Scriptural evidence for Once-saved-always-saved?

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Hi Paul. Sorry it took so long to reply.

I’ve heard references to “Love” as being supreme, and to be honest with you, I’m not sure how this even effects the understanding of OSAS. I’m inclined to believe that this is a misplaced argument.

Love is intimately linked with salvation, and of the three gifts from God (faith, hope, and love), love is supreme above all others. There is no argument against OSAS because of this fact.

Indeed, without love, faith would never be extended as a gift to man, and therefore no salvation would be possible. God commended His love toward us, in that while we were still dead in our sins, Christ died for us. How incredible is His love!!

Hope you’re having a good day! 👍
This is not about God’s love for us, but about our love of God and Neighbor. This is clearly required to go to heaven. Have you never read Matt 19: 16-19 or Matthew 25: 31-46? These show that love of God and neighbor is required to get to heaven.

Further, if you need to love to get to heaven, then OSAS is false, because Love is not a one time event…
 
Very good, then where does it show free will? Please, don’t show us the will being exercised because of an outside force by man. Show specific instances where man is not influenced by any outside force to choose evil over good.
Influence isn’t an issue. We have all kinds of influences. Free will is the ability to freely choose between options given those influences. We have temptations influencing us to do evil and our consciences influencing us to do good. We have the ability to choose between the two, that is free will.
For instance, we see the choice before us in Matthew 7: 24-27:

24 “Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock.
25 The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on rock.
26 And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand.
27 The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined.”
I don’t believe ALL things are predetermined. That’s fatalism. We are commanded to do things by God because we have been freed to live and serve Him. You can command the unsaved to live for God, but they will not do it. Indeed, they CANNOT do it, nor do they want to.
You are incorrectly supposing that some people never have the option of finding God. This is not scriptural . Jesus said that when he was raised, ** all **men would be called to him.
You are right, God gave us many gifts, but you have to prove that He gave us “free” will. He gave us a will, and He gave us life. Our lives and wills are to serve Him. That means it is NOT free.
No, we have the choice whether to serve him. If not, why would he have spent 3 years preaching that we need to do God’s will and why would the Apostles devote space in virtually every epistle describing how to live the Christian life, if there was not choice?
That is not even in question. But, the Bible clearly tells us that our wills are in bondage to Satan. They are NOT free.
Where does the Bible say that our wills are in bondage to Satan? This is simply not the case.
 
Hi again, Paul

Yes, I agree with you that God will reward those that do good works. But this is directed to the believer. God only has one “reward” for those who are not believers, and that is hell. God has another reward for believers, and that is the kingdom of God. Once we are there, we will be judged according to the other things that we have done.
You are assuming that you get to heaven based on belief alone and that once there, you get additional rewards based on what you do. Show us where it says that in scripture.

i’ve already shown you in the post above that you need to do works of love to get to heaven.
 
1 Peter
Chapter 5

1 So I exhort the presbyters 2 among you, as a fellow presbyter and witness to the sufferings of Christ and one who has a share in the glory to be revealed.
Tend the flock of God in your midst, (overseeing) not by constraint but willingly, as God would have it, not for shameful profit but eagerly.
Do not lord it over those assigned to you, but be examples to the flock.
And when the chief Shepherd is revealed, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. 3
4 Likewise, you younger members, 5 be subject to the presbyters. And all of you, clothe yourselves with humility in your dealings with one another, for: “God opposes the proud but bestows favor on the humble.”
So humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time.
Cast all your worries upon him because he cares for you.
Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for (someone) to devour.
Resist him, steadfast in faith, knowing that your fellow believers throughout the world undergo the same sufferings.
The God of all grace who called you to his eternal glory through Christ (Jesus) will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you after you have suffered a little.
To him be dominion forever. Amen.
I write you this briefly through Silvanus, 6 whom I consider a faithful brother, exhorting you and testifying that this is the true grace of God. Remain firm in it.
The chosen one 7 at Babylon sends you greeting, as does Mark, my son.
Greet one another with a loving kiss. Peace to all of you who are in Christ.

If once saved is always saved then why would Peter write this?
Because God called us to fight, he didn’t call us to win the battle. Some battles we will not win, but the war belongs to God.
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JustaServant:
Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for (someone) to devour.
Resist him, steadfast in faith, knowing that your fellow believers throughout the world undergo the same sufferings.
The God of all grace who called you to his eternal glory through Christ (Jesus) will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you after you have suffered a little.
To him be dominion forever. Amen.

**If Once saved is always saved then why would we be concerned about the devil? If we could not fall, why would we have to resist him? **
If you are saved, you can still be effected by the devil. But you must be sober and vigilant. This is not the same as being saved, nor does it add to our salvation. Salvation is something that God does. We do everything else that we are commanded to do.
 
Indeed, without love, faith would never be extended as a gift to man, and therefore no salvation would be possible. God commended His love toward us, in that while we were still dead in our sins, Christ died for us. How incredible is His love!!
How do Baptists understand the use of the term “Book of Life” throughout Scripture? If someone’s name gets into it, he’s forever saved, correct?
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How do Baptists understand the use of the term “Book of Life” throughout Scripture? If someone’s name gets into it, he’s forever saved, correct?
Hi Marco. Yes, I guess that would be accurate. But how do you know if your name is in the Book of Life? As a Catholic, how do you answer that?

As a Baptist, I believe that the answer really, really, really, is the same as for a Catholic. Let’s see…😉
 
James 2:17-20:

**Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

You believe that God is one; You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?**

The demons do not have efficacious (effective) faith. Why is that? They do not obey God (duh!). So while faith and obedience might not be the same thing, faith at least implies obedience. James views faith as a good thing (“you do well”) but not complete in and of itself. He writes in chapter 2, verse 22:

You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.

And yet, that last bit (works) is troublesome, because Paul also writes in Romans 4:3:

For what does the Scripture say? 'ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.'

Abraham was credited as righteous even before he had done anything righteous, because he had faith in the Lord. James says of this in chapter 2, verse 21:
**
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?**

So we have an apparent contradiction, but I don’t think it has to be.

What do we know so far? We know that to be pleasing to God and to effect salvation, the faith must be of an active quality. We already know that it is possible to have faith that is of an inactive quality. What does James think of this faith? Well, in his opinion it is dead. He does not dismiss faith out of hand (“you do well”) but he does caution that inactive faith will not avail us. In chapter 2, verse 14 he writes:

What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

James does not seem to think so. And as interesting as what he says is, it is almost equally interesting what he does not say. He does not say that these people of dead, workless faith do not have faith. He clearly and categorically states that their faith is ineffective, dead, useless, not pleasing to God. The intellectual assent is right on the mark, but if we do not wish to join the demons in Hell we must do a little better than that.

How does all this match up with what Paul writes? Paul writes that a man is justified by his faith. We see this most clearly in Ephesians 2:8-9:

**For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.**

So we may safely conclude that our salvation is not a result of what works we perform. Now pair this with what we learned from James. James says it is indeed possible to have faith that is displeasing to God; this faith is faith that does not work. It is a dead and empty faith, and it is not saving faith. So we know the faith Paul speaks of cannot be an intellectual assent. It must be a true commitment to God, and it must produce works. Lack of works is indicative of the faith that does not save.

In verse 10 Paul goes on:

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

So there are works that are pleasing to God; these are works done in faith. They make the faith that justified complete, and they prove the faith an active and robust one.

But here we encounter a dilemma. Works are not necessary justification, as we have established. And yet it is possible to 1) have faith and 2) do no good works. And this faith is displeasing to God. The implication is that it does not save.

But we are not saved by works! Ephesians 2:8-10 makes this abundantly clear.

But let’s look at Paul’s statement a little more carefully. For by grace you have been saved through faith. We see Abraham was justified his faith, but also that he was later justified by his works, and that his works made his faith complete. So was it his justification that was incomplete beforehand? I doubt it; that sounds rather like ‘half-pregnant’. I believe his justification was complete but ongoing, something that was not over in a flash but necessary to continually reaffirm. The works prior to his (or anyone else’s) justification (that is, first instance of faith) are displeasing to God, because they treat God like a debtor instead of a beloved Father. Not so works done after. Works done after complete faith, and together with faith, save. James asks if that man’s faith will save him, and if it is dead it will not, but if it is alive, surely it will, and if it is alive, it will produce good works. So for our initial justification we need faith that is alive. After that, well…Romans 11:22 reads:

Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Hi Bird and Bee,

I liked what you wrote. I don’t see anything really wrong with it. 👍
 
Continuation:

To put this verse in context, Paul is speaking of the Jews falling into apostacy and apparently being abandoned by God. God extends his covenant with them to the Gentiles, and the terms of this new covenant are different from the last. Paul warns, though, that the Jews in abandoning him were also abandoned, cut off from his good graces. Paul warns us to that if we do not continue in his good graces the same will happen to us. I think the verse is pretty clearly talking about being cut off from salvation here, but I’ve had Christians argue fiercely with me over it, insisting that the context somehow changes the meaning. I don’t see that it does. The Jews as a people were cut off; if they are saved, it will not be through Judaism. The Gentiles were ‘grafted on’; if they fall into apostacy, the same fate awaits them. But I suggest reading the whole chapter for yourself and making up your own mind.
Hi again, Bird and Bee.

I think that what you have written is really pretty good. I would only say that I would have to agree with the other Christians that the context must be maintained in showing that this is not speaking of individual salvation, but corporate salvation.

Let me see if I can explain. Notice in Romans 9:6-7 how Paul explains that salvation is no longer found in a specific ethnic group or nation. He says that it is open to the whole world. “For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”

So we see that instead of this PHYSICAL nation of Israel, and Jewish people, that God was establishing that His Church was made up of a SPIRITUAL seed. The seed was still from Father Abraham, but instead of the PHYSICAL people of Israel, it was going to come through a SPRITUAL genealogy.

Paul said earlier in Romans 4:3, “For the promise, that [Abraham] should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.”

Again, in Galatians 3:16, Paul states, “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.” And Paul concludes the 3rd chapter of Galatians with this point: “And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

It is clear that salvation is found in being a spiritual descendant of Abraham through the SPIRITUAL lineage of Christ. It is clear that Paul was saying what he had said several times in his epistles: the nation of Israel has been placed by the side in favor of the spiritual seed of Abraham through Christ, who was the rightful heir of promise.
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BirdandBee:
In conclusion, what I get from all this is while the initial point of justification is faith, the point of coming to faith in Christ, and no works preceding that faith in Christ may merit the justification, afterwards that faith must continually be reaffirmed – it must stay alive. “He who endures to the end will be saved” (Mt. 24: 13). You must continually be justified; otherwise, your faith is proved incomplete. I think this is why Paul speaks in the past tense. Faith is what initially justifies us apart from any works of our own (which are done outside faith and thus displeasing to God), but faithful cooperation with Christ (i.e. good works) is necessary our whole life after, and it is after that our good works become, not just pleasing, but necessary to God for justification, as a continual reaffirmation of the faith we placed in him when we were first justified.

So there you go. That’s my essay.
Well, I think you’ve done a great job. It would seem that you and I agree on nearly every point - with the exception of what I pointed out. Thanks for sharing that with me. I pray that God will continue to enlighten both you and I regarding His Scriptures.
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BirdandBee:
OSAS really goes back to predestination with you, I think, PEPCIS. In my reading of the Bible I see that there are actions God could not have directly ordained - there must be another cause besides God, or we make God corrupt.
I agree with that. Most of my Calvinist brothers get mad at me because I refuse to accept that God ordains every single miniscule event in the universe, including when I pick my nose!!! I don’t believe that. However, I do believe that there are key events that cannot be changed. For a prime example, we can think of Christ’s death on the cross, and His resurrection. Or, for another example, the salvation of the elect.
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BirdandBee:
I also see that God works through us in interesting ways, and the intersection between his will and our will is perhaps an academic matter more than anything else.
Well, it certainly is academic. But I don’t know about you, but I feel a very real presence of God in my life, and I know that as I acknowledge Him, He directs my path. (Proverbs 3:6)
 
God gave us a will … Before he regenerates us, we are captured by the Devil and serve him, therefore, our wills are NOT free. …But then a wondrous thing occurs, and we are saved by God, taken out of the domain of the Devil, and now we live in God’s glorious kingdom. Our wills still are not free, but they are oriented toward Him, instead of toward the Devil.
Im confused. We start out without a free will which is oriented toward sin and then a glorious thing happens: we still dont have a free will, but now we are oriented toward God. Is that it? And the fact that Christians still sin is…what? God’s will? If its not our will, who’s is it?
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Philthy:
. . . sin remains lurking and we must avail ourselves of the grace God provides to withstand its temptations (1 Cor 10:13).
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PEPCIS:
Of course we must. No one is saying that we shouldn’t. But availing ourselves of God’s grace, as you point out in 1 Cor. 10:13, is a grace that God gives to all believers that prevents them from “disinheriting” the kingdom of God. Paul says that God will give us grace so that even when we are tempted, He “. . .will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.”
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TheWhoFreak:
You aren’t taking into account the possibility of giving in to temptation.
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PEPCIS:
Of course I am. It’s exactly what I DID say.
No you aren’t, and that isnt at all what you said! You explicitly said that rather than “giving in to temptation”, believers are graced by God in a manner that ***prevents ***them from disinheriting the kingdom of God.You arent merely saying that God provides a way out so that they MAY(see the verse) be able to bear it, you are claiming that God prevents it so that they WILL bear it. And therefore, if God PREVENTS it, as you say, then there is no possibility of them “giving in to temptation” in the manner that TheWhoFreak suggested. So in fact you are not taking into account the possibility of giving in to temptation becasuse it is mutually exclusive with God preventing a fall. . Care to try again?
 
Hi Philthy,

Just wanted to let you know that it may take me a day or two to get back to you. I’ll try not to take too long. Thanks. You’ve got some excellent questions, and it appears I didn’t explain myself well enough!!

See ya soon. 🙂
 
Hi Philthy,

Just wanted to let you know that it may take me a day or two to get back to you. I’ll try not to take too long. Thanks. You’ve got some excellent questions, and it appears I didn’t explain myself well enough!!

See ya soon. 🙂
No problem! Thanks for the heads up. He that unites is greater than that which divides was the important part anyhow…

Blessings!
 
Hi, MarcoPolo,

After reading your post … I was suddenly overcome with inspiration… 😃
How do Baptists understand the use of the term “Book of Life” throughout Scripture? If someone’s name gets into it, he’s forever saved, correct?
White Out or Liquid Paper was not invented during the days of Calvin… so back then for those guys who fooled everyone (except Calvin and God) a simple line through the name was enough! 😃 Since the invention of these two products - St. Peter’s book has looked a lot neater…👍

Sorry… I could not resist! 😃

Have a great day.
 
Hi Marco. Yes, I guess that would be accurate. But how do you know if your name is in the Book of Life? As a Catholic, how do you answer that?

As a Baptist, I believe that the answer really, really, really, is the same as for a Catholic. Let’s see…😉
We have hope and moral certitude. I only asked because there are Scriptures that speak of God blotting a name out of the Book of Life.
 
Hi Marco. Yes, I guess that would be accurate. But how do you know if your name is in the Book of Life? As a Catholic, how do you answer that?

As a Baptist, I believe that the answer really, really, really, is the same as for a Catholic. Let’s see…😉
I’ll give you a different Catholic answer. We don’t know if we are in the book of life until we die and are judged. We believe that if we die in the state of grace that we will eventually go to heaven, although we may have to spend time in the purifying fires of prugatory. To die in the state of Grace, you must be baptised and then do God’s will by refraining from any mortal sins after that. If we do commit a mortal sin (a serious sin that we knowingly commit even though we know it will separate us from God), we fall from the state of grace. However, through the mercy of God, we can be reconciled through the sacrament of reconciliation by confessing to a priest, repenting and doing the prescribed pennance if we are truly contrite.

Our job on earth is not to worry about getting to heaven. It is to do the will of God by loving him with all our heart, all our strength and all our mind and to love our neighbor as our selves. If we do this, we trust that God will judge us appropriately.
 
Hi, PaulC

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head with this response… 👍

From what I have seen it is so easy to move from concerns about the Book of Life to Predestination … and then wind up like Calvin - totally absorbed into wondering if he was saved. :eek: The only balancing Calvin seemed to have was in an apparent knowledge :rolleyes: of who wasn’t saved! :eek:

Loving God with all of our heart and our neighbor as ourselves the ways that are given to us by Jesus in Mark 12:30-31 (that He combined together and quoted from Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and Leviticus 19:18). This is the response God expects from us…both in season and out of season (2Tim 4:2).
I’ll give you a different Catholic answer. We don’t know if we are in the book of life until we die and are judged. We believe that if we die in the state of grace that we will eventually go to heaven, although we may have to spend time in the purifying fires of prugatory. To die in the state of Grace, you must be baptised and then do God’s will by refraining from any mortal sins after that. If we do commit a mortal sin (a serious sin that we knowingly commit even though we know it will separate us from God), we fall from the state of grace. However, through the mercy of God, we can be reconciled through the sacrament of reconciliation by confessing to a priest, repenting and doing the prescribed pennance if we are truly contrite.

Our job on earth is not to worry about getting to heaven. It is to do the will of God by loving him with all our heart, all our strength and all our mind and to love our neighbor as our selves. If we do this, we trust that God will judge us appropriately.
God bless
 
Hello Pepcis, I see the discussion is still on, same ole, same ole . how about if I try to answer your last question,realizing that I am not in the same league as you champion dart throwers;)
Yes, you are in the league of the faithful! Give praise to the Maker! 😃

Read Matt(16.24-27)Tho’ I know you have, forward and back,This quote from Jesus must be remembered about what it takes to be a disciple

Hi Carlan. Allow me to paste it here:

[SIGN]“Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”[/SIGN]
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Carlan:
He does’nt emphasize 'Faith alone thogh faith is certainly presumed and he does not emphasize ‘Faith and works’ though again works are clearly mentioned, what he requires are hearts changed and surrendered and submissive to the will of God . So I can see and understand that if Protestants were to pray and ponder Matt 16.24-27)they would not be so troubled about faith and works, OSAS, and other such. I’ll say again, Jesus requires us to have changed , surrendered and submissive hearts can’t get much clearer than that I’d say.:D:signofcross:Carlan
And I agree with you whole-heartedly. We shouldn’t emphasize one completely over the other.
 
"PEPCIS:
As I said above, there is no such thing as a will that is free. It is an illusion that man created because he believes he is master of his own destiny. Yet it is clear that millions and billions of those who have said that they are masters of their own destiny are on their way to hell. So much for being “master” of your destiny.
You say that man is not the master of his own destiny. Using this logic, you would be saying that it was God’s will for Hitler to do what he did.
I always find it curious when people tell me that “God gave us such a wonderful day!!”, and then in the next sentence claim that He did nothing to bring about the Hitlerian genocide. Let’s stop and examine that for a moment.

To begin with, I do not believe that God orchestrates the specifics of weather. I believe that He has installed a system of thermodynamics that governs how the air currents move, and that they move according to those laws. Yet it is still correct to state that “God gave us such a wonderful day!”

But what would you say if a Tornado destroyed your town? Would you then say “God gave us this terrible Tornado”? No, you probably wouldn’t. But it would be correct to state that “God gave us this terrible Tornado.” Not because He deliberately wanted to destroy your home, but because He is the one that instituted the laws of nature which make Tornadoes possible.

For the same token, it would not be a stretch to hear someone thank God for the opportunity that He gave them for a new job, or for the new baby that was just born. Yet when someone dies, or some serious accident comes along, the same forces of morality which brought about the good, are responsible for bringing about evil events in our lives. How quick we are to forget God’s providential hand.
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TheWhoFreak:
God has a plan for us. . .
If you are one of the elect, then we can be assured that He has a plan for us. “For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.” (Jer.29:11)
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TheWhoFreak:
. . . but He doesn’t force it on us. We have to be free to accept Him.
All the elect are freed to respond to Him.
PEPCIS said:
You really have to realign your thinking on this point. God controls so many events in our lives. How many times have you come through a close scrape with death, or accident, or some other event, and you looked back and attributed your safety to God’s provident hand in your life?
There are stories of men and women who tried to get to work at the World Trade Center on 911, but they could not because some “emergency” came up, or their transportation crapped out on them, or some other event came into their lives preventing them from going to work. Nearly ALL of these people state that they believe God intervened in their lives. Not all of these people are Christian, yet they clearly felt God’s hand controlling events in such a way as to keep them from harm that day.
If God could do such a minor thing as this, do you suppose He could also bring about the salvation of the elect?
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TheWhoFreak:
I see a problem. You are describing EVENTS that people are involved in, not the choices they make. If anything you just backed up my point that God can control our circumstances, but never our choices.

The criticism that you levelled against my statement was that God would not control us in any way as to influence our decisions. You stated: “If God controlled us in any sort of way, then Jesus’ work on the Cross was in vain.” I then gave you examples of how “God controlled us in [all] sort of way.”

So, it doesn’t matter that what I described is events, because God controls whatever He wants to, and if He changes events to change our decisions, or if His Holy Spirit speaks to our hearts and brings us to accept His Son as our Savior, it is all the same thing.
 
"PEPCIS:
Here’s the sad part: if left to his own free will, man would NEVER choose God. Paul tells us that to those men who are perishing, that the message of the gospel is nothing but foolishness to them. (1 Corinthians 1:18) Jesus tells us that everyone stands before God “condemned already”. (John 3:18)
So, by extension, man is born completely evil, because nothing that doesn’t have Christ can be good, and all good things come from God. That’s what your statement implies.
No, now you’re regurgitating what you heard others say about Calvinism. 😦

Man is not born “completely evil”, but he is born in sin, and every thing that he can do is never good enough for God, or to earn him salvation. Man’s righteousness is counted as filthy rags, according to God’s standards.

[SIGN]“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” (Isaiah 64:6)[/SIGN]

What this means is that even though man can do many good things, that none of those things is counted as “good” in the eyes of God. The ONLY truly good things emanate from God alone. That’s what my statement implies.
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TheWhoFreak:
I believe that we are born as sinful people, but as I’ve already shown, non-believers are readily capable of doing good (The difference between us and them is that we have a reason to do good, they don’t).
Actually, the only difference between us and them is that “. . .it is God which worketh in [us] both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Phil. 2:13) The actions can and may be the same, but it is the intent that changes. God changes us so that we do things from a different perspective, and for His will and pleasure, not for our own good.
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TheWhoFreak:
Case in point, Lance Armstrong, an agnostic, owns his own charity! He doesn’t have Christ, but he’s doing good. Hmmmm;)
Just put “good” in scare quotes, and it is accurate. 👍
 
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