Screaming Babies at Mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter ardis3958
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I think there is a lot of misperception out there, most of it good-natured.

Everybody knows that occasionally babies will scream. People understand that.

And babies will sometimes scream at Mass. People understand that too.

And everybody knows that treating that behavior with dirty looks, pointed ‘remarks’, etc. is not going to be helpful in getting the screaming to stop or getting the parents to ‘take care of things’ (because no parent is clairvoyant and can ‘stop’ screaming before it starts.’)

We understand this. We are sympathetic to the baby, and to the parents. We are sympathetic to the people who might have their own disabilities and whose perception of screaming is more difficult for them (people with autism are often extrasensitive to ANY noise). We understand. We want to make things as comfortable as we can for anybody.

But --and yes, it is a legitimate concern- we are also sensitive to the fact that some parents might need a little more help than others --not because the parents are stupid or vicious but because their own experiences or temperaments or understanding is DIFFERENT from the ‘majority’ experience.

A mother and father who themselves were raised perhaps with beatings and blows might be so fearful that they would do the same to their child that they swing too far in permissiveness.

A mother who is exhausted from single parenthood and has no experiences of child raising and no family or friends might just not be aware on a variety of levels that her child’s screams are getting out of control.

And --a very small percentage I am sure --there do exist some parents who, for whatever reason, just DO NOT CARE about anyone or anything but themselves. These are the parents whose kids are going to be wandering out at midnight when they’re 3 years old because Daddy is drunk again and Mom’s locked herself in the bathroom to shoot up some crack. These are the kids who are going to be the illdressed, swearing, defiant bullies in 3rd grade and the 14 year old pregnant girls and 14 year old boys in court for assault or murder. . .because they never had any guidance that was positive.

So even for those ROTTEN parents we probably need to be saying some extra prayers and modeling Christian attitudes of parenting AND of brotherhood and sisterhood because maybe on the few occasions as they grow older that these kids find themselves in a church, it might be that by seeing a friendly smile or a gentle, ‘let me help you do this, dear’ instead of the usual neglect or outright abuse they experience otherwise, they will break the cycle and know that there is more to life than abuse.
 
Also, kids being kids. I often have two choices. Keep my kid in the pew where he will cry and scream uncontrollably. Or let him wander around where he’ll be relatively more quiet but moving around.

Of course in the Byzantine Rite where people stand for most of the Liturgy, someone walking around isn’t a huge issue.
 
All of which reminds me of a story.

Some years back my wife was singing at a church in Paris. I came into the back of the church and sat in a back row. All the old ladies and gents were back there, too. Oddly, the place was jammed this Sunday. In front of me was a young mother with a 3-4 year old. She was clearly saving a seat, too. The little boy was all wiggles, going out in the aisle, etc. Mom kept trying to corral him and the old folks would glare at him regularly in an obvious group effort at discipline. (Gotta admit I just smiled at the whole scene.) Then in walk 6 priests for Mass. As a French friend wryly said, “I didn’t know there were six priests in all of Paris anymore!” Just before the first reading the dad arrived. Dad plunks the boy down firmly. Boy then wiggles out into the aisle again to dance. Dad swoops down, forcefully to bring him into the pew; the boy, in mid air, covers his tush with his hands. I almost laughed out loud. The boy was controlled (OK that’s a difference) - some folks would say he should have been removed or never brought.

The interesting part was it turned out that the sexton was retiring and was presented with a Papal honor at this Mass. I did not know this until mid-Mass when it was announced. This young couple were family of the honoree as I overheard some discussion. I suspect dad was late as he probably was having trouble finding parking on the Left Bank. The old folks glaring were helping the mom and not criticizing her. I think the boy probably should have been there - if it were grandpa (I wasn’t sure of the relationship), he most definitely should have been.

You never know. Cut folks a break.
 
Well, in the RC people don’t get to practice such charity because they never have to worry about screaming at a kid that turns out to be Father’s child. Try that in an Eastern parish 😃
 
I don’t mind crying babies at all. It wouldn’t be Mass without babies there. I find most parents are attentive.

I have been to other churches and it is common and even expected to remove all signs of children from the service. Babies and children are considered a distraction and are dropped off immediately upon arrival at the church and picked up after the ending of service. So there are kid/baby rooms and areas staffed with a large percentage of teenagers. Some large churches have whole wings dedicated to containing and entertaining the kids like a daycare complete with snacks, lots of toys, and playgrounds.

It isn’t always the easiest option to get baby ready and bring baby to Mass. I am glad parents go through the effort. Please don’t give parents of new babies bad looks, they probably haven’t really slept in months and could do without any negativity, just offer a smile. And then get on with your day.
I suppose if you do not wish to see babies you do have an option to sit in the very front and arrive early to plan your sitting arrangement accordingly.
 
  1. I can’t say I’ve ever seen a baby in the “sanctuary.” 🙂
  2. The Mass is not a show and every baptized person has a right to be there. That includes babies who act like babies. Those who deliberately disrupt the Mass can and should be removed. Those who disrupt the Mass due their condition, e.g., infancy, may be removed or may be kept in the congregation.
  3. Parents have the right to make the decision to remove babies, but are under no obligation to do so. There is no obligation for a child to attend Mass until 7 years of age. However, that does not mean the child - or parent for the child - can simply be excluded. As a baptized member of the body of Christ, that child has a right to be there.
  4. The non-parents/caretakers need to act like grown-ups and deal with the vicissitudes of life including tolerating screaming babies if the parents decide to keep the screaming child at Mass.
  5. Life is messy.
Spot on. We seem to have little tolerance anymore for normal life - that’s all a crying baby is: a normal part of life.
 
As a mom of three kids under 4, I try to be sensitive to how much noise my kids make. If the littlest is just making googoogaga noises, I don’t worry, but if any of them gets upset/crying, I try to get them out the back quickly. That being said, we always sit within 10 rows of the back so that we’re in close proximity, I bring books for the kids for something quiet to look at, and sometimes I’ll bring quiet snacks and milk.

A few weeks ago, a “single” mom sat in the front row with three kids, the youngest about 3 or 4 years old. He cried and carried on during the ENTIRE mass, disrupting ALL of us. It was so bad that Father didn’t say a homily (when he went to start, he looked at the child and said “I can wait”, but about five minutes went by with no change, so he moved on). I brought the mom a kid’s book and baggie of Cherrios hoping to distract the child (I know what it’s like!), but that was ineffective. At one point someone told the mom that she should leave. I understand that it was annoying, but she wouldn’t have been able to take just the noisy one out - she was there by herself and was not a “regular”, so leaving the other two in the church would not have been an option.

I, personally, felt terrible for her. I love being able to bring my children to church, and Father has repeatedly told me to keep bringing them, even if sometimes they make some noise. But, I also feel that this mom should have sat near the back, so that at least the noise would have been less disruptive to Father.

She has not come back. That’s the sad part, to me, anyway. The church members we sit near know us, they’re used to us, and they help us if one of the kids drops something. I would have loved to help this mom, either by keeping an eye on her other two while she took the youngest out to talk to him, or whatever! I do hope she gives our church another chance.
 
I love screaming babies at mass (except during the homily, when I would want to hear the message).

I’ve been to masses in Bangla, French, Spanish, Latin, Korean. Rarely can I understand what is being said. A baby mass is no different. But I know what is happening, I receive the graces, I pray, I leave with great joy.

I also love babies, parents, families, and single people. They are all welcome.

The only time I would find a problem is if it is not babies but children. Old enough to speak and know what ‘no’ means. Then a little corporal punishment outside might just do the trick and get their attention. So in that case, maybe a kind word to the parents after mass might be appropriate.
I love babies too but wanting to reflect and take part in the mass is difficult and sometimes impossible when parents or a parent do not know when to recognise a situation when their baby is disturbing. and a crying…let alone screaming baby is disturbing…if not to you, it is to many. If not to the priest…most of the time it is…it is to many. Isn’t this a good enough reason to go to a crying room or somewhere. By the way…what has loving babies got to do with this subject…would you enjoy a crying baby in a movie you were enjoying? 🙂
 
I love babies too but wanting to reflect and take part in the mass is difficult and sometimes impossible when parents or a parent do not know when to recognise a situation when their baby is disturbing. and a crying…let alone screaming baby is disturbing…if not to you, it is to many. If not to the priest…most of the time it is…it is to many. Isn’t this a good enough reason to go to a crying room or somewhere.
I don’t see how a crying baby can make it impossible to take part in a mass. You can still worship in union with the child. He in his way, you in yours. I can see how it would be difficult to worship the way you want; but the mass is not the way you want, it is the way God wants. And He has not revealed that we are to take those who are uncomfortable (screaming babies) and relegate them to a remote site.

Perhaps the child will be the only one giving proper worship. 🤷
By the way…what has loving babies got to do with this subject.
I love babies. It’s sort of a Christian thing. Their intrinsic dignity allows, even compels us to ask them the come to mass. For of such is the kingdom of God made.
…would you enjoy a crying baby in a movie you were enjoying? 🙂
Ahh. New topic. Now we are moving from loving (a theological virtue) to enjoying (a contemporary priority when paying for an experience)

No. I would not enjoy a crying baby in that setting. But that is not a community event. It is targeted for paying customers. Few are the babies with the wherewithall to gain admittance to such a venue. In that case, I could request a refund and try again later. Complain to management. Have the caregivers banned forevermore. Write a letter to Congress outlawing such behavior. O so many choices.

Don’t you love these discussion 👍
 
I would hope that showing respect in the Lord’s house in his presence would merit at least as much respect as in a movie venue? 🤷
 
I would hope that showing respect in the Lord’s house in his presence would merit at least as much respect as in a movie venue? 🤷
Non sequitur.

I think that comparing the Mass to attendance at a movie is prima facie evidence that the person seriously comparing the two has no idea what Mass is about.
 
I would hope that showing respect in the Lord’s house in his presence would merit at least as much respect as in a movie venue? 🤷
Yes. Most families I know with young children (mine included) never step inside a movie house with small children. Apparently that is whats happening. Is that really want we want to happen? Drive away families from church?
 
Yes. Most families I know with young children (mine included) never step inside a movie house with small children. Apparently that is whats happening. Is that really want we want to happen? Drive away families from church?
I have to agree in part. If parents can’t control their children … or rather, if *enough *parents can’t control their children … then we are going to have to ban them.

Remember, there was a time when you could take your young son to the airport and sit at a gate and watch the planes come and go and recite what each kind of plane was; now it’s suspicious behavior, and you can’t even get through to where you can see the planes up close. It’s the same thing with the trend of restaurants and other places that actually do ban children under a certain age. It’s because more and more parents aren’t acting like parents anymore. And it reaches a point where something’s gotta give.

It’s the same with the early years of cell phones and beepers. You’re watching the movie *Gandhi *and a beeper goes off and some Indian guy leaps up and shuts it off as he rushes back up the aisle. We tolerated it, because we all figured he was a doctor on call. But when cell phones started becoming a routine disturbance at the symphony hall, we realized that anyone with enough money could afford to have one, and we enacted rules about turning them off or putting them on vibrate, and society grew a backbone and outright judged people who obliviously allowed their personal lives to hijack everyone else’s piano sonata.

When it comes to Holy Mass, why is it all of a sudden unreasonable to expect Mom to stay home with a colicky 2-month-old? Because the 2-month-old has a right to be there or else the screamer will be denied the grace of God? And we’re all supposed to pretend it’s all for the better if she sits in the front pew with the equivalent of an air horn or else she’ll boycott her salvation? I don’t think so. That’s why we have dispensations from holy obligations under such circumstances.

If you want to say that vincibly oblivious parents with effectively unparented, undisciplined, and out-of-control children must be allowed at mass simply because religion trumps even the most basic of social mores, then you have to say restaurants must permit disruptive customers because people gotta eat, and eventually all of society must bow to the culpable and obstinate indiscretions of anyone and everyone who chooses not to inform themselves about reasonable standards of behavior in public in the falsely and self-righteously applied names of Christian charity and tolerance. That is not the kind of world I want to live in, because at that point it’s no longer a “society”.
 
I have to agree in part. If parents can’t control their children … or rather, if *enough *parents can’t control their children … then we are going to have to ban them.
I have a better proposal. How about banning people who hate children.
Remember, there was a time when you could take your young son to the airport and sit at a gate and watch the planes come and go and recite what each kind of plane was; now it’s suspicious behavior, and you can’t even get through to where you can see the planes up close. It’s the same thing with the trend of restaurants and other places that actually do ban children under a certain age. It’s because more and more parents aren’t acting like parents anymore. And it reaches a point where something’s gotta give.
Its a sad place you live in, no wonder you resent kids. Our airport has publicly accessible viewing decks. Of course parking costs an arm and a leg, but hey, they viewing deck is free.
It’s the same with the early years of cell phones and beepers. You’re watching the movie *Gandhi *and a beeper goes off and some Indian guy leaps up and shuts it off as he rushes back up the aisle. We tolerated it, because we all figured he was a doctor on call. But when cell phones started becoming a routine disturbance at the symphony hall, we realized that anyone with enough money could afford to have one, and we enacted rules about turning them off or putting them on vibrate, and society grew a backbone and outright judged people who obliviously allowed their personal lives to hijack everyone else’s piano sonata.
Cellphone with sound on = children
Wow, times have really changed. Back in the day, children were treated like human beings. Today, they’re nothing more than cellphones you forgot to put on vibrate.
When it comes to Holy Mass, why is it all of a sudden unreasonable to expect Mom to stay home with a colicky 2-month-old? Because the 2-month-old has a right to be there or else the screamer will be denied the grace of God? And we’re all supposed to pretend it’s all for the better if she sits in the front pew with the equivalent of an air horn or else she’ll boycott her salvation? I don’t think so. That’s why we have dispensations from holy obligations under such circumstances.
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 19:13-14[/BIBLEDRB]
If you want to say that vincibly oblivious parents with effectively unparented, undisciplined, and out-of-control children must be allowed at mass simply because religion trumps even the most basic of social mores, then you have to say restaurants must permit disruptive customers because people gotta eat, and eventually all of society must bow to the culpable and obstinate indiscretions of anyone and everyone who chooses not to inform themselves about reasonable standards of behavior in public in the falsely and self-righteously applied names of Christian charity and tolerance. That is not the kind of world I want to live in, because at that point it’s no longer a “society”.
You have to look at the plank in your eye. You didn’t exactly exude charity in your post. Reform yourself before reforming others.
 
Yes, Our Lord did say ‘Let the little children come to me’, but three points.
  1. He was not in the Temple or synagogue at the time, and so was not saying they had to keep quiet and still in His presence for an hour. We are told He took them in His arms and blessed them - nothing about having to sit down quietly while the grown-ups talked.
  2. We do let them come, when they are baptised.
  3. Evidently the Church does not interpret this verse in the same way as some posters, in that attendance at Mass is not required of young children. Do you argue with the Church’s interpretation of the Scriptures?
 
Since this topic has come up before (back in 2010), I share wioth you what I said then:

Re: Disruptive little ones at Mass…

After reading most of the comments, allow me to share from the Priest/Celebrants persepective, by using an example from the past:

At one of the parishes where I was an associate, the church itself was built in the round and the acoustics were excellent…I could speak without a microphone and be heard quite well wherever a parishoner sat. At dinner one night the 4 priests assigned began to talk about a problem: all of us noticed that at the 9:30am Sunday Mass, it was getting harder and harder to concentrate and make ourselves heard. This Mass was regularly attended by families with young children. That by itself was not bad, but we all noticed something interesting, when one toddler acted up and started crying, like magic, others started in as well and soon the noise was overwhelming…making it really hard for us to concentrate and make ourselves be heard over the dinn. The other thing we noticed is that parents seemed to be loathe to take the kids out for a few moments and calm them down.

After getting complaints from other parishoners, we decided to address the issue and then agonized for weeks on the wording as well as passing it by other parents that we knew. Ultimately we printed and announced the following: it was sometimes so noisy that we had trouble concentrating and leading prayer and then we simply mentioned it was OK for parents to take their kids out for a few moments to calm them down and then come back.

You would have thought that we had cursed at them and called the parents rotten as we recieved numerous irate comments from them: “you don’t like children,” “how dare you say this,” “who are you to tell us what to do,” etc. etc. None of these (and other) comments were true, but we had to take the flak and then a strange thing happened: People started to take their kids out when they acted up and the problem was solved.

The problem is not easy to solve and I think the answer is different for each parish!
 
Since this topic has come up before (back in 2010), I share wioth you what I said then:

Re: Disruptive little ones at Mass…

After reading most of the comments, allow me to share from the Priest/Celebrants persepective, by using an example from the past:

At one of the parishes where I was an associate, the church itself was built in the round and the acoustics were excellent…I could speak without a microphone and be heard quite well wherever a parishoner sat. At dinner one night the 4 priests assigned began to talk about a problem: all of us noticed that at the 9:30am Sunday Mass, it was getting harder and harder to concentrate and make ourselves heard. This Mass was regularly attended by families with young children. That by itself was not bad, but we all noticed something interesting, when one toddler acted up and started crying, like magic, others started in as well and soon the noise was overwhelming…making it really hard for us to concentrate and make ourselves be heard over the dinn. The other thing we noticed is that parents seemed to be loathe to take the kids out for a few moments and calm them down.

After getting complaints from other parishoners, we decided to address the issue and then agonized for weeks on the wording as well as passing it by other parents that we knew. Ultimately we printed and announced the following: it was sometimes so noisy that we had trouble concentrating and leading prayer and then we simply mentioned it was OK for parents to take their kids out for a few moments to calm them down and then come back.

You would have thought that we had cursed at them and called the parents rotten as we recieved numerous irate comments from them: “you don’t like children,” “how dare you say this,” “who are you to tell us what to do,” etc. etc. None of these (and other) comments were true, but we had to take the flak and then a strange thing happened: People started to take their kids out when they acted up and the problem was solved.

The problem is not easy to solve and I think the answer is different for each parish!
The difference between what these priests in your story did and the tone of the OP is one of charitableness and a desire to help the situation not an attempt to scold, humiliate etc. These priests did not object to the Mass being filled with families and young children. They tried their best to help the parents by letting them know in a charitable way that it was OK to take their children out. Some parents misunderstood their intent. So what? People started taking their childen out when they acted up and the problem was solved. Posters here are not disagreeing with it being OK to take your children out when they start acting up.
 
You would have thought that we had cursed at them and called the parents rotten as we recieved numerous irate comments from them: “you don’t like children,” “how dare you say this,” “who are you to tell us what to do,” etc. etc. None of these (and other) comments were true, but we had to take the flak and then a strange thing happened: People started to take their kids out when they acted up and the problem was solved.
Exactly. Since I have an issue with vincibly oblivious parents, therefore according to other people I must hate all children. That ridiculous conclusion is what I had in mind when I said toleration is useless these days. Your priest intervened and the problem was solved.

Although that didn’t stop the adult teenagers from complaining like teenagers!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top