Scriptural Challenge: Pray to someone other than God

[IesusDeus]

I need to respond to this challenge:
“Show me scripturally where we can ask someone in heaven to pray for us”

 

[Sgt_Sweaters]

If your challenger is looking for a single verse to answer his challenge, then he won’t get it. That sort of demand is unreasonable and foolish. But, there is enough scripture to support our belief, and support it strongly.

Read:
Praying to Saints
Intercession of the Saints

 

[But_for_Grace]

This site also provides much scriptual support for this practice.

Saints and Intercessory Prayer

 

[marty1818]

IesusDeus:

I need to respond to this challenge:
“Show me scripturally where we can ask someone in heaven to pray for us”

You can also say to them “Show me scripturally where it says everything must be found in scripture.”

I heard that somewhere from an apologist… don’t remember who though.

matthew

 

[promethius]

Simple actually really. and there most certainly IS a single section of the bible which shows that there is a communion of saints alive after their “death” on earth.

Look to the sermon on the mount section of the Gospels. Christ Himself converses openly with moses and elijah, both of whom are dead. Christ never condemns asking others to pray for us, or asking the saints in heaven (who are most certainly NOT dead but truly are alive in Christ) to pray for us as well. Instead of condemning the practice, Christ shows us a very clear example of doing that precisely as Christ held commune with the saints. Hence, point out to your protestant friends that their silly challenge simply points to the fact that if they think that conversing with the saints is wrong, then they condemn Christ Himself as a sinner. Since we know that Christ is holy and utterly without sin, we know that the communion of the saints must be acceptable and exist.

 

[Sgt_Sweaters]

promethius:

Simple actually really. and there most certainly IS a single section of the bible which shows that there is a communion of saints alive after their “death” on earth.

Look to the sermon on the mount section of the Gospels. Christ Himself converses openly with moses and elijah, both of whom are dead. Christ never condemns asking others to pray for us, or asking the saints in heaven (who are most certainly NOT dead but truly are alive in Christ) to pray for us as well. Instead of condemning the practice, Christ shows us a very clear example of doing that precisely as Christ held commune with the saints. Hence, point out to your protestant friends that their silly challenge simply points to the fact that if they think that conversing with the saints is wrong, then they condemn Christ Himself as a sinner. Since we know that Christ is holy and utterly without sin, we know that the communion of the saints must be acceptable and exist.

Thanks for pointing that out. Slight correction, though. The sermon on the mount was simply that, a sermon. (Mt 5-7) What you are referring to is the Transfiguration, which happened in the presence of only the three disciples.(Mt 17, Mk 9, Lk 9)

 

[michaelgazin]

IesusDeus:

I need to respond to this challenge:
“Show me scripturally where we can ask someone in heaven to pray for us”

Rev. 5:8 “And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints”

1. These elders are in heaven
2. They come bearing the prayers of others
3. How in the world(or heaven) can they have prayers of others
4. Why does not only Jesus have and know these prayers?

Paul says in 1 Tim. 2:1 “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men”

We know intercession is good and pleasing to God, therefore, the burden of proof lies on you to show that death separates our communication, and ends the possibility for intercession.

Peace,
Michael

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Sgt Sweaters:

Thanks for pointing that out. Slight correction, though. The sermon on the mount was simply that, a sermon. (Mt 5-7) What you are referring to is the Transfiguration, which happened in the presence of only the three disciples.(Mt 17, Mk 9, Lk 9)

Of course, they will most likely try to point out that Elijah never died. But then you can still say that Moses did and we know this because we are told that Satan fought with Michael the Archangel over his body.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

michaelgazin:

We know intercession is good and pleasing to God, therefore, the burden of proof lies on you to show that death separates our communication, and ends the possibility for intercession.

True. I had someone quote Psalm 115 to me to try to say that the dead can’t pray for us (it says “the dead do not praise the Lord”). But that was the only line he quoted, and a few lines later it says “We praise the Lord now and forever”, clearly implying that for eternity (and you’ve got to be dead for at least *some *of eternity!) we praise the Lord and offer him prayers.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[E.E.N.S]

Does the “challenger” believe in the Trinity?

 

[buffalo]

Intercessory Prayer of Saints
Rom 15:30 - join me by your prayers to God on my behalf
Col 4:3, 1Thess 5:25 - pray for us
2Thess 1:11 - we always pray for you
2Thess 3:1 - finally, brothers, pray for us
Eph 6:18-19 - making supplication for all the saints & for me
Tob 12:12 - angel presents Tobit & Sarah’s prayer to God
Ps 148 - David calls upon angels
Zech 1:12 - angel intercedes for Jerusalem
Mk 12:25, Mt 22:30 - men in heaven are as the angels
Rev 5:8 - those in heaven offer prayers of the holy ones to God
*Saints dead, prayer is necromancy (Dt 18:10-11)
Mk 12:26-27 - he is God of the living, not of the dead
Mk 9:4 - Jesus seen conversing with Elijah & Moses
Lk 9:31 - Elijah & Moses aware of earthly events
Rev 6:9-11 - martyrs under altar want earthly vindication
Heb 12:1 - we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses
Lk 16:19-30 - departed rich man intercedes for brothers
Rev 20:4 - saw the souls of those who had been beheaded
Wis 3:1-6 - the souls of the just are in the hand of God
2Macc 15:7-16 - the departed Onias & Jeremiah pray for the Jews
Jas 5:16 prayers of righteous man
1 Cor. 13:12 - I shall understand fully
1 John 4: 20-21 - whoever loves God must love his brother
1 Cor 12:21 - parts of Christ’s Body cannot say to other parts, “I do not need you”.

 

[IesusDeus]

Thanks all.

Yes, he believes in the Trinity.