Scriptural proof and explanation of Holy Orders, please

[PJM]

=spoiltvictorian;5959291]OK, I’ve read the articles and I have some more questions.

1. It seems that Lutheran orders are invalid, according to the CC, because a Catholic bishop didn’t lay hands on them. Do I understand that right?

It’s a bit deeper and more profound that what you describe.
**
The Seven Sacraments all instituted by Jesus Himself,** are ONLY available within the confines of the Catholic Church. This is because Christ mandated and gave ONLY to the Apostles and there heirs, within the confines of the CC, and having Direct Apolostolic Succession, the power to practice these grace giving gifts. So in this framework, yes, a Catholic Bishop alone [Pope and Cardinals are too Bishops] can and MAY ligitimately apply this Sacrament of Holy Orders.

1. According to the CC, is it the Words of Instution or the fact that an Ordered priest is present that brings Christ in the Flesh to Communion?

The role of the Ordained Priest is that of a conduit of God. For the Eucharist is From God, of God and for God. It is God Himself as “Sacrifice and Priest” that makes Christ Presence Really, Truly and Substanually Present. Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity

The process of Transunstanuation is actually two back to back, miracles.

Miracle One lies in the transformation of the priest [for the very instant of Transubstanuation] into “another Christ”. “Alter Christi”.

Miracle two is the transformation of ordinary bread and wine into the Actual Real Jesus Christ. What remains are what we describe as the “accidents” of what still looks to to be bread and wine, but are now IN SUBSTANCE Jesus Christ:thumbsup:

1. I read somewhere that Catholic lay may, when no priest is available, take communion. Might that mean that churches without orders, if valid orders are required for communion, still have an exception?

ONLY A Ordained priest / Bishop has the abilty, the Power from God to make God present in Catholic Holy Communion.

When no priest is available, previously Consecrated Host, can be and at times are use in what we call a “Communion Service” and in extreme cases Rome permits layfolk to distribute Holy Communion that has been previously Cconsecrated. First by Deacons, second by Acolytes, third by Religious, forth by men, and fifth by lay-women.

Hope this clarifies for you?

Love and prayers,

Pat

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Here are 2 scriptures of many when Jesus consecrates his disciples to act in his stead, for they are one with him by his consecration, which the Catholic Church calls the apostles successors in our 2000 years of Holy Orders in Bishops “in persona Christi”. Jesus commands his disciples to celebrate his presence from his passion in the consecrated species of the Eucharist during Mass to do “in rememberance of me” with their consecrated lives unto God in Holy Orders. Please read what Jesus is praying for here not just his disciples to be one in him (in persona Christi) but their successors who are given and hear this same word from the disciples of Jesus who later become Apostles (sent) to baptise, teach, feed and tend God’s flock (John 21:15…) and forgive sins.

John 17:6
"I revealed your name 5 to those whom you gave me out of the world. They belonged to you, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.
7
Now they know that everything you gave me is from you,
8
because the words you gave to me I have given to them, and they accepted them and truly understood that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me.
9
I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for the ones you have given me, because they are yours,
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and everything of mine is yours and everything of yours is mine, and I have been glorified in them.
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And now I will no longer be in the world, but they are in the world, while I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are.
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When I was with them I protected them in your name that you gave me, and I guarded them, and none of them was lost except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled.
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But now I am coming to you. I speak this in the world so that they may share my joy completely.
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I gave them your word, and the world hated them, because they do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world.
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6** I do not ask that you take them out of the world but that you keep them from the evil one.
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They do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world.
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Consecrate them in the truth. Your word is truth.
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As you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world.
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And I consecrate myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth.
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“I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
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so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
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And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, **
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I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.
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Father, they are your gift to me. I wish that where I am 7 they also may be with me, that they may see my glory that you gave me, because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
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Righteous Father, the world also does not know you, but I know you, and they know that you sent me.
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I made known to them your name and I will make it known, 8 that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in them.”

John 14:9
Jesus said to him, **"Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? **Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works.
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Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves.
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Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.
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**And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
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If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.
15
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
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And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate 8 to be with you always,
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the Spirit of truth, 9 which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.
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I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. 10

Peace be with you**