Scientists reveal Jewish history's forgotten Turkish roots

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From last Tuesday’s* Independent*:
New research suggests that the majority of the world’s modern Jewish population is descended mainly from people from ancient Turkey, rather than predominantly from elsewhere in the Middle East.
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The new research suggests that most of the Jewish population of northern and eastern Europe – normally known as Ashkenazic Jews – are the descendants of Greeks, Iranians and others who colonized what is now northern Turkey more than 2000 years ago and were then converted to Judaism, probably in the first few centuries AD by Jews from Persia. At that stage, the Persian Empire was home to the world’s largest Jewish communities.
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According to research carried out by the geneticist, Dr Eran Elhaik of the University of Sheffield, over 90 per cent of Ashkenazic ancestors come from that converted partially Greek-originating ancient community in north-east Turkey.
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His research is based on genetic, historical and place-name evidence. For his geographic genetic research, Dr Elhaik used a Geographic Population Structure computer modelling system to convert Ashkenazic Jewish DNA data into geographical information.
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Dr Elhaik, an Israeli-born geneticist who gained his doctorate in molecular evolution from the University of Houston, believes that three still-surviving Turkish villages – Iskenaz, Eskenaz and Ashanaz – on the western part of an ancient Silk Road route were part of the original Ashkenazic homeland. He believes that the word Ashkenaz originally comes from Ashguza - the ancient Assyrian and Babylonian name for the Iron Age Eurasian steppeland people, the Scythians.
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independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/scientists-reveal-jewish-historys-forgotten-turkish-roots-a6992076.html
 
I do wonder why this post is in Non-Catholic Religions rather than World News, except, of course that it’s a new article about an old (in World News terms) study. The Independent does seem to have something ‘about’ Jews at the moment, but that’s by-the-by.

Well, ok, yes, I’m Jewish, and my head fills with the theme from ‘Exodus’:

This land is mine.
God gave this land to me.
This brave and ancient land to me.
And when the morning sun.
Reveals her hills and plains.

Every time she lands at Fiumicino, or Malpenso, or Marco Polo, or Verona, or Pisa . . . .

In other words, I’m not an Israeli, and I can understand why all this Khazar stuff might appear in a ‘political’ forum but why in a religious forum? Even if the hypothesis were true, what’s a blue-eyed, blonde, Italian/German Jew supposed to do about it ‘religiously’?

Meanwhile, anybody who is interested on more perspective on this particular paper might find it useful to consult:

Jewish People’s Ultimate Treasure Hunt

and

Terra Incognita: The return of the Khazar myth

For why it’s all a bit complicated.
 
Kaninchen said:
I do wonder why this post is in Non-Catholic Religions rather than World News, except, of course that it’s a new article about an old (in World News terms) study. The Independent does seem to have something ‘about’ Jews at the moment, but that’s by-the-by.

Well, ok, yes, I’m Jewish, and my head fills with the theme from ‘Exodus’:

This land is mine.
God gave this land to me.
This brave and ancient land to me.
And when the morning sun.
Reveals her hills and plains.

Every time she lands at Fiumicino, or Malpenso, or Marco Polo, or Verona, or Pisa . . . .

In other words, I’m not an Israeli, and I can understand why all this Khazar stuff might appear in a ‘political’ forum but why in a religious forum? Even if the hypothesis were true, what’s a blue-eyed, blonde, Italian/German Jew supposed to do about it ‘religiously’?

Meanwhile, anybody who is interested on more perspective on this particular paper might find it useful to consult:

Jewish People’s Ultimate Treasure Hunt

and

Terra Incognita: The return of the Khazar myth

For why it’s all a bit complicated.
Click to expand...
I remember buying a used book, called Iron Curtain Over America – it was written in the early '50s, and I bought it with a bunch of other historical books about the era from the interwar years thru the early postwar.

Yeesh.:eek: Turns out to be a book on how “Judaized Khazars” (not “real” Jews)* are taking over — or have already taken over — the world thru Communism. Along with the Jesuits and Masons, I suspect.

*I think this theory is used so that they can claim to NOT be anti-Semitic, on account of modern Jews not “really” being Semites, but Turks. 🤷

Anyway — I’m getting rid of the book. I have a friend in Toronto who teaches a course in propaganda at Centennial. I might send it to him, otherwise I’ll just dispose of it.
 
Kaninchen said:
Well, ok, yes, I’m Jewish, and my head fills with the theme from ‘Exodus’:

This land is mine.
God gave this land to me.
This brave and ancient land to me.
And when the morning sun.
Reveals her hills and plains.
Click to expand...
By the way, I love that song. When I was a kid, I thought it was the Israeli anthem. When I found out it wasn’t then I thought it *should *be.

Then I heard HaTikvah…
 
Kaninchen said:
I do wonder why this post is in Non-Catholic Religions rather than World News, except, of course that it’s a new article about an old (in World News terms) study. The Independent does seem to have something ‘about’ Jews at the moment, but that’s by-the-by.

Well, ok, yes, I’m Jewish, and my head fills with the theme from ‘Exodus’:

This land is mine.
God gave this land to me.
This brave and ancient land to me.
And when the morning sun.
Reveals her hills and plains.

Every time she lands at Fiumicino, or Malpenso, or Marco Polo, or Verona, or Pisa . . . .

In other words, I’m not an Israeli, and I can understand why all this Khazar stuff might appear in a ‘political’ forum but why in a religious forum? Even if the hypothesis were true, what’s a blue-eyed, blonde, Italian/German Jew supposed to do about it ‘religiously’?

Meanwhile, anybody who is interested on more perspective on this particular paper might find it useful to consult:

Jewish People’s Ultimate Treasure Hunt

and

Terra Incognita: The return of the Khazar myth

For why it’s all a bit complicated.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the 2nd link. I was wondering why this sounded familiar. Koestler’s The Thirteenth Tribe, of course.
 
Off topic, but Koestler’s best book is on the subject of creativity, called The Act of Creation. It’s very much worth the time and effort to acquire a copy, for those interested in the subject. It might even be the best book on creativity I know of.

As far as the topic of the thread goes, I recommend Shlomo Sand’s Invention of the Jewish People. It deals with the histories of most of the various Jewish ethnicities, and he’s very human and level-headed in his peaceful and practical attitude toward the Palestinians, who are themselves ethnically Jewish. There’s of course been a concerted effort from some quarters to confound and obfuscate the issue as much as possible, apparently to discourage people from actually his work themselves. That’s very common.
 
Thorolfr said:
From last Tuesday’s* Independent*:

independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/scientists-reveal-jewish-historys-forgotten-turkish-roots-a6992076.html
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The only credible hypothesis that Ashkenazim aren’t fully Jewish is the one where many Jewish men (from what is now Israel and Palestine) settled around the Mediterranean Sea during the Roman Empire taking local wives and converting them to Judaism. The vast majority of Ashkenazim Y DNA is Levantine in origin and the Y DNA that is not could quite easily be from the days of the Roman Empire when Judaism had many converts. Substantial chunks of Ashkenazim DNA do not appear to be Levantine in origin, but how much is still very much up for debate.
 
John_Lazarus said:
I remember buying a used book, called Iron Curtain Over America – it was written in the early '50s, and I bought it with a bunch of other historical books about the era from the interwar years thru the early postwar.

Yeesh.:eek: Turns out to be a book on how “Judaized Khazars” (not “real” Jews)* are taking over — or have already taken over — the world thru Communism. Along with the Jesuits and Masons, I suspect.

*I think this theory is used so that they can claim to NOT be anti-Semitic, on account of modern Jews not “really” being Semites, but Turks. 🤷

Anyway — I’m getting rid of the book. I have a friend in Toronto who teaches a course in propaganda at Centennial. I might send it to him, otherwise I’ll just dispose of it.
Click to expand...
You do know that Pope Francis, S.J. is a shapeshifting reptilian who collaborates with the Jews and Masons to… I give up, too funny!:rolleyes:

Seriously who believes any of that?
 
John_Lazarus said:
Yeesh.:eek: Turns out to be a book on how “Judaized Khazars” (not “real” Jews)* are taking over — or have already taken over — the world thru Communism. Along with the Jesuits and Masons, I suspect.
Click to expand...
The folks at jewsarejusttoonaughtyforwordsdotcom seem happy to hate us for being Jewish and for not being Jewish. 😃
 
Upgrade25 said:
Who spends time spewing that trash anyways?
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I should add that, of course, if there’s enough noise around the idea that Jews are not really Jews then the various anti-Israel political groups can argue that it’s not a Jewish homeland.
 
Kaninchen said:
I should add that, of course, if there’s enough noise around the idea that Jews are not really Jews then the various anti-Israel political groups can argue that it’s not a Jewish homeland.
Click to expand...
I have no words.
 
Had my DNA done and found out I have Jewish ancestry. Was surprised to see that.
 
A little disappointing.
I was hoping for something more along the lines of showing how ancient Jewish theological ideas may be linked to the ancient ideas of Turkey.

Genetics are all that interesting of a theological question for me.
 
Upgrade25 said:
You do know that Pope Francis, S.J. **[Jesuit] **is a shapeshifting reptilian who collaborates with the **Jews **and Masons to… I give up, too funny!:rolleyes:

Seriously who believes any of that?
Click to expand...
Why do you think Catholic schoolkids put JMJ at the top of their exercise books? :hmmm:
 
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