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Cruciferi
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Yup. That’s why I’m working janitorial…
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joeybaggz
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Being generally a conservative in my thinking, I don’t often quote the late Senator Ted Kennedy but he did once say something very wise, “the measure of a society is its ability to take care of the weakest and poorest citizens.”
Something I can agree with. People with serious disabilities who cannot fend for themselves need to be taken care of by others. Unfortunately, at generally the insistence of the Democratic Party, laziness and illegitimacy are disabilities.
In a town in which I used to live, we had a couple of young men afflicted with severe cerebral palsy. They would come downtown every day in good weather to be among people and enjoy the sunshine and good weather. None of those young men could hold a job or contribute in any practical way to their livelihood. I have no problem with my taxes being used to support them, and others in similar situations. It is a Catholic imperative. As to the mechanism of doing so, I do agree with the posters who say that it is the purview of the state and not the federal government. The founding documents of this country state that the government (federal) is to promote, not provide, the general welfare.
Something I can agree with. People with serious disabilities who cannot fend for themselves need to be taken care of by others. Unfortunately, at generally the insistence of the Democratic Party, laziness and illegitimacy are disabilities.
In a town in which I used to live, we had a couple of young men afflicted with severe cerebral palsy. They would come downtown every day in good weather to be among people and enjoy the sunshine and good weather. None of those young men could hold a job or contribute in any practical way to their livelihood. I have no problem with my taxes being used to support them, and others in similar situations. It is a Catholic imperative. As to the mechanism of doing so, I do agree with the posters who say that it is the purview of the state and not the federal government. The founding documents of this country state that the government (federal) is to promote, not provide, the general welfare.
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goout
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I am currently trying to mentor a 14 year old boy who has some severe personality deficits. The main thing plaguing him is lethargy and lack of attention.
For most of his 14 years he and his family have sat around the house looking at one screen or another. He has almost no hope of being a productive citizen unfortunately, because the way of thinking and behaving is ingrained in him.
On top of that, they are trying to solve his problems with psychiatric medication.
Listless poverty is now generational. Or is increasingly so compared to past generations.
I hate to say it, but if my brothers/sisters displayed the attitude this young man has, a healthy fear of consequences would have been instilled almost immediately, either by word or the back of the hand.
In any case, the value of work was recognized as important, so much so that it was worth hurting someone’s feeling to instill that value. Honestly, for most of human history, the family did not have the luxury of discussing lethargy with a child.
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ProdglArchitect
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I honestly don’t have an answer; I’m just reacting to the problems I see. So many people slack because the welfare safety net exists. I legitimately believe that if we removed that safety net, if we removed the incentive for slacking, we would see a decrease in these cases.ProdglArchitect:
Where i live, you have to actively look for work and show evidence, and if you don’t you lose your benefit. I think that’s reasonable enough. I don’t think any good will come from removing safety nets from people who did badly at school, and even if we did, how do we determine the slackers from the ones that just were not very intelligent and had learning difficulties? They can still get work, and be productive, there is just more competition at the bottom for Jobs, so there will always be a certain number of people dependent on the system no-matter what…
There is already a natural punishment for people who slack. They get the Jobs nobody wants.
I’m also not saying that we shouldn’t help these people, I just don’t think that help should come in the form of federal welfare.
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goout
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WW3 might break out due to moral lassitude. Nothing better to do.
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ProdglArchitect
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You say psychiatric medicine like it’s a bad thing. I am hardcore ADHD, without my meds I cannot focus on something unless I find it interesting. There is nothing wrong with taking meds when they are necessary. The problem is that they are frequently over-prescribed, and any kind of misbehavior is labelled as this or that disorder, rather than just being recognized as a lack of discipline.ProdglArchitect:
I am currently trying to mentor a 14 year old boy who has some severe personality deficits. The main thing plaguing him is lethargy and lack of attention.
For most of his 14 years he and his family have sat around the house looking at one screen or another. He has almost no hope of being a productive citizen unfortunately, because the way of thinking and behaving is ingrained in him.
On top of that, they are trying to solve his problems with psychiatric medication.
This was my experience. Even with my issues, if I didn’t do my work my parents didn’t let it slide. ADHD was never an excuse, just something that I needed to learn to live and work with.
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goout
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yes I should have added that his medication contributes to his lethargy. he needs medication to sleep and medication to wake up.
Not disrespectring medication per se. I’ve had some myself over the years.
Not disrespectring medication per se. I’ve had some myself over the years.
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ProdglArchitect
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Ahh… wow, that’s bad. Medication to sleep and wake up? Has he tried turning off the screens for an hour before bed? I’ve started trying to read for an hour or so before bed and it has done wonders for my insomnia.
(Reading a book / Kindle, not on a phones screen / laptop).
That almost sounds like the sort of thing you get with extreme depression…
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goout
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The screens never shut off.
Unfortunately I am not his parent, and we are actually at a crossroads now. that’s another thread.
Unfortunately I am not his parent, and we are actually at a crossroads now. that’s another thread.
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on_the_hill
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The feds provide the money. The states administer the programs and funnel the money down to local governments and private providers. Mostly that’s how it works. It varies from state to state.
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JanSobieskiIII
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Exactly. That’s part of my problem with it.
The federal government should be so far removed from the life of the average American that they’re as much concern to us as the government of Angola.
We should almost exclusively deal with our own state governments and more local government.
The federal government should be so far removed from the life of the average American that they’re as much concern to us as the government of Angola.
We should almost exclusively deal with our own state governments and more local government.
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TheLittleLady
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Define “welfare”, specific program names, Federal or State defined please.
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guanophore
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Education is certainly not “free”! It is also paid for by our tax dollars, and subsidies from the pockets of the teachers themselves. So, in a manner of speaking, they have already had all their basic skills training paid for by the government. Not enough of it is job preparation, clearly, as no student should come through a public education expecting to live on “welfare”.
I am thinking that you do not approve of back to work conditions that have been added to programs such as SNAP and TANF?
I agree that it is a problem, but I think it is deeper and more widespread than the “welfare system” (whatever you mean by that). This is a problem with public schools not addressing failure, failure of discipline (including having cell phones out in class) and a failure to engage and inspire our young people.
The fact is that we have created an “entitlement” system right within the public school because an education has been provided for them that they do not appreciate or utilize.
I agree that throwing more resources after those that were not utilized does not solve anything.
I also agree that people who are able to work need to work. Even people with disabilities need to be able to do what work they can do.
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IWantGod
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Does anyone here support the idea of working for welfare? I’m not saying i do, but i remember something like that was being proposed in the UK years back.
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guanophore
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That is awful! I did not know that was legal!
Of course not, but as a public school employee I pay into both SS and the educators retirement fund, and I get both in the end.
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Maximilian75
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Unless the Church can step in and fill the gap, no
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luisvera
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All coercively funded government welfare? Yes. The welfare state? YES. I support replacing it with real charity and mutual aid networks, aslo check atuff like the catholic worker movement
Sidenote: i’m not american, i’m venezuelan, i know what happens when you expand government in the name of the poor, spoiler alert: everyone gets poorer
Sidenote: i’m not american, i’m venezuelan, i know what happens when you expand government in the name of the poor, spoiler alert: everyone gets poorer
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ProdglArchitect
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Free was a bad word choice, I know that teachers wind up paying for a grossly-disproportionate amount of their supplies, I have the credit card bills to prove it >_>.
What i meant was that education is provided for through an established system which does not require additional payment outside of what is already collected through taxes. This is in contrast to private schools, which require tuition.
I am unfamiliar with SNAP or TANF, sorry.
I disagree. I think it is a failure of the household, the family, and the society they grow up in. None of her student’s parents cared. At an average parent-teacher visit night (open-house thingy), she would get three visitors, maybe four. That’s out of roughly 180 students each year.
I agree that the schools are far too lenient, if I did half the crap some of her students have done I’d have been expelled ten times over.
I also believe that the students wield too much power with the ability to accuse teachers of anything without repercussions. One of my wife’s coworkers was fired for essentially calling all of his students a bunch of little hellions (He used more colorful language). The thing is, they were. They spent the entire semester purposefully breaking his stuff and tormenting his animals. Then, after literally 3/4 of a school year of this, they had one student record while another student stood up, picked up something off his desk, and broke it in two right in front of him. But instead of being punished for being little bast****, the teacher was fired and nothing happened to the students.
The schools are failing the teachers and the students, and the students’ families are also failing them.
The thing is, it is not our job to make up for their failures. At some point, personal responsibility takes over…
I couldn’t agree more.
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ProdglArchitect
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You’re lucky, Texas teachers only pay into the teacher’s retirement fund, and cannot collect from it if they are collecting social security. Considering how many of them have to work a second job to support themselves, this is essentially extortion.ProdglArchitect:
That is awful! I did not know that was legal!
Of course not, but as a public school employee I pay into both SS and the educators retirement fund, and I get both in the end.
I do think this is changing soon though. I remember my wife mentioning something about a change to the retirement plan. They might actually be getting legit 401k’s soon.
Getting back on topic, I was just reading through that article, and I think that this is the crux of the matter:
I think the general belief among those looking to abolish current welfare systems is that they do not meet these goals. They are not effective, they do not seek to end poverty. Quite the opposite, they have created generations of people who rely on welfare and accept poverty as the norm. Current welfare provides an excuse not to escape poverty.
The hungry should be fed and the homeless should be sheltered, but that does not mean we should give money to just anybody, especially when that person is capable of providing for themselves, but simply doesn’t.
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guanophore
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@Cruciferi fish looks delicious! But I agree, this is the bottom line. I also think that it will be solved at the grassroots level, with the Church supporting her own first, then reaching out to those who are in need around us. The more communities work on a local level to meet the needs of the poor, the less load there will be at the federal level.
At the same time work can be done to reform the "system’ so that there is encouragement toward human dignity, purpose, and meaning found in doing work. People have issues with FDR, but he did put a lot of people to work.
What benefit is that?
Dont’ you think the “evidence” can be forged?
Hey, I put myself through grad school as a janitor. Sometimes I miss it.
I think it is necessary to make a distinction between disability income and other conditions that are related to people not working. Anyone who has dealt with SSDI knows that, regardless of what the Dems may say, laziness and illegitimacy do not qualify as eligible conditions.
Yes and we also need to find a way to inspire people to work. Poverty and unemployment is a cultural disease that reflects the lack of a sense of meaning and purpose in our culture. The Catholic answer, of course, is spiritual. This is why the monastery model worked so well throughout the medieval period. If a person was willing to work, they could live at a monastery and be clothed, fed, and spiritually supported.
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