Scottish Archbishop bans kneeling during communion

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The_Old_Medic said:
Dropping to your knees, while people stand behind you, has NOTHING to do with reverence, and EVERYTHING to do with calling attention to YOU! YOU are attempting to show that YOU are more reverent, more pious, than all of the other people.

It identifies YOU as a Pharisee, one that has to publicly show how pious they are, but in reality are not following the rules of God at all. EXACTLY the kind of behavior that our Lord directly condemned.

For those that claim that receiving on their knees is more reverent, what position is the Priest in when HE receives Communion? If there are Con-Celebrants, what position are THEY in when THEY receive communion? They are STANDING.

If standing is less reverent, WHY DOES EVERY PRIEST IN THE WORLD RECEIVE THE EUCHARIST WHILE STANDING, WHEN THEY CELEBRATE THE MASS?
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Capitalizing your words doesn’t make your post more effective. In fact, it makes it seem like an attack. Posts like this aren’t going to get people to agree with you. You can’t persuade with spite. People don’t like other people who come across like this. Just letting you know.

Also, labeling someone as a “Pharisee” when you have no right to do so just makes you seem like a very hateful person. I shall remind you that you have no privilege to judge people who wish to receive kneeling. I’m sure that people who receive kneeling really don’t even care what other people think when they see them receiving kneeling, and I’m sure that kneeling people don’t do it to impress anyone. Our times nowadays are different than Christ’s time. Back then, religion was ingrained in to every aspect of life. So, doing “holier-than-thou” things like praying in public loudly could plausibly have been done to increase one’s standing in society, or to gain favor with others. As religion has changed and society has also, people are judged on their performance and their abilities, and not usually by their religious beliefs (at least in developed nations). If kneeling to God was done to impress other people back in Christ’s time, it is done now to show reverence to God and to worship Him. It’s still very possible to “wow” people with religion just to gain social or economic advantage. Look at televangelists. But when a Catholic kneels to the real body of Christ, he is not doing so because he cares to impress anyone.

As to why priests receive while standing, I have no idea on a real doctrinal level. But think of it like this. When a person receives from a priest while standing, he is receiving from the priest who is in persona Christi. When he receives communion himself, he is receiving in persona Christi also, and though it is physically being transported by his hand, he is still receiving from Christ. So, perhaps the priest stands to receive to preserve the dignity of being a vessel in persona Christi. It would look perhaps a little weird and maybe be a little disrespectful for the priest to kneel while Christ is using the priest’s body as an instrument.
 
In the EF, the priest genuflects before he pronounces over the consecrated Host: Panem coelestem accipiam et nomen Domini invocabo, Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum: sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea. Corpus Domini nostri Jesu Christi custodiat animam meam in vitam æternam. Amen. and then “receives.”
 
The_Old_Medic said:
Dropping to your knees, while people stand behind you, has NOTHING to do with reverence, and EVERYTHING to do with calling attention to YOU! YOU are attempting to show that YOU are more reverent, more pious, than all of the other people.

It identifies YOU as a Pharisee, one that has to publicly show how pious they are, but in reality are not following the rules of God at all. EXACTLY the kind of behavior that our Lord directly condemned.
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I think this is a gross overgeneralization. We have three people in our parish who kneel or genuflect to receive Communion. They are some of the most humble people I know. You cannot claim to know the motivations, intentions, or interior dispositions of people you do not know. :mad:
 
This Bishop is just being a busy-body. I hope it doesn’t break the rules to say that.

The Vatican certainly allows for kneeling andstanding and when the Pope routinely distributes communion to those kneeling it is obvious that both are permitted.

Whoever is the next Bishop in Glascow is sure to take this little episcopal decree back.
 
ringil said:
This Bishop is just being a busy-body. I hope it doesn’t break the rules to say that.

The Vatican certainly allows for kneeling andstanding and when the Pope routinely distributes communion to those kneeling it is obvious that both are permitted.

Whoever is the next Bishop in Glascow is sure to take this little episcopal decree back.
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For pities sake - will some of you please** READ** the Archbishop’s letter

rcag.org.uk/documents/PastoralLetterontheNewTranslationoftheRomanMissal.pdf

Please look at the various posts since I first posted that letter - posts 14, 19, 20, 29, 32, 35 36, 43 and 60

Nowhere , I repeat NOWHERE in His Grace’s pastoral letter has he said that anyone may not Receive Communion kneeling. NOWHERE in that Letter has he mandated HOW the faithful are to Receive Holy Communion

Having said that - **Ringil **- please would you explain to this very puzzled person exactly why you believe that His Grace Archbishop Conti is a busy-body ?
 
Corki said:
I think this is a gross overgeneralization. We have three people in our parish who kneel or genuflect to receive Communion. They are some of the most humble people I know. You cannot claim to know the motivations, intentions, or interior dispositions of people you do not know. :mad:
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You have to keep in mind that the OldMedic is vehemently, almost violently anti EF, anti COTT, and anti kneeling for communion. As long as you keep that in mind, you won’t be surprised. 😃
 
The_Idiot said:
For pities sake - will some of you please** READ** the Archbishop’s letter

rcag.org.uk/documents/PastoralLetterontheNewTranslationoftheRomanMissal.pdf

Please look at the various posts since I first posted that letter - posts 14, 19, 20, 29, 32, 35 36, 43 and 60

Nowhere , I repeat NOWHERE in His Grace’s pastoral letter has he said that anyone may not Receive Communion kneeling. NOWHERE in that Letter has he mandated HOW the faithful are to Receive Holy Communion

Having said that - **Ringil **- please would you explain to this very puzzled person exactly why you believe that His Grace Archbishop Conti is a busy-body ?
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I need to go back and read the thread in it’s entirety. I may have been hasty. Sorry if I was. I’ll go through it. 🙂
 
The_Idiot said:
Please look at the various posts since I first posted that letter - posts 14, 19, 20, 29, 32, 35 36, 43 and 60
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And 55, eventually. That poster can be a bit wordy, and nobody could be blamed for not reading to the end. 🙂

–Jen
 
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revert_jen:
How are the things above disgraceful? Granted that IMHO Joan Baez’ voice is extremely annoying (wobbling with a vibrato you could drive a truck through), it was a joke. It wasn’t even a particularly harsh joke. Most of the others were just jokes, too, and I imagine almost everyone realized it. I’m sure nobody really thinks that a Archbishop would come out against kneeling for Communion so he could play golf. It’s the absurdity (and of course the fact that it’s Scotland 🙂 ) that makes it funny.
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Jen, I don’t know whether you are completely naive or whether you think “I” am. Everyone who posts here in TC forum or in Liturgy & Sacraments knows that “kumbaya” is a derogatory term used to denigrate the Ordinary Form, very often used by traditionalists. If you guys want to gather 'round the campfire and crack jokes about the clergy, you need to know that it comes across as offensive to those who love the Church and her ministers. 😉

Two cents, and then some…
 
Sirach2 said:
Jen, I don’t know whether you are completely naive or whether you think “I” am. Everyone who posts here or at Liturgy & Sacraments knows that “kumbaya” is a derogatory term used to denigrate the Ordinary Form, and very often used by traditionalists.
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I think maybe I’m just a little more laid back. Or maybe I am naive. I thought in general kumbaya referred to the “folk Mass” culture that was prevalent in the 70s and 80s and still exists. Also perhaps a hint that the person may feel that Vatican II didn’t go quite far enough, liturgically speaking. Certainly not meant as a word of praise, but I think it is going a bit far to call it defamatory. (Defame is a synonym of denigrate.) I certainly have never thought of it as being an attack aimed at a reverently and licitly celebrated OF Mass (which is what I usually attend).
Sirach2 said:
If you guys want to gather 'round the campfire and crack jokes about the clergy, you need to know that it comes across as offensive to those who love the Church and her ministers.
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Because nobody who could make a joke about a bishop golfing could possibly love the Church and her ministers? I think you might want to investigate the possibility that you have over-reacted just a bit. It is not nice to say that anyone who can make a joke is not one of “those who love the Church and her ministers.”

–Jen
 
Jen, I am quite familiar with classroom bullies and indiscriminate oafs who tell the bare truth to insult someone with a smile on their face and say, “Oh, I was just kidding…” Meanwhile, you know darn well they are hiding truth under a joke. It really isn’t very funny, IMO, especially when the whole class laughs at the expense of the victim. Enough said - move on.
 
Sirach2 said:
Jen, I am quite familiar with classroom bullies and indiscriminate oafs who tell the bare truth to insult someone with a smile on their face and say, “Oh, I was just kidding…” Meanwhile, you know darn well they are hiding truth under a joke. It really isn’t very funny, IMO, especially when the whole class laughs at the expense of the victim. Enough said - move on.
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I can’t make you believe me, but everything I’ve said, I meant at face value, and have been as honest as I can. I haven’t seen any bullying in this thread, and I certainly haven’t intentionally engaged in it. Maybe I am naive to take things as positively as possible, but if so, it doesn’t seem to be hurting me any. Only the posters themselves know if they meant to be nasty and offensive. If they did, they should be ashamed.

I am sorry if I have seemed to be some guy sitting around a campfire laughing at bullies telling defamatory jokes about the clergy. It certainly wasn’t where I thought I was.

–Jen
 
Sirach2 said:
[sign] Well said. Thank you! 👍 [/sign]

Besides Idiot and this member, the other comments in this thread by *traditionalists *are disgraceful. I would really need to see a greater example of holiness with regard to respecting clergy, if ever I decided to become a trad, strictly speaking.
  • Why do I get the feeling that some paper work in the Vatican is about to get moved to the top of the pile? Brendan
  • Corki winks to this comment
  • Maybe it is all a ploy to get out of office and onto the golf course faster. Alwayslooking
  • Kumbaya on youtube - At Trent
  • Warrenton rofls At Trent’s comment
  • At least he’s on the way out - jmj1984
  • On and on it goes, from California to Scotland! Bishops under the mistaken idea that they are gods, Rudolfo
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So what do we call you? Progressive? You can’t use just the term Catholic for your slelf because apparently it has many meanings now.
 
The_Old_Medic said:
Dropping to your knees, while people stand behind you, has NOTHING to do with reverence, and EVERYTHING to do with calling attention to YOU! YOU are attempting to show that YOU are more reverent, more pious, than all of the other people.

It identifies YOU as a Pharisee, one that has to publicly show how pious they are, but in reality are not following the rules of God at all. EXACTLY the kind of behavior that our Lord directly condemned.

For those that claim that receiving on their knees is more reverent, what position is the Priest in when HE receives Communion? If there are Con-Celebrants, what position are THEY in when THEY receive communion? They are STANDING.

If standing is less reverent, WHY DOES EVERY PRIEST IN THE WORLD RECEIVE THE EUCHARIST WHILE STANDING, WHEN THEY CELEBRATE THE MASS?
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Once again I am no longer surprise by your comments. How do you know it’s all about calling attention to you? Can you read people’s hearts?
 
Sirach2 said:
To those who are defensive of my post, I suppose this liberal modernist, as you may have pegged me, was raised with more respect for the clergy than trads. I was never taught that it is ok to ridicule, demean, or make a mockery of their office. It was confirmed in the O.T. readings of David toward evil King Saul, toward whom David never showed disrespect; and more recently by St. Catherine of Siena who received revelations from Christ about how he hates this “sin.” And if you will hear it, it is in the forum’s rules.

Take it for what it is - this is how an outside observer views your “humor.”
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THough I agree we should not mock or disrespect the clergy, some of your past comments have done the same to your fellow Catholics. In the past you have come on to the trad forum and posted comments knowingly it would “start” something. Please don’t act like the blameless victim.
 
TrueLight said:
You have to keep in mind that the OldMedic is vehemently, almost violently anti EF, anti COTT, and anti kneeling for communion. As long as you keep that in mind, you won’t be surprised. 😃
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Also he never responds to his comments. This is what many on the internet tend to call a “troll” although I am not calling Mr. Medic a troll, he does act like one.
 
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