Scriptural evidence for particular judgement

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A Protestant friend of mine insists that there is not a particular judgment. People are basically in a ‘holding pattern’ when they die (my analogy not hers) until the Rapture. I’m not sure, now that I think about it, if this ‘holding pattern’ is only for those going to heaven, or if it’s for those going to hell too. I didn’t clarify that with her.

Anyway, can someone help me with scriptural references that support particular judgment, and why these refer to particular judgment as opposed to the general judgement?

Thank you!
 
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LisaP:
A Protestant friend of mine insists that there is not a particular judgment. People are basically in a ‘holding pattern’ when they die (my analogy not hers) until the Rapture. I’m not sure, now that I think about it, if this ‘holding pattern’ is only for those going to heaven, or if it’s for those going to hell too. I didn’t clarify that with her.

Anyway, can someone help me with scriptural references that support particular judgment, and why these refer to particular judgment as opposed to the general judgement?

Thank you!
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Oh. Kind of like Luke 23:43, paraphrased to read:
“And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in a “holding pattern” until the Rapture”.

Peace in Christ…Salmon
 
LOL! That one got me tickled. 🙂

That was actually the only verse I could think of, but it was refuted for this reason: After Jesus’ resurrection, he mentions that he has not yet ‘ascended to the Father’, which implies the good thief could not have gone to heaven with Jesus yet - so he’s in a ‘holding pattern’. So, her church interprets that verse in Luke to mean - ‘today’ as in ‘on this day I’m telling you’ that you will be with me paradise. Not that ‘you will be in paradise with me today’.

I didn’t know how to counter that, especially with the statement by Jesus that he had not yet ascended. That one stumped me.
 
You could look at Sirach 11:26-28 (but this book is not accepted by many Protestants).

You could also try working with the parable of Lazarus and Dives (the rich man). The relatives that Dives is conerned with are still alive, and yet Lazarus and Dives are dead and in different places, so some type of judgment before the end of the world is envisioned. However, it could be objected that this is more than the story was designed to teach. Also, be prepared that your friend might say the story takes place after the rapture. But the story is really envisioned as before Jesus raises from the dead, I think, because of Jesus’s remarks about that.

Oh, I guess I have one more idea. Phillipians 1:23 or thereabouts has Paul talking like he would like to die and be with the Lord rather than sitting around here any longer. But he says no to that so that he can preach and stuff. I would feel like it was a ripoff if I died expecting to be with the Lord, but all I got was floating in nowhere soul sleep.
 
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LisaP:
A Protestant friend of mine insists that there is not a particular judgment. People are basically in a ‘holding pattern’ when they die (my analogy not hers) until the Rapture. I’m not sure, now that I think about it, if this ‘holding pattern’ is only for those going to heaven, or if it’s for those going to hell too. I didn’t clarify that with her.
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Actually, scriptural evidence for particular judgment is indirect. Jesus in Luke 23:43 tells the good thief :

** "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. **
Certainly paradise here is not some holding pattern but refers to heaven. The thief was even then already being rewarded for his faith.

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man suggests that after death, our actions in this life would be judged. Just look at the fate of the rich man after death, who, in suffering begged for a drop of water to relieve his unspeakable thirst. It certainly isn’t a holding area but it was clear the rich man had been judged and sent to his punishment.

Gerry 🙂
 
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LisaP:
A Protestant friend of mine insists that there is not a particular judgment. People are basically in a ‘holding pattern’ when they die (my analogy not hers) until the Rapture. I’m not sure, now that I think about it, if this ‘holding pattern’ is only for those going to heaven, or if it’s for those going to hell too. I didn’t clarify that with her.

Anyway, can someone help me with scriptural references that support particular judgment, and why these refer to particular judgment as opposed to the general judgement?

Thank you!
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“And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).
 
Mathetes007 said:
“And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).
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That passage has indeed been sometimes used to justify the doctrine of particular judgment. However, even the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia states that it is not clear if the writer of the passage really had in mind a form of judgment that is separate and distinct from the general judgment at the end of time.

Gerry 🙂
 
This passage speaks of Lazarus and the rich man who were both judged after death yet before the final judgement
**The Rich Man and Lazarus **

19“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30“ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”
 
Look to the transfiguration.

If Moses and Elijah are in a holding pattern, and not yet judged. Why would they be there?

Moses appears to be familiar with Elijah (who lived after him)
They both seem to know who Jesus is (who lived after both of them)

This shows that there must be an awareness of what is happening here in the afterlife. Not a suspended animation, or holding pattern.
Alternatively, what verses indicate there is NO particular judgement? Perhaps they are arguing from tradition. and we all know, the protestant traditions are as infallible as the bible 🙂
 
That is correct, Evan. This is why inferring the doctrine of particular judgment from scripture must be done indirectly.

Gerry 🙂
 
So, given the final judgement scene described in Matthew (the sheep and the goats), does this mean all those who were judged when they died and sent to hell, ‘come back up’ for the general judgement and then are sent back to hell? Those who are in heaven do the same (but are ‘sent back’ to heaven)?

Other than at the final judgement where we will have our glorifed bodies, I’m confused on the difference between the two?
 
What confuses you?

In the case of particular judgment, it appears the individual soul undergoes judgment and goes on to its reward, purgation, or punishment. In general judgment, for both the elect and the damned, their bodies will be finally reunited with their souls, and both body and soul, as one, will be judged, rewarded or punished. In this case, we would undergo two judgments. The main difference between the two, is that in the General or Final judgment, there will be no more purgatory. Only heaven and hell will remain as man’s final destination.

Gerry 🙂
 
Hello Lisa P.

Here are a few quotes from Jesus about particular judgement.

To see about forty more please visit WARNING! Jesus Does Not Forgive All

NAB JOH 5:27

“The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned.” NAB REV 22:12

“Remember, I am coming soon! I bring with me the reward that will be given to each man as his conduct deserves. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End! **Happy are they who wash their robes so as to have free access to the tree of life **and enter the city through its gates Outside are the dogs and sorcerers, the fornicators and murderers, the idol-worshipers and all who love falsehood.” NAB REV 2:22

“I mean to cast her down on a bed of pain; her companions in sin I will plunge into intense suffering unless they repent of their sins with her, and her children I will put to death. Thus shall all the churches come to know that I am the searcher of hearts and minds, and that I will give each of you what your conduct deserves.”

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
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RobedWithLight:
That passage has indeed been sometimes used to justify the doctrine of particular judgment. However, even the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia states that it is not clear if the writer of the passage really had in mind a form of judgment that is separate and distinct from the general judgment at the end of time.

Gerry 🙂
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It is true enough that Scripture is not outright explicit in this arena. But there is some good references:

“So we are always of good courage; we know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. We are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body” (2 Cor. 5:6-10).
 
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LisaP:
LOL! That one got me tickled. 🙂

That was actually the only verse I could think of, but it was refuted for this reason: After Jesus’ resurrection, he mentions that he has not yet ‘ascended to the Father’, which implies the good thief could not have gone to heaven with Jesus yet - so he’s in a ‘holding pattern’. So, her church interprets that verse in Luke to mean - ‘today’ as in ‘on this day I’m telling you’ that you will be with me paradise. Not that ‘you will be in paradise with me today’.
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Hi Lisa,

As far as your friends interpretation of “today”. On another thread about this quote, I mentioned your friend’s interpretation as “interesting”. However, another member here rightly pointed out to me that this particular interpretation does not work. You can go through the Gospels and see how many times our Lord says “Amen I say to you” or “verily, I say to you”. Never once does he say (in any context), “Amen I say to you today”.
 
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