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KathleenGee
Guest
Jerusha…
You just made a most profound and insightful reflection…God bless you!
You just made a most profound and insightful reflection…God bless you!
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TexanKnight
Guest
Exactly. If I had been formed in some pre-existence, there would be no need for me to be formed here. That is sorta like a “God Do-Over”.
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SteveVH
Guest
That actually wouldn’t be as bad as believing that you existed from eternity apart from God, that he had nothing to do with your initial existence, but that he took your eternal substance, whatever that is, and made you into what you are now. That is what they believe.
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Pepband_Mom
Guest
Amazing, the simplicity of your statement is of a transcendental beauty!I mistakenly yielded myself to LDS potters, who thought of themselves as gods. They tried to form me into an image of what they thought I was. It was an abomination, for I became what they actually were. They hated the image into which they had formed me, which was only an image of themselves. They smashed me to pieces.
I now allow the God of the Catholic Church to form me into an image which honors and refines what I truly am. and can be.
WOW, you just blew me away! :heaven:
Thank you - that is a forever quote!!!
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Jerusha
Guest
II Cor. 6:14 has a lot of meaning for me, as a result of my experiences
May be a bit harsh, to the best of LDS, but it works for me. Where I live right now has very few LDS (and a lot of Amish), and I am happy.
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May be a bit harsh, to the best of LDS, but it works for me. Where I live right now has very few LDS (and a lot of Amish), and I am happy.
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ParkerD
Guest
To the general reader:
As this thread winds down, a great thought to retain is that although Catholics don’t believe in “life before birth” for humankind, there are no doubt Catholics (Gerard Manley Hopkins, for one) who do believe that God is involved in shaping (or molding) a life. As this happens, what can also happen is that the Savior helps to leave the baggage behind that otherwise weighs one down, as He helps shape toward a “new creature” as Paul taught. That can be the baggage of hurt feelings, disappointments, distressful situations, resentments, vengeful feelings, self-doubt or self-criticism about past mistakes, or many other “baggage” items.
The Savior wants to lead a person toward inner peace. He will do this, if a follower follows His lead.
As this thread winds down, a great thought to retain is that although Catholics don’t believe in “life before birth” for humankind, there are no doubt Catholics (Gerard Manley Hopkins, for one) who do believe that God is involved in shaping (or molding) a life. As this happens, what can also happen is that the Savior helps to leave the baggage behind that otherwise weighs one down, as He helps shape toward a “new creature” as Paul taught. That can be the baggage of hurt feelings, disappointments, distressful situations, resentments, vengeful feelings, self-doubt or self-criticism about past mistakes, or many other “baggage” items.
The Savior wants to lead a person toward inner peace. He will do this, if a follower follows His lead.
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TexanKnight
Guest
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ParkerD
Guest
TexanKnight,
I see continual evidence of baggage that can never be let go of, so that would mean people are not experiencing becoming a “new creature”–it means they may hear the words, but it means they haven’t experienced the change in the heart.
I also see evidence that Latter-day Saint beliefs will always be portrayed incorrectly by those who have left it (however active they might have been at whatever point in their life), even though it would seem they could at least try to be correct. But I guess that is something that should be given up as impossible for them to do.
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batman1973
Guest
How exactly are they been portrayed incorrectly? Give proofs before you make such claims. Many of us former Mormons know your religion better than most current members. Blind faith and devotion to what has been clearly demononstrated and documented as a false faith only furthers the resolve of us who have had our eyes open to the truth to share that with those still enthralled with the false doctrines.TexanKnight,
I see continual evidence of baggage that can never be let go of, so that would mean people are not experiencing becoming a “new creature”–it means they may hear the words, but it means they haven’t experienced the change in the heart.
I also see evidence that Latter-day Saint beliefs will always be portrayed incorrectly by those who have left it (however active they might have been at whatever point in their life), even though it would seem they could at least try to be correct. But I guess that is something that should be given up as impossible for them to do.
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TexanKnight
Guest
TexanKnight,
I see continual evidence of baggage that can never be let go of, so that would mean people are not experiencing becoming a “new creature”–it means they may hear the words, but it means they haven’t experienced the change in the heart.
I see that mostly among LDS. I was unaware that you were given, by God, the authority to be a judge of people’s hearts. Could you please advise when God handed that responsibility to you?
I also see evidence that Latter-day Saint beliefs will always be portrayed incorrectly by those who have left it (however active they might have been at whatever point in their life), even though it would seem they could at least try to be correct. But I guess that is something that should be given up as impossible for them to do.:shrug
Actually, what you see is that we protray LDS beliefs very accurately. The problem is, in your ever-changing doctrine, it makes it a moving target. What I see is LDS misrepresenting their beliefs, their past beliefs and what their prophets have said, even though it would seem you could at least try to be truthful. But, I guess that is something that should be given up as impossible for them, and you, to do…
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Telstar
Guest
Parker,
I just have to ask, how many times have you read that chapter of John, yet you still don’t understand it? You were told what it means by someone that intentionally ignored its true meaning, in order to replace the historical teachings of Christianity and create his own. Sadly, you choose to believe that his new religious ‘inventions’ are correct. Joseph Smith chose many passages and phrases from the Bible to back up his reinvention of the meanings of God, salvation and every other teaching of Jesus. They were purposely meant to be the complete opposite of any historical Christian belief.
His reinventions came from his own mind. He was convinced that he was smarter than all Christians that ever existed (even Jesus), and was determined to prove it to the whole world, for his own personal glory. What he lacked was a humble and loving heart that was focused on God’s greater glory, instead of his own. He was just looking for the admiration of men. He wanted them to think that he was special, because he felt that he was being ‘persecuted’ by Christians that didn’t approve of his occult practices, that he used to hunt for earthly ‘treasure’. He wanted to take revenge on all of them for their constant disapproval and criticism of his nefarious ways of making money, which he made by cheating innocent people out of theirs. So, he decided to create his own religion and make it totally different from all Christianity.
Since his use of a peep-stone in his hat was the most frequent cause of his ridicule and rejection by many local Christians, he decided to turn that into the source of his ‘gift from God’, being a new ‘prophet’ that would become like a Pied Piper, who would lead so many good people away from God. That was his way of thumbing his nose at all of them. His tremendous ego was what drove him to do all that he did. But, all of his ‘beliefs’ were seriously flawed on purpose. Those beliefs continue in the LDS church to this day, and still reflect the serious flaws in his convoluted interpretations, that were created by him to achieve personal power and glory, in opposition to all forms of Christianity, that he hated with a passion.
I suggest you reread that chapter, without focusing on how much power and glory we might receive from God as a reward. Instead, I suggest reflecting on how much more we should all love God, Who sent us His Only Begotten Son to suffer and die a horrendous death, so we could finally find forgiveness for all our sins. He did it to reopen the Gates of Heaven, that were closed to all for thousands of years because of the sin of Adam & Eve. God fulfilled His promise to send us a Savior, so we could be reconciled with God and possess the true happiness of eternal life, that we were always meant to have, and could share His love in Heaven, forever.
That prayer is about the immense love that God has for man, not about our gaining power or glory in this life, or the next. They’re just two gifts that God will give us, **if **we persevere by living with His love in our hearts, until the end. Gaining power and glory weren’t the issue when Jesus prayed for us. His purpose was to pray for us to have true love for God, and for each other, in the same way the Father loves His Son, and the Son loves His Father, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Who is Love. As I’ve said before, God only wants us to obey His laws out of our love for Him, and not because of our expectation of rewards that we think we can ‘earn’ by doing it. Becoming one with God is to love Him with all our heart, as He loves us, and live our whole life just to be with Him.
All of those passages just reinforce my opinion that LDS only follow Jesus to gain personal glory, and the power to rule over others, forever. That’s what they expect as their payment for doing good deeds. I tend to believe that it’s more important for us to focus on loving God for Who He is, and thanking Him for what He’s already given to us. We owe Him that. We can never repay Him for all He does for us, every day. He doesn’t owe us anything more, no matter what we do. But, He freely gives us everything we need, because He loves us.
But, LDS seem to be more interested in increasing their own self worth, especially in the eyes of those around them. They only do things that they believe will lead to their ‘exaltation’, so they can receive more power and glory than others, in the next world. They do that by performing temple rituals and faithfully following the teachings of Joseph Smith, who convinced them that they could all become ‘gods’.
LDS don’t really seek salvation from God, like Christians do. They just look forward to getting their payment of exaltation, and becoming a god, as their reward for following ‘the law’. But, we can’t earn or bribe our way to Heaven, by offering God anything but our true love and devotion. That’s all He ever wants from any of us. All the good deeds in the world won’t be able to save us, if we don’t love God more than anything else in the world, including our own family.
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ParkerD
Guest
Batman,
I’ve gone through that kind of conversation about twenty or thirty times regarding the points that TexanKnight brought up. It is a revolving door that will always be there, but I’ve tried to do my part to let whatever reader was sincerely interested in the beliefs know the correct doctrine taught by Latter-day Saints, and also reminded that they can go to lds.org to learn about the doctrines that are taught.
A wish of peace to all readers.
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ParkerD
Guest
Testar,
The words of the intercessory prayer of the Savior, as recorded in John 17, are simple and precise. They don’t need “private interpretation”, nor to be explained away–nor do the words in the vision given to John and recorded in the book of Revelation. The words “eye hath not seen, nor ear heard” go along the same lines, in that the blessings of eternity are to be understood as spiritual blessings which the natural man and natural eyes will not be expecting.
A wish of peace to you–you’ll be fine, and I’m fine, and we have different expectations about eternity and neither need fear about it, at all.
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TexanKnight
Guest
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Pepband_Mom
Guest
"always be portrayed incorrectly!!!TexanKnight,
I see continual evidence of baggage that can never be let go of, so that would mean people are not experiencing becoming a “new creature”–it means they may hear the words, but it means they haven’t experienced the change in the heart.
I also see evidence that Latter-day Saint beliefs will always be portrayed incorrectly by those who have left it (however active they might have been at whatever point in their life), even though it would seem they could at least try to be correct. But I guess that is something that should be given up as impossible for them to do.
A song that comes to mind re: TK is: “Amazing Grace… was blind but now I see.”
MANY times posters including myself have listed 19th century LDS documents by name, date, page # pertaining to their history. These things speak for them selves but not available in the local LDS bookstore - why not? LDS take a real, honest** study of their history? In fact the LACK of study is what causes the acceptance of Mormonism in the first place. I studied the daylights out of Mormonism 30 years ago & actually got close to thinking about joining (sounded too good to be true) because of a very pushy former missionary boss & was amazed at what I found at the CORE. I still thank him for his determined attempts to convert me for over 10 years because it SO BACKFIRED!!
ParkerD please tell me* in all honesty* what is holy about what goes on in the temple:
the slitting gestures of one’s bowels & throat (an affront to the commandment thou shalt not kill)
the grips and oaths & godhood vignette (thou shalt not have strange gods before me)
the mockery of Catholics & Prots (thou shalt not bear false witness & love your neighbor as yourself)
It took but ONE, SIMPLE CONTRADICTION to clearly, cleanly tube Mormonism for me:
there is “no marriage” in heaven according to St Paul. One lives as the Angels.
I could not and cannot accept the Mormon belief of godhood & eternal sex in the afterlife as it is not true and it’s that simple Parker, to me it’s that simple - that is a falsehood.
Can GOD CONTRADICT His DECALOGUE (in the writings of Smith, etc.) and who He revealed Himself to be - the great I AM WHO AM - in the Holy Bible? Answer: HE CANNOT. Confusion is not of God. I CHANGETH NOT God says in OT.
Parker how can you deny or skirt your way around that? Much is at stake. We’ve dumped an avalanche of TRUTH at your feet. YOU my good man are in DENIAL - you and every single LDS member hunger for the inexhaustible grace, sheer joy & endless love that only the Triune God can shower on you.
The Way, the Truth, and the Life namely Christ: “the Word is God”, the great “I AM” (7 of them in John, 7 being the perfect #); the Christ of the most perfect 7th Covenant, the Sacrificial spotless Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world is waiting for you.
Please accept God’s free gift of grace & forgiveness & come home.
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batman1973
Guest
And, Parker, consider the words from Joseph’s own Book of Mormon:
" And if there were miracles wrought then, why has God ceased to be a God of miracles and yet be an unchangeable Being? And behold, I say unto you he changeth not; if so he would cease to be God; and he ceaseth not to be God, and is a God of miracles."
(Mormon 9:19 emph. mine)
The Mormon god changes his mind more often than I change my socks. (polygamy ok, then not, the design of your sacred under britches, the changes in your temple ceremony. Adam God, the list goes on ad nauseum).If there was even a shred of truth to your faith, then we have no God.
" And if there were miracles wrought then, why has God ceased to be a God of miracles and yet be an unchangeable Being? And behold, I say unto you he changeth not; if so he would cease to be God; and he ceaseth not to be God, and is a God of miracles."
(Mormon 9:19 emph. mine)
The Mormon god changes his mind more often than I change my socks. (polygamy ok, then not, the design of your sacred under britches, the changes in your temple ceremony. Adam God, the list goes on ad nauseum).If there was even a shred of truth to your faith, then we have no God.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
No doubt there are Catholics who believe God is involved in our lives, as this is the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Gerard Manley Hopkins isn’t some strange Catholic anomaly that you’ve stumbled on. He also isn’t a Mormon, though, I’m sure y’all have baptized him at least once.
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ParkerD
Guest
I became familiar with his poetry in high school, which would be in 1970 and thereafter. (It was not a “stumble”).
I appreciated it then, and don’t often think about it but occasionally do, and still appreciate it when I do, and I do find that it seems to be not consistent with the major messages that come across when people are “targeting” me, for example, in their words when they respond to a comment from me on this website.
Hopkins can just as much have had the Holy Ghost inspiring him as anyone else who is an honest seeker for truth and light, and no doubt he did–which is why I pointed out his poem about patience. I am not threatened by that, at all. Truth is truth and precious truths can be found in many places in this world–thankfully so.
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TexanKnight
Guest
And, as usual, Brother Parker dodges the issues brought by batman and me.
Still praying…
Still praying…
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zaffiroborant
Guest
That you find it inconsistent is not surprising, you don’t really seem to pay attention to what is being said by posters here. The only way you can come to some of the conclusions you do about what we believe is if you ignore what we are saying and read your own meaning into our words. This distorts what is being said, muddling it with your own preconceived notions about our beliefs. You won’t find any inconsistencies if you take the time to read and think about what others have to say. But you are free to ignore as you please:shrug:
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