Scientists debunk 'junk DNA' theory!

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It is not certain that the proportion of junk to useful DNA is accurately known. “rather more” is a gross understatement when millions are concerned.
If you accept the “80% useful” figure, then you also accept the “20% junk” figure.
It is begging the question to assert that evolution can make a genome but as that topic is banned the alternative is to explain why you think Design is an unsatisfactory explanation
I don’t in this particular case. A designer could make a genome with a lot of junk or a little junk. My objections to a designer are down to a lack of evidence for the existence of a designer and a lack of any evidence of the designer actually moving base pairs around to make specific bits of DNA.

rossum
 
According to that argument the immense complexity of the DNA information system counts for precisely nothing because the blind Goddess is infinitely powerful and capable of producing the most astounding miracles without the slightest awareness of what she is doing! In other words the omnipotence of atomic energy is the supreme creative force that is the ultimate explanation of all truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love…
Sorry. I have no idea what point you just made.
 
Sorry. I have no idea what point you just made.
A point perhaps unintended, if I may make so bold as to comment. Superficially, it’s the same point that others have advanced in many other threads - that if we can’t invest belief in some ‘higher’ conscious entity who designed the universe; and if none of our experiences last forever in the form of memories in the afterlife (assuming we are even supposed to have these when we lack a brain to store them); then nothing we do, see or make means anything or has any purpose, and any meaning or purpose we may infuse into our experiences is nothing but illusion. Glass-half-full, huh? :rolleyes:

Of course, the supreme irony is lost in this argument - it doesn’t matter that our human desires and purposes, that the meaning we attach to objects, words and experiences, don’t actually have any significance on a cosmic scale. True humility consists in knowing that what we value is valued by us alone, and in being able to appreciate our lives just for themselves.
 
Indeed. I don’t think that you could have put it more succinctly. What does it matter in the grand scheme of things? Life is a wonderful thing - what more could one need?
 
If you accept the “80% useful” figure, then you also accept the “20% junk” figure.

I don’t in this particular case. A designer could make a genome with a lot of junk or a little junk. My objections to a designer are down to a lack of evidence for the existence of a designer and a lack of any evidence of the designer actually moving base pairs around to make specific bits of DNA.

rossum
A piano has keys that are not used in many melodies, but are available when called upon.
 
Thank you, Rob, for your support. Those who are determined to regard existence as purposeless reject all evidence for Design on principle because it doesn’t fit into their scheme of things: we are supposedly freaks of nature which have somehow succeeded in realising we are irrational!

“Something is rotten in the state of Denmark!” 😉
They exclude any discussion of possible design from all theories on origins, and then scream from the mountaintops that they are being “neutral”. In other words, they think we can be intimidated into silence,b/c we are simple rubes. I don’t think so!!! 😃
 
They exclude any discussion of possible design from all theories on origins, and then scream from the mountaintops that they are being “neutral”. In other words, they think we can be intimidated into silence,b/c we are simple rubes. I don’t think so!!! 😃
It has worked for a while.
 
A piano has keys that are not used in many melodies, but are available when called upon.
Well, I’ll be darned. All scientists have to do is take out all the “junk”; then their task of creating a more perfect life form should be tremendously simplified! 😉 Rob
 
A point perhaps unintended, if I may make so bold as to comment. Superficially, it’s the same point that others have advanced in many other threads - that if we can’t invest belief in some ‘higher’ conscious entity who designed the universe; and if none of our experiences last forever in the form of memories in the afterlife (assuming we are even supposed to have these when we lack a brain to store them); then nothing we do, see or make means anything or has any purpose, and any meaning or purpose we may infuse into our experiences is nothing but illusion. Glass-half-full, huh?
The onus is on you to explain how values and purposes are derived from that which is valueless and purposeless. You agree that values are subjective. Why should purposes be any different?The ideas exist in your mind but they don’t correspond to external reality - which is, in your opinion, composed solely of physical objects.
Of course, the supreme irony is lost in this argument - it doesn’t matter that our human desires and purposes, that the meaning we attach to objects, words and experiences, don’t actually have any significance on a cosmic scale. True humility consists in knowing that what we value is valued by us alone, and in being able to appreciate our lives just for themselves.
The supreme irony consists in pretending value and purpose have any significance beyond making materialists satisfied with their materialism! You are trying to have the best of both worlds instead of accepting the full implications of rejecting immaterial reality.
 
Very few, apart for a better understanding of the human genome. All that has changed is that the proportion of junk to useful DNA is now more accurately known. There is still 20% junk in or genome, and rather more switches than previously realised. Both junk and switches have been known about for some time.

The greater or lesser proportion of junk is not particularly significant. Either evolution or a designer can make a genome with more or less junk in it. Puffer fish have very little junk, while some amoebae have genomes ten times the size of ours, with a presumably large proportion of junk.

I suspect that it is not as important as you probably think it is.

rossum
That’s hilarious. You are making a prediction, not stating a fact.

abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s898887.htm

Peace,
Ed
 
It is not certain that the proportion of junk to useful DNA is accurately known. “rather more” is a gross understatement when millions are concerned.
80% has been confirmed; 20% hasn’t.
It is begging the question to assert that evolution can make a genome but as that topic is banned the alternative is to explain why you think Design is an unsatisfactory explanation
I don’t in this particular case. A designer could make a genome with a lot of junk or a little junk. My objections to a designer are down to a lack of evidence for the existence of a designer and a lack of any evidence of the designer actually moving base pairs around to make specific bits of DNA.

All types of design imply the existence of intangible minds which are independent of the body for everyone except devotees of the hopelessly inadequate theory of materialism.

The crude notion of a designer moving base pairs is a distortion of a rational** information system**. Only materialists who stake everything on their five sense organs - rejecting the reality of spiritual development - entertain the infantile fantasy that DNA is produced by Chance.
 
**High-Level Defectors from Evolutionary Theory Leave a Top Darwin Defender Feeling “Disturbed”

**He promises to read and review Nagel’s book (from Oxford U. Press), noted here earlier by John West, a brief description of which Coyne already finds “disturbing.” You may recall Nagel’s warm approbation of intelligent-design theorists (though he himself is not an ID advocate):
I believe the defenders of intelligent design deserve our gratitude for challenging a scientific world view that owes some of the passion displayed by its adherents precisely to the fact that it is thought to liberate us from religion. That world view is ripe for displacement…
 
They exclude any discussion of possible design from all theories on origins, and then scream from the mountaintops that they are being “neutral”. In other words, they think we can be intimidated into silence,b/c we are simple rubes. I don’t think so!!! 😃
False. Science shows design to be present in the origin of many things: flint arrowheads, crime scenes, GM organisms and others. All ID has to do is to attain the same scientific standards as archaeology, forensic science and genetics.

Unfortunately, ID seems not to be doing the required drudge work in the lab. Which pieces of DNA are designed? How do we know this? When were they designed? How were the correct base pairs moved into position? Can we show this process happening now?

The Discovery Institute has a laboratory. Where are the ID results from that lab? Notice that the results on junk DNA didn’t come from an ID lab, but from standard science labs. (So much for the “suppress all pro-ID results in science” meme as well.)

rossum
 
Such as how in the world consciousness could develop from a random mingling of atoms. That it could happen seems preposterous on the surface, and the more one thinks about it, it appears even more ridiculous. To think that a thousand million billion synapses could fire in our brains in a second, and that there is a naturalistic explanation for it strains credulity. 😊 Rob
 
False. Science shows design to be present in the origin of many things: flint arrowheads, crime scenes, GM organisms and others. All ID has to do is to attain the same scientific standards as archaeology, forensic science and genetics.

Unfortunately, ID seems not to be doing the required drudge work in the lab. Which pieces of DNA are designed? How do we know this? When were they designed? How were the correct base pairs moved into position? Can we show this process happening now?

The Discovery Institute has a laboratory. Where are the ID results from that lab? Notice that the results on junk DNA didn’t come from an ID lab, but from standard science labs. (So much for the “suppress all pro-ID results in science” meme as well.)

rossum
It’s called inductive logic, Rossum. If you can’t see God in the miracle of life, I believe that it’s b/c you refuse to see it. All scientists can do is work with what already exists. If naturalism is true, life should be able to be reduced to mathematical equations. It’s perplexing that scientists don’t seem to be able to reconstruct the life scenario which they can observe right in front of themselves. :cool: Blessings, Rob
 
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