Scourging of Christ

[Warren_Stassi]

Every year at Lent I have the privilige of reviewing Mel Gipson,s the passion of Christ.
I am very confused that we never see depictions of our Lord following his historic scourging
In fact when you see the sterile depiction of our Lord on the cross,many times with the depiction of the spear wound on the rong side it makes me wonder are we too afraid to show the accurate depiction of his suffering?

 

[Julian0404]

Every year at Lent I have the privilige of reviewing Mel Gipson,s the passion of Christ.
I am very confused that we never see depictions of our Lord following his historic scourging
In fact when you see the sterile depiction of our Lord on the cross,many times with the depiction of the spear wound on the rong side it makes me wonder are we too afraid to show the accurate depiction of his suffering?

Have you read the book that inspired Mel to produce the movie?

 

[Mark77]

St. Paul taught us; "but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, " (1 Cor 1:23)

But Eternally, we are people of the Resurrection; “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,” (Jn 11:25)

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[GEddie]

Every year at Lent I have the privilige of reviewing Mel Gipson,s the passion of Christ.
I am very confused that we never see depictions of our Lord following his historic scourging
In fact when you see the sterile depiction of our Lord on the cross,many times with the depiction of the spear wound on the rong side it makes me wonder are we too afraid to show the accurate depiction of his suffering?

A priest told me that crucifixes once were much more graphic, but that Church policy has been to “clean up” the images since then, so that people do not fixate on the visual hideosity of the passion.

I personally think everybody should see MGPOTC, hopefully more than once.
We need to face headon, at least in Lent, just how ugly what happened to HIM was; it is part of our heritage of faith.

(Ideally, everybody should descend the Roman catacombs, also. Those who once worshipped there are also our heritage of faith. But that would be far more difficult and expensive for most people.)

ICXC NIKA

 

[Della]

A priest told me that crucifixes once were much more graphic, but that Church policy has been to “clean up” the images since then, so that people do not fixate on the visual hideosity of the passion.

I personally think everybody should see MGPOTC, hopefully more than once.
We need to face headon, at least in Lent, just how ugly what happened to HIM was; it is part of our heritage of faith.

(Ideally, everybody should descend the Roman catacombs, also. Those who once worshipped there are also our heritage of faith. But that would be far more difficult and expensive for most people.)

ICXC NIKA

I have never heard a priest say that it was “Church policy” to “clean up” the crucifixes so that people wouldn’t be fixated on the hideousness of the passion. I’m not doubting you–I’m just saying I think your priest was fudging it more than he ought to.

How graphic crucifixes are depend on the culture in which they are produced. Spanish/Latino crucifixes tend to be very graphic, as are their sorrowing Madonnas. It’s the WASPish West that has toned down the reality because we don’t want to be reminded of the truly awful price Christ paid. It’s not “respectable” to show a truly bloody, suffering Christ on the cross. Hence the risen Jesus (touchdown) crucifixes so popular with so many parishes. But it’s the crucifix that reminds us of our debt to our loving God, which is why the Church has said one must be on or near the altar in every Catholic parish/church/chapel, etc. And thank God for it! Seeing a real crucifix reminds us that Christ was truly incarnated, truly lived, and truly died as the God-man. It’s important, which is why the Church in its wisdom won’t let it be taken down and replaced with some other wimpy representation.

 

[puzzleannie]

Every year at Lent I have the privilige of reviewing Mel Gipson,s the passion of Christ.
I am very confused that we never see depictions of our Lord following his historic scourging
In fact when you see the sterile depiction of our Lord on the cross,many times with the depiction of the spear wound on the rong side it makes me wonder are we too afraid to show the accurate depiction of his suffering?

not in the Hispanic churches here, or even the inexpensive crucifixes sold on the street in Mexico. I think like all sacred art there is a cultural influence on the theology that is communicated in the art.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

. . .
In fact when you see the sterile depiction of our Lord on the cross,many times with the depiction of the spear wound on the wrong side it makes me wonder are we too afraid to show the accurate depiction of his suffering?

I don’'t know which side you are calling the wrong side. Many assume it was on the left because that is where the heart is. However, I have seen it claimed that the Roman army taught a diagonal thrust from below the ribs on the right across into the heart. I suspect that a reasonable argument can be made for either side.

 

[NeedImprovement]

MGPOTC is some kind of movie all right. A priest friend of mine who has been severely debilitated for over 10 years now by multiple diseases asked me to put his video tape of The Passion into his VCR-enabled TV and set it up and play it before I left him today.

A graphic depiction of the Scourging helps to awaken our contrition for our sins which in turn can lead us to be mindful of, as Della says of the Crucifix, “…our debt to our loving God”.

Meditation on our Blessed Lord’s sufferings also has a direct effect on temptation. I knew someone who told me that when they were tempted (in the pre-MGPOTC days), they would read a passage from THE PASSION AND THE DEATH OF JESUS CHRIST, by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, and the temptation would either diminish or disappear totally. Of course the Sorrowful Mysteries of the Holy Rosary are another great way to meditate and pray on the Passion and suffering of our Lord.

Blessed Brother André Bessette whose canonization ceremony will take place later this year at the very place of prayer he founded - St. Joseph’s Oratory (here in Montreal) had a staue of our scourged Saviour ; purported to be his favourite statue.The statue can be seen when touring the Oratory and it is very graphic - a close cousin of the images found in MGPOTC. Something I found out a little later concerning another use Blessed Brother André found for the statue besides his own personal meditation:

umanitoba.ca/colleges/st_pauls/ccha/Back%20Issues/CCHA1982/Sinclair-Faulkner.html

“…In the display of Brother André’s sparse possessions that the museum of the Oratory offers is one statue, no more and no less: a plaster image of Jesus immediately following his scourging before Pilate. Jesus’ hands are bound with cords, the crown of thorns is on his head, and blood flows freely from his many wounds. His head is bowed and he is plainly seen to be suffering. The same 35-cm. statue appears in the life-size diorama showing Brother André in the office where he met pilgrims to the Oratory, and this time the statue rests on the counter behind which André stands. We know that it was André’s custom to keep this statue concealed beneath the counter or in a desk drawer. When challenged by the obstinacy of an unrepentant sinner he would bring the statue out of hiding and use it to illustrate what sometimes amounted to an hour-long description of Jesus’ suffering. (22) We also know that a similar statue, modified only by the addition of chains and a canopy, stood on the table beside Brother André’s bed in his private living quarters.”

So, it can be said that not all of us in the West subscribe to diluted depictions of the Passion of Our Lord.

 

[Warren_Stassi]

I don’'t know which side you are calling the wrong side. Many assume it was on the left because that is where the heart is. However, I have seen it claimed that the Roman army taught a diagonal thrust from below the ribs on the right across into the heart. I suspect that a reasonable argument can be made for either side.

 

[Warren_Stassi]

Your reply shows your inadequate exposure to medical pathology

 

[awatkins69]

It is unfortunate that our Lord’s wounds aren’t more prominent. That was the Sacrifice that was given for us, simply out of God’s mercy, condescension, and pure love. And it really helps if we can meditate on it.

BTW, does anybody know where I can find a very bloody and realistic wall crucifix? Something like these maybe?

sacred-destinations.com/italy/assisi-san-damiano-pictures/xti_1156.JPG
fatherjohn.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/crucifix.jpg

The only good one I found was this, and the corpus looks kind of un-realistic like a toy almost:
halo-works.com/product/HW008C/Realistic_Crucifix__HW008C.html

 

[Warren_Stassi]

I have never heard a priest say that it was “Church policy” to “clean up” the crucifixes so that people wouldn’t be fixated on the hideousness of the passion. I’m not doubting you–I’m just saying I think your priest was fudging it more than he ought to.

How graphic crucifixes are depend on the culture in which they are produced. Spanish/Latino crucifixes tend to be very graphic, as are their sorrowing Madonnas. It’s the WASPish West that has toned down the reality because we don’t want to be reminded of the truly awful price Christ paid. It’s not “respectable” to show a truly bloody, suffering Christ on the cross. Hence the risen Jesus (touchdown) crucifixes so popular with so many parishes. But it’s the crucifix that reminds us of our debt to our loving God, which is why the Church has said one must be on or near the altar in every Catholic parish/church/chapel, etc. And thank God for it! Seeing a real crucifix reminds us that Christ was truly incarnated, truly lived, and truly died as the God-man. It’s important, which is why the Church in its wisdom won’t let it be taken down and replaced with some other wimpy representation.

 

[Warren_Stassi]

Church policy or church moderazation???

 

[Della]

Church policy or church moderazation???

Definitely not Church policy. As I wrote, we in the West (Northern Europe and the USA) have taken on a Protestantized/Enlightenment attitude that nearly excludes all religious zeal. It’s why some groups are so overly zealous, IMHO. According to this new philosophy we’re to go by nothing but reason while, conversely, “following our hearts”, as they put into the mouth of Spock in the latest Star Trek movie. IOW, we’re to cast aside all that religious “stuff” for our own devices. Man as the center of everything. It’s no wonder even some Evangelicals are questioning whether or not Jesus was truly man–back to Arianism and our Catholics are so wishy-washy and so easily led by society’s evaluation of morals instead of the Church Christ founded. I could go on and on here, but you get the idea. We’ve divorced ourselves from Christ’s cross and are paying the consequences of it.