Scourging Oneself?

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Venite_Adoremus_1

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Hello everyone,

What is the Church’s teaching on inflicting bodily harm upon oneself as a form of penance, bodily discipline, or unification with the sufferings of Christ?

What is your opinion of it?

I was thinking earlier, and it seems as though many of the reasons people fast are the same reasons people have scourged themselves.
 
You might want to check with an Opus Dei priest or someone more versed on the subject. As I understand, it is rare and only prudent with the direction of a spiritual director. But, as I said, I recommend checking with a source more versed in the matter! :o
 
As I understand the topic use of the discipline is only permitted by and under the direction of one’s spiritual director. As Marco Polo recommended it is necessary to check with a source e.g. an Opus Dei priest about this matter.
 
yinekka said:
As I understand the topic use of the discipline is only permitted by and under the direction of one’s spiritual director. As Marco Polo recommended it is necessary to check with a source e.g. an Opus Dei priest about this matter.
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St. Faustina always asked for permission from her spiritual director and from the Mother Superior before taking on any mortification. As an aside, Blessed JPII was known to take the discipline even when he was Pope.
 
There is enough suffering on this earth. There is little value, in my opinion, in injuring your own body purposefully to some spiritual value. That is not to say that there is not spiritual value in human suffering; see the Pope’s Encyclical on Human Suffering. However, is not the suffering of Our Blessed Lord sufficient to save us and forgive our sins? Offer up the natural pains and sufferings of our ordinary days, don’t beat Brother *** any further.
 
Petaro said:
There is enough suffering on this earth. There is little value, in my opinion, in injuring your own body purposefully to some spiritual value. That is not to say that there is not spiritual value in human suffering; see the Pope’s Encyclical on Human Suffering. However, is not the suffering of Our Blessed Lord sufficient to save us and forgive our sins? Offer up the natural pains and sufferings of our ordinary days, don’t beat Brother *** any further.
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I agree. Also, bodily pain that one inflicts on himself can be a source of pride. The sufferings that God allows for us, accepted with love, is very good.

Anything further than that should be discussed with a spiritual director. I was on a retreat many years ago with a priest whose forte was spiritual direction. He was a retreat master that gave retreats to priests, nuns, and lay people interested in a deeper prayer life. He mentioned once that our nervous systems are different from those in other times, and mostly, certain mortifications were no longer recommended.

Fasting according to our ability is good, because it helps us to focus on the spiritual.
 
NeedsMercy said:
St. Faustina always asked for permission from her spiritual director and from the Mother Superior before taking on any mortification. As an aside, Blessed JPII was known to take the discipline even when he was Pope.
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The story about Pope John Paul II was never confirmed, but was told by a maid who heard noises from his room which SHE thought might be self-flagellation. However, as other aids to the Pope said, he was very much into doing physical exercise in his room and what the maid heard was probably the Holy Father working out.

Jim
 
St Theresa the Little Flower use to say something to the effect that there were enough thorns in life to offer up without creating your own.

Jim
 
Mortification is a long standing practice of the Church, not limited to Opus Dei.

Mortification can exist along several dimensions…and should be done only under the explicit direction of one’s wise spiritual director, preferably a priest.

Mortification need not be severe…the little mortifications or p(name removed by moderator)ricks of the day can be quite enough, if one were to wisely take advantage of them.

There is active and passive mortification…Active: deliberately smiling when you don’t want to, not salting one’s food occasionally, getting up right away moving vigorously.

Passive: handling well an unavoidable annoyance…red lights…a flat tire, missed airplane.

Mortifications can also be understood as internal or external. An internal mortification might be simply to force your attention more “generously” onto your work, or pushing away some felling of resentment, or pushing yourself to be a bit more cheerful.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The story about Pope John Paul II was never confirmed, but was told by a maid who heard noises from his room which SHE thought might be self-flagellation. However, as other aids to the Pope said, he was very much into doing physical exercise in his room and what the maid heard was probably the Holy Father working out.

Jim
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Well, this may sound a little irreverent, but I am one of those people to whom working out IS self-flagellation. Perhaps the Pope was of the same mind.😉
 
runningdude said:
Opus Dei does not promote “corporal mortification”; that is complete nonsense fabricated by Dan Brown in The DaVinci Code.
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While Dan Brown exaggerated and misrepresented mortification, I understand that Opus Dei does practice some forms. See here.
 
yinekka said:
As I understand the topic use of the discipline is only permitted by and under the direction of one’s spiritual director. As Marco Polo recommended it is necessary to check with a source e.g. an Opus Dei priest about this matter.
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I know of some national politicians who do this, and are also members of Opus Dei. It is not a ‘myth’.
 
I must question those who practice flagellation to the point of bleeding. One can lash himself with a cord leaving only welts, but enough lashes will start bringing tears. That is as far as anyone should go to “mortify the deeds of the body” as stated in Romans 8:13.

A contrite confession with tears is what our Lord prefers. No need even to whip yourself unless it is to build mental and spriritual dicipline. Christ shed the only blood that mattered. Welts vanish but inflicting deep cuts and mutilations fall out of the scope of the Christian faith that I know of.
 
Accepting our daily disappointments with grace is enough for some of us to do. In some ways that can break our will even more, since it is not of our choice, but something we need to surrender to for the love of the Lord.

Also: Going out of our way to spend some time talking to someone who really irritates us.

Eating leftovers instead of getting something special you would rather have.

Smiling and saying “thank you Lord” when the energy bill is much higher than usual.

And the list can go on…🙂
 
Man_of_War said:
I must question those who practice flagellation to the point of bleeding. One can lash himself with a cord leaving only welts, but enough lashes will start bringing tears. That is as far as anyone should go to “mortify the deeds of the body” as stated in Romans 8:13.

A contrite confession with tears is what our Lord prefers. No need even to whip yourself unless it is to build mental and spriritual dicipline. Christ shed the only blood that mattered. Welts vanish but inflicting deep cuts and mutilations fall out of the scope of the Christian faith that I know of.
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Dorothy gave us a wonderful answer. I am not sure it’s really our business to question what some struggler and his/her spiritual director decides is a good means of ascetism to pursue. Celibate people may need more help. It’s easy to question this or that, without understanding the depth of struggle and conversation that has gone on between a struggler and the spiritual director.

Maybe we turn our attention away from the more dramatic means of mortification (I see you have posted elsewhere on this topic) and instead examine more deeply the ordinary means that we can use to hone our will in line with God, and to - little by little - detach from the the pursuit of comfort for comfort’s sake.

Again, Dorothy’s response was excellent.
 
Edward_H said:
Dorothy gave us a wonderful answer. I am not sure it’s really our business to question what some struggler and his/her spiritual director decides is a good means of ascetism to pursue. Celibate people may need more help. It’s easy to question this or that, without understanding the depth of struggle and conversation that has gone on between a struggler and the spiritual director.

Maybe we turn our attention away from the more dramatic means of mortification (I see you have posted elsewhere on this topic) and instead examine more deeply the ordinary means that we can use to hone our will in line with God, and to - little by little - detach from the the pursuit of comfort for comfort’s sake.

Again, Dorothy’s response was excellent.
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Thank you. I give the credit to a very holy Carmelite priest whose Days of Prayer, Mass, and two conferences on spiritual formation I attended once a month for several years.

And you are correct in pointing out that what goes on between a spiritual director and who he is directing is private and should remain so. A good director knows what is appropriate for a particular personality, and where they are on the spiritual journey.
 
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