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billcu1
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What does it mean “Wives be subjected to your husbands”. That’s hard to understand in modern western society.
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chefmomster2
Guest
That line should always be read in context.
NABRE: Ephesians 5
Wives and Husbands.
21 Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ.*
22 Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord.
23 For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body.
24 As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her
26 to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word,
27 that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
28 So [also] husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
29 For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church,
30 because we are members of his body.
Husbands and wives are to live with mutual respect, mutual caring, and mutual support. They are truly ONE body. Neither is allowed to be a dictator and neither is required to be a doormat. Since we are one, when we hurt our spouse, we hurt ourselves. When we wrongfully impose our opinion on the other we harm ourselves.
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Tommy999
Guest
Wow, excellent answer, chefmomster2. I agree 100%.
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zz912
Guest
Exactly how did Christ love the Church? By giving His life for her. That is what husbands are called to do, to sacrifice themselves for their wives.
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billcu1
Guest
Verse 26 too. Does that mean a man is to give his wife ritual baths or something?
A lot of protestants I know don’t understand and misquote these scriptures. I don’t understand them so I don’t know how to respond to them.
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chefmomster2
Guest
**
This is related to Titus 3:
5 not because of any righteous deeds we had done
but because of his mercy,
he saved us through the bath of rebirth
and renewal by the holy Spirit,
6 whom he richly poured out on us
through Jesus Christ our savior,
7 so that we might be justified by his grace
and become heirs in hope of eternal life.
Washing with water refers to Baptism. The Word is Jesus Christ and His Words of salvation. The man is entrusted to bring his wife into life in the Spirit. Of course, the wife is expected to work to bring her husband to deeper faith also. Again, they are one.Verse 26 too. Does that mean a man is to give his wife ritual baths or something?
A lot of protestants I know don’t understand and misquote these scriptures. I don’t understand them so I don’t know how to respond to them.
This is related to Titus 3:
5 not because of any righteous deeds we had done
but because of his mercy,
he saved us through the bath of rebirth
and renewal by the holy Spirit,
6 whom he richly poured out on us
through Jesus Christ our savior,
7 so that we might be justified by his grace
and become heirs in hope of eternal life.
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billcu1
Guest
And I would guess this would be through work and spiritual things right? And where do the kids come into this. The offspring I understand from the union is to leave and cleave to their mate. I have heard so many misguided “livetogether” couple say “You will never mean to me as much as my kids do”. I don’t know to me that’s wrong that’s not the way intended. The kids are to grow up and leave. I don’t know what’s so great about kids to people, they’re troublemakers and thieves and tear up property. Some of them that is. Depending on the kid and how they’re raised if raised at all.
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zz912
Guest
You sound a bit jaded on kids. Yes, they’re very frustrating at times, but if you give them discipline, most kids grow up okay. And until you have them, you just can’t understand the love you have for them.
I do agree though, your love for spouse should not take a lower priority to your kids. Sure they have more urgent needs, especially young, but the bond of marriage must be preserved.
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mikekle
Guest
Also important to remember, WE are the ones changing, our societies, but God is forever unchanging…so popular things come and go with our societies, but Gods laws will always apply the way he sees them to be, doesnt matter to God, if something is not done, or not common/ popular in modern times, he is only concerned with HIS laws and if they are being practiced and obeyed.
I know this is a difficult thing for modern people to recognize, but we need to remember that God NEVER changes, like we do, he is always the same.
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billcu1
Guest
How do we know we are not just being given what we need for now. Need for a time.
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chefmomster2
Guest
I’m not sure what you are asking exactly, but I will say this. Sometimes we are given things just for the time we need them. So what? If we only need them for a time, then it is sufficient isn’t it?
What remains with us (if we remain with it) is sacramental grace and the presence of the Holy Spirit in our very selves guding us, directing us, and loving us. But, we need to recognize that all of our strength comes from God, not from ourselves. Any strength we have for good is from Him. But, it is essential that we show gratitude for strength already given and to ask for what we need according to His will. The same goes for courage, charity, virtue, and all good things.
Additionally we must ask that He give to us according to His will, not our own. Sometimes the best thing that can happen for us is for OUR plans to fail! I have had this happen and every singke time, things of a far greater value always evolved in time. Thank God fir unanswered prayers.
If I missed the substance of your question, let me know.
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billcu1
Guest
Very, very good answer. On the mark. ThanksI’m not sure what you are asking exactly, but I will say this. Sometimes we are given things just for the time we need them. So what? If we only need them for a time, then it is sufficient isn’t it?
What remains with us (if we remain with it) is sacramental grace and the presence of the Holy Spirit in our very selves guding us, directing us, and loving us. But, we need to recognize that all of our strength comes from God, not from ourselves. Any strength we have for good is from Him. But, it is essential that we show gratitude for strength already given and to ask for what we need according to His will. The same goes for courage, charity, virtue, and all good things.
Additionally we must ask that He give to us according to His will, not our own. Sometimes the best thing that can happen for us is for OUR plans to fail! I have had this happen and every singke time, things of a far greater value always evolved in time. Thank God fir unanswered prayers.
If I missed the substance of your question, let me know.
What you said is really all that matters.
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minkymurph
Guest
I’ll give you my take on it.
As far as I know the verse reads, 'continue to be subject to your husbands.
What I have read in biblical commentary’s is when St Paul wrote his letters he was addressing particular issues in the Church’s he wrote to. No one knows for certain what those issues were, but there are clues.
For example:
Christian marriage as we know is monogamous, but in the early Christian Church many ‘Gentile’ men who converted to Christianity had more than one wife which they couldn’t exactly just abandon. I think this is the backdrop to Paul’s instruction that bishops should have one wife.
One has to consider why Paul would have counselled women to remain subject to their husband? My take on it is it was to assist women who were married to unbelievers - the clue is in the word ‘continue.’ There were also women who converted to Christianity and their husbands did not. In the first century wives (and children and slaves) were considered the property of the husband. It may have been the case that women were unsure if their husband should continue to be their master and owner, and the master and owner of their children. It may have been a source of conflict as the unbelieving husband may have insisted on, perhaps their children participating in customs or practices out of step with Christianity. In my view Paul is offering council as to how they should handle the situation and he advises them to continue subject to preserve the marriage for their own sake, the sake of their children, and perhaps to persuade their husband to covert to Christianity. Peter’s letter reinforces this thought when he writes, ‘the unbelieving husband may be won over without a word.’
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minkymurph
Guest
In relation to the above I would like to add a wife remaining subject to her husband today can be said to be unnecessary as marriage in contemporary western society is not the business arrangement it was in the past. Women and children are not considered the man’s property and they are protected by law.
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billcu1
Guest
What you say makes a lot of sense. And in a lot of ways that why I object to terms like “Living Bible”. That’s changing the meaning as does the times. These things were written for the time they were written. That’s why the church is so much needed. You can get many timeless things from the Bible but some thing were just for when they were written.
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chefmomster2
Guest
The meaning doesn’t change. God’s message and teaching is unchanging. What does change is our language and culture. The previous OP mentioned a situation in early church times when polygamy was acceptable to many. Nowadays that is not true. The meaning hasn’t changed though. When the Church undertakes to “revise” the Bible they do so in order to ensure that the message itself stays the same.
Likewise with language, the usage of terms that have changed over time can distort meaning. For example, many times people question whether Jesus had actual brothers. They don’t understand that “brethren” or “brothers” at that time meant any family member, even members of the extended family such as cousins, etc.
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billcu1
Guest
Ok for those of us lucky enough to have the church and episcopy to go to. I was thinking of the poor protestants that seem to want to “rewrite” biblical meanings
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chefmomster2
Guest
True!
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billcu1
Guest
Can that also mean just friends? I have heard that too.
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chefmomster2
Guest
I think it can, but it’s likely there’s some sort of familial connection.
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