virtue in which hell despises. For it is the sin of pride that Eve was tempted by the demon, and it is the sin of pride, that most of us fall into sin.

Jim
 
Lava58 said:
I’ve went through Amorth’s two books that are considered to be the authorities on exorcism; and I’ve read some other less-known books, which are written by Catholic scholars as well. The common thing among all of them was that the only evidence relied on eyewitness accounts. In today’s age of mass media, and because of the doubt in the the spiritual world in today’s materialism school of thought, why haven’t there been videotaped or audio recorded accounts of genuine exorcisms? Surely if an average person were to suddenly speak in ancient languages that only scholars would know, then this would be proof of a spiritual world in the scientific sense. Why not record these incidents?
Click to expand...
Looking for proof of exorcism through media documentation could be like attempting to traverse a slippery slope. Unless you are doing research for a paper or book I would not delve too deeply into records of the occult. As the wrath and anger of God are not for others to view, possibly the releasing of evil by the power of God are not to be viewed. There are other avenues to strengthen arguments for or against the existence of the spiritual world. Not that we fear the dark side, yet try not to give it power or glory. By devoting energy to this topic you may be doing just that, unwittingly. The father of lies and deception works in an insidious manner. The slightest weakness or crack in the fortress of faith may provide a way in. Just some friendly advice.
 
Alverno said:
Looking for proof of exorcism through media documentation could be like attempting to traverse a slippery slope. Unless you are doing research for a paper or book I would not delve too deeply into records of the occult. As the wrath and anger of God are not for others to view, possibly the releasing of evil by the power of God are not to be viewed. There are other avenues to strengthen arguments for or against the existence of the spiritual world. Not that we fear the dark side, yet try not to give it power or glory. By devoting energy to this topic you may be doing just that, unwittingly. The father of lies and deception works in an insidious manner. The slightest weakness or crack in the fortress of faith may provide a way in. Just some friendly advice.
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I agree with you. Writing my term paper on the validity of Catholic exorcism was an immediate response and need I felt to defend the Catholic Church. This desire turned into a need to defend what I know and believe compared to what I read in my secular textbook. Interestingly - I did not delve any further than I needed to - and surprisingly it wasn’t far. Imitating the spirit and wisdom of the Church - I never mentioned specific details, oddities and abnormal behavior associated with demonic possession.
Even writing a research paper or book on the topic requires great prudence.
 
So then would pictures in the book titled The Demonologist, which is about Ed and Lorraine, be dangerous to show the public? On their web page then claim to have a photo of a demon. Now, if this was documented in video rather than a still, the reader could get a better grasp of the reality of the spiritual world. Eyewitness accounts, stills, audio, and video are all media; and each one of these mediums try to portray the best representation of the the demon/exorcism. Picking the video over the others is simply a matter of using the best documentation. As for the victims’ privacy, it should be up to them if they want the video to be shown to the public.
 
Lava58 said:
So then would pictures in the book titled The Demonologist, which is about Ed and Lorraine, be dangerous to show the public? On their web page then claim to have a photo of a demon. Now, if this was documented in video rather than a still, the reader could get a better grasp of the reality of the spiritual world. Eyewitness accounts, stills, audio, and video are all media; and each one of these mediums try to portray the best representation of the the demon/exorcism. Picking the video over the others is simply a matter of using the best documentation. As for the victims’ privacy, it should be up to them if they want the video to be shown to the public.
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Hate to burst your bubble on Ed and Lorraine Warren, but they are NOT a good source on demonology. They have some wacko theories and some of the things they advocate are just wrong. I don’t doubt that they encountered demons, but some of the things they teach are either dangerous or just wrong. Unfortunately a lot of ghost hunting shows, like Paranormal State, think they are an authority and go along with their teachings.
 
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