Scottish Archbishop bans kneeling during communion

[At_Trent]

The Archbishop states his reasons well, but the Church still says we have a choice doesn’t she ?

 

[fred_conty]

I for one would like to know what is the current official direction from the church.

 

[Elizium23]

The text regarding standing is interesting in particular. His Grace does not forbid kneeling, but says “it is also from the standing position that we should make our sign of reverence…” What does this mean? It implies that some additional sign should be made while we are standing. What sign is that? Kneeling was a sign of reverence itself. Standing is a sign of respect, under some circumstances, but respect is not reverence.

In the United States, the USCCB has determined that a bow of the head should be the appropriate sign of reverence when approaching for Holy Communion. Other episcopal conferences have decided similar things. Consult your localized GIRM for more information.

 

[fred_conty]

In the United States, the USCCB has determined that a bow of the head should be the appropriate sign of reverence when approaching for Holy Communion. Other episcopal conferences have decided similar things. Consult your localized GIRM for more information.

And GIRM means? And where do I find it?

 

[jmj1984]

Very troubling news.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/scottish-archbishop-tells-catholics-not-to-kneel-for-communion/

At least he’s on the way out

 

[At_Trent]

And GIRM means? And where do I find it?

General Instruction of the Roman Missal
old.usccb.org/romanmissal/girm-texts.shtml

 

[Dragonslayer]

I wonder if he would also prefer we stand and not kneel when we pray?

Strange stuff.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I for one would like to know what is the current official direction from the church.

The official direction of the Church is that each nation’s “Episcopal Conference” may choose a norm for the nation, kneeling or standing, but it is forbidden for people to be refused communion because they choose to kneel, which they are absolutely at liberty to do regardless of the decision of the Conference.

 

[The_Idiot]

I would ask you all to look again at the Archbishop’s letter , in particular at the 2 portions which I will again quote

… It is also from a standing position that we should make our sign of reverence before we receive Holy Communion, approaching the altar in a dignified procession. The option of genuflecting before receiving Holy Communion is also allowed, though we recommend the acceptance of the option which has become commonplace, namely of bowing our heads before receiving Communion, as this is less likely to interrupt the flow of people and is more sensitive to the fact that there are many in our congregations who would find it difficult to genuflect without having something to hold on to…….

I can find no reference in here to the fact that the faithful are required to stand to Receive Communion .

again

……When we return to our places after receiving Holy Communion we can sit or kneel but what we cannot fail to do, surely, is to address in the most intimate sanctuary of our hearts, the Lord,…

Again here , he is quite clear that when returning to the pew the faithful have to option of sitting or kneeling .

As I read the letter he has not mandated standing nor has he mandated Receiving Holy Communion in the hand

 

[archangel04]

youtube.com/watch?v=p3MiD_U4CHQ

Why would you be so mean to have my ears listen to that? I think you need to go to confession now

 

[archangel04]

The Archbishop states his reasons well, but the Church still says we have a choice doesn’t she ?

Very true, he is going against Church law. It’s one thing to deny COTT due to some “crazy flu” but it’s another to deny kneeling, for a person who can/wishes to kneel.

 

[The_Idiot]

Who is going against Church Law ?

His Grace’s letter states that you may either genuflect or bow before Receiving Holy Communion** it does not state that you will remain standing for the Reception of the most Sacred Body and Blood of Our Lord and Saviour**

 

[Rudolfo]

On and on it goes, from California to Scotland! Bishops under the mistaken idea that they are gods, trampling the serfs under their feet and squelching all genuine expressions of spirituality or devotion.

A bishop may stipulate the preferred posture for his diocese, but he may NOT prohibit anyone from kneeling. Ever. They have tried by brute force, by intimidation, by ostracizing. No one may deny a Catholic his right to kneel at ANY time in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament.

Now I want to say…this is supported in Canon Law, but then someone will demand I get the citation and I’m not here to play librarian. I do know that Fr. Z has addressed various kneeling topics on his blog, and he is always accurate, if anyone want to look around there. WDTPRS.com

 

[Rudolfo]

OKAY, here is is and more where that came from if needed. Kneel away!

Responses to Questions on
Kneeling for Holy Communion

by the
Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments

In 2002, the USA Bishops released a decree stating that the norm for reception of Holy Communion was standing. However, the Magisterium has always given Catholics the right to kneel. Due to various abuses of priests denying reception of those who kneel for Holy Communion, the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments in the Vatican has published the following responses to questions in the November-December 2002 edition (and later) of Notitiae, their official publication. These responses represent the view of the Holy See on the questions of kneeling to receive Holy Communion and the right of Catholics to address concerns to the Holy See, as well as the right to kneel for Holy Communion without being accused of disobedience.

Congregation de Cultu Divino et Disciplina Sacramentorum

Prot. n. 1322/02/L

Rome, 1 July 2002

Your Excellency,

This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has recently received reports of members of the faithful in your Diocese being refused Holy Communion unless while standing to receive, as opposed to kneeling. the reports state that such a policy has been announced to parishioners. There were possible indications that such a phenomenon might be somewhat more widespread in the Diocese, but the Congregation is unable to verify whether such is the case. This Dicastery is confident that Your Excellency will be in a position to make a more reliable determination of the matter, and these complaints in any event provide an occasion for the Congregation to communicate the manner in which it habitually addresses this matter, with a request that you make this position known to any priests who may be in need of being thus informed.

The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful, namely that of being assisted by their Pastors by means of the Sacraments (Codex Iuris Canonici, canon 213). In view of the law that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them” (canon 843 ß 1), there should be no such refusal to any Catholic who presents himself for Holy Communion at Mass, except in cases presenting a danger of grave scandal to other believers arising out of the person’s unrepented public sin or obstinate heresy or schism, publicly professed or declared. Even where the Congregation has approved of legislation denoting standing as the posture for Holy Communion, in accordance with the adaptations permitted to the Conferences of Bishops by the Institution Generalis Missalis Romani n. 160, paragraph 2, it has done so with the stipulation that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds.

In fact, as His Eminence, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has recently emphasized, the practice of kneeling for Holy Communion has in its favor a centuries-old tradition, and it is a particularly expressive sign of adoration, completely appropriate in light of the true, real and substantial presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ under the consecrated species.

Thanking Your Excellency for your attention to this matter and relying on your kind collaboration in its regard,

Sincerely yours in Christ,

Jorge A. Cardinal Medina Estévez
Prefect

+Francesco Pio Tamburrino
Archbishop Secretary

Congregation de Cultu Divino et Disciplina Sacramentorum

This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has received through official channels your letter dated 1 December 2002, related to the application of the norms approved by the Conference of Bishops of the United States of America, with the subsequent recognitio of this Congregation, as regards the question of the posture for receiving Holy Communion.

To this end, it is perhaps useful to respond to your inquiry by repeating the content of a letter that the Congregation recently addressed to a Bishop in the United States of America from whose Diocese a number of pertinent letters had been received. The letter states: "… while this Congregation gave the recognitio to the norm desired by the Bishops’ Conference of your country that people stand for Holy Communion, this was done on the condition that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds. Indeed, the faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Holy Communion".

With every prayerful good wish, I am

Sincerely yours in Christ,

Mons. Mario Marini
Undersecretary

 

[Te_Deum]

The Idiot has got it right. We are not being banned from kneeling in Glasgow (though His Grace would love to do so if he could). His Grace is going very shortly (hopefully sometime this coming month) and rumour is that His Lordship Bishop Tartaglia of Paisley is getting Glasgow. Though that doesn’t give me any more comfort.

The Extraordinary Form of the Mass is celebrated almost every day in Glasgow (excepting Saturday and Monday and to the great ire of His Grace) and there are a lot more priests who would like to celebrate it as well but fear of His Grace has stopped them (likewise for the Diocese of Paisley and His Lordship). We’re surviving if barely. Like Contra Mundum said, the east coast is doing very well, hopefully we in the west will join him soon.

We are doing quite well on the east coast, Cardinal O’Brien rocks.

Were you at Saint Mary’s last Friday?

Not sure what is going on in Glasgow.

It’s a revolution !

 

[NewsTheMan]

Alarmist and misleading title. Hopefully the OP was not baiting.

The Archbishop didn’t ban kneeling.
/thread

We can discuss his decision to speak for standing, and the ramifications of speaking for it, etc - but he didn’t ban kneeling.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Were you at Saint Mary’s last Friday?

Yes It was amazing.

 

[Te_Deum]

Yes It was amazing.

I was the cross-bearer. It was the first Missa Cantata that I’ve served. I was completely lost. I serve the Low Mass in Glasgow and know what’s what but… gah! Horrible.

And I was not a fan of the musical arrangement .

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I was the cross-bearer. It was the first Missa Cantata that I’ve served. I was completely lost. I serve the Low Mass in Glasgow and know what’s what but… gah! Horrible.

And I was not a fan of the musical arrangement .

You didn’t look lost, don’t worry.

I am normally not a fan of organ music but was pleasently surprised with the mass. I thought that the combination of organ and schola was interesting. I always prefer schola on its own but this was fine too.

 

[Te_Deum]

You didn’t look lost, don’t worry.

I missed communion because I was trying to figure out why the MC was telling me about a fourth bell after the priest’s communion ! He was actually trying to get me to line up!

I am normally not a fan of organ music but was pleasently surprised with the mass. I thought that the combination of organ and schola was interesting. I always prefer schola on its own but this was fine too.

I liked the organ playing. I think it would have been great on its own, sitting with a drink and a smoke . It just did not go well with the schola and the Gloria was excessive.