Scriptural support for penance

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Are there any New Testament Scriptures that directly support penance? I’m involved in a conversation with a Protestant who wonders why penance is necessary if our sins have been forgiven.

I have 2 Sam 12:13-14 below, but I’m anticipating that he will say something like “that was before Jesus gave himself on the Cross”.

*Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan answered David: “The LORD on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the LORD by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.” *
 
2 Corinthians 7:9-11

9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 11 See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter.

That one struck me as important. I’ll post a few more later tonight if I have time 🙂 Good luck!

Blessings,
Heather
 
Colossians 1:24 – “Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the Church.”

Our sufferings benefit the Church and the people in it, and they complete Christ’s suffering on the cross. Don’t know of much more plain support for penance than that.

Jeremy
 
Matthew 11:12 “From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force.”

Those of us who do violence to our vices i.e. penance take heaven by force.
 
The ideas about fasting, sack-cloth and ashes came from somewhere.
 
Don’t know the Scripture verse, but if you look at the Master who forgave his servant the large debt, only to find out the servant would not forgive someone else’s much smaller debt.

The master through the servant into prison, until he paid the full amount.

Until he paid the full amount represents penance.
 
Are we talking about penance in a general sense or penance in a Sacramental sense (i.e. confession) ?
 
Lrning said:
Are there any New Testament Scriptures that directly support penance? I’m involved in a conversation with a Protestant who wonders why penance is necessary if our sins have been forgiven.

I have 2 Sam 12:13-14 below, but I’m anticipating that he will say something like “that was before Jesus gave himself on the Cross”.

*Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan answered David: “The LORD on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the LORD by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.” *
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There were several instances in the 16th Century where the traditional Latin vocabulary used by St. Jerome in the Vulgate was challenged based on the grammar and vocabulary in the Greek New Testament. Most of this were minor quibbles of no great import, but some were used by prots to question Catholic teaching and practice.

One of the important challenges were the following:
  1. The translation of “metanoeo” as "paenitentiam agite"
The Greek verb “metanoeo" comes from two other Greek words: meta (change) & noos (mind). The most accurate rendering into English of the meaning of this word would be “to repent.” The implication was that at some point in **time someone **would change their mind about a past action and regret having done it. There was no simple Latin equivalent of this Greek term and so the Vulgate used the phrase "paenitentiam agite"which in Latin means "do penance.” The idea of “penance” in Latin carried the connotation of regret and sorrow for past actions but went further in that it also implied the performing of acts of reparation and mortification. By having Jesus say that his followers had to “do penance and believe the Gospel” (Mark 1:15) it **implied that they needed to perform acts of mortification (fasting, self-denial, wearing a hair shirt, self flagellation) or reparation (restoring loss goods, compensating victims) , as conditions for the forgiveness of sins. **

The prots in the 16th Century claimed that the word metanoeo carried no such implication and that all that was needed was a genuine sense of sorrow for sin. Certain radicals – typified today by some Dispensationalists – even stated that sorrow for sin was not needed. They claimed that repentance merely meant that you intellectually changed the way you thought from that moment forwards without any reference to past actions. Those were “covered over” by Christ and hence forgotten by God.

Technically, the prots were right. The words “metaneo” and "paenitentiam agite"are not exact equivalents. But they forgot that the NT uses Greek words in a distinctly Hebraic way and that they must be understood in the context of a Hebrew idiom. The word for “repent” in OT Hebrew was "nacham" which has the following connotations according to Strong’s Concordance:

Nacham - to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted

a) (Niphal)
  1. to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion
  2. to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent
  3. to comfort oneself, be comforted
  4. to comfort oneself, ease oneself
b) (Piel) to comfort, console

c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled

d) (Hithpael)
  1. to be sorry, have compassion
  2. to rue, repent of
  3. to comfort oneself, be comforted
  4. to ease oneself
As you can see, **the OT concept included sorrow, grief , compassion, and acts to comfort others and be comforted oneself. Repentance was not merely a passive act of regret nor merely a change of mind. As such, St. Jerome’s choice of "do penance"had the wider context of the OT meaning in mind and we need to appreciate that. **

In later rabbinical theology, the term “teshuvah” (turning) would be used for repentance. It would be defined by the Talmud as a turning towards God and a turning away from one’s sins. It also meant a turning towards one’s sins as something to contemplate and regret: the opposite of moral denial. St. Thomas Aquinas was aware of this rabbinical teaching and in his Summa Theologiae he has the turnings towards God and towards/away from sin as two of the four results of the grace of justification. (The other two were the forgiveness of sin and the infusion of the new life of grace.)

The Rabbis were not heavily into acts of mortification. many of these practices were unique to Christians who wished to imitate their Lord in his suffering for mankind on the cross. Nevertheless, repentance in “sack cloth and ashes” was a Jewish practice advocated in both Testaments(e.g., Daniel 9:3, Matthew 11:21Matt 11:21 they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. , Luke 10:13).
If one steals from someone, or damages another’s property willfully or neglectfully, is it enough to have true sorrow and resolve not to do it again? Or is something more required such as restitution!
In summary, the issue here was whether Greek grammar or the Biblical idiom should guide the translation. The prots opted for the former while St. Jerome and the Catholic Tradition opted for the latter.
 
Lrning said:
Are there any New Testament Scriptures that directly support penance? I’m involved in a conversation with a Protestant who wonders why penance is necessary if our sins have been forgiven.

I have 2 Sam 12:13-14 below, but I’m anticipating that he will say something like “that was before Jesus gave himself on the Cross”.

*Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan answered David: “The LORD on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the LORD by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.” *
Click to expand...
Here is how the Douey Rheims reads based on Jeromes translation:
Penance In Scripture:
But unless you shall do penance, you shall all likewise perish. Luke 13:3
And God indeed having winked at times of this ignorance, now delcareth unto men, that all should everywhere do penance. Because he hath appointed a day, wherein he will judge the world in equity, by by man whom he hath appointed; giving faith to all, by raising him up from the dead Acts 17:30-31
Therefore will I judge everyman according to his ways, O house of Israel, saith the Lord God. Be converted, and do penance for all your enequities: and iniquity shall not be your ruin, Ezechial 18:30
And in those days cometh John the Baptist, preaching in the desert of judea. And saying: Do penance: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mat 3:12
But I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first charity. Be mindufl, therefore, from whence thou art fallen: and do penance and do the first works. Or else I come to thee, and will move thy candelstick out of its place, except thou do penance Rev 2:4-5
But I have against thee a few things: because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat, and to commit fornication: So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaites. In like manner**, do penance**: if not, I come to thee quickl, and will fight against them with the sword of mouth. Rev 2:14-16
Be watchful and strengthen the things that remain, which are ready to die. For I find not thy works full before my God. Have in mind therefore in what manner thou has received and heard: and observe, and do penance. Rev 3:2-3
Such as I love, rebuke and chastise, Be zealous therefore, and do penance. Reve 3:19
Main Entry: Re-pent Etymology: Middle English, from Old French repentir, from re-+pentir to be sorry, from Latin paenitEre or PENITENT (Merriam-Webster,1999)
PENITENT \Pen"i*tent, n. 1, one under church censure, but admitted to penance; one undergoing penance. (Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1996)
Let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus as the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross. . . . ‘My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage when you are punished by him. For the Lord disciplines whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives. [God] disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it" (Heb. 12:1–12).
 
Lrning said:
Are there any New Testament Scriptures that directly support penance? I’m involved in a conversation with a Protestant who wonders why penance is necessary if our sins have been forgiven.

I have 2 Sam 12:13-14 below, but I’m anticipating that he will say something like “that was before Jesus gave himself on the Cross”.
Click to expand...
Actually, to God, there is no “before Jesus gave himself on the Cross.” God is eternal; to him all time is an instant Now. Besides, scripture tells us Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Also, as luck would have it (your luck in this case), I happen to be in the middle of reading *The Salvation Controversy *by James Akin. He covers all this in chapter 4 “Doing Penance.”

First Akin explains that God is our Savior in more than one sense. Of course he is our Eternal Savior, that is, he saves us from damnation. However, he is also our Temporal Savior, that is, he saves us from bad things here on earth. An example is his saving the Hebrews from enslavement in Egypt.

Our penance does not help with our eternal salvation. That was paid once and for all by Christ’s sacrifice. However, when we do penance, it helps with our temporal punishment. Of course Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient to cover any and all punishments, but God still chooses to punish us sometimes anyway (probably to teach us a lesson) as you demonstrated with your quote about David. Another example is Moses being punished for striking the rock twice (Num. 20:12).

In other words, God disciplines us just as parents discipline their children. That’s what a loving Father does. Even after we forgive our kids, we still ground them!

This is in the New Testament as well (therefore putting it after the crucifixion if your friend insists on that). Check Hebrews 12:5-13.

So, Akin argues, God leaves in place some temporal punishment for our sins so this punishment may have a rehabilitative effect. Akin says, “Penance is one way in which we willingly embrace this discipline in order to learn from it, just as a godly child my consciously embrace his parent’s discipline.” He further argues that we have an inner, human need to mourn over tragedy (and sin is always a tragedy) and to make a gesture of reparation.

Hope this helps!
 
Thank you all for the replies. I knew I could count on the great folks here to teach me something new!

The problem I seem to be running into is that Catholic theology is often so complex, just quoting one or two lines from Scripture doesn’t nearly cover it. (The whole penance issue stemmed from indulgences. Yikes!)

I think the Matthew 11:21 verse seems the clearest that repentance can require action, not just feelings of remorse.

If anyone has anything to add, please do.
 
Lrning said:
Thank you all for the replies. I knew I could count on the great folks here to teach me something new!

The problem I seem to be running into is that Catholic theology is often so complex, just quoting one or two lines from Scripture doesn’t nearly cover it. (The whole penance issue stemmed from indulgences. Yikes!)

I think the Matthew 11:21 verse seems the clearest that repentance can require action, not just feelings of remorse.

If anyone has anything to add, please do.
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Lrning: We Catholics must understand what your protestant friend is saying when he/she says “we are forgiven”. Many, many of our protestant brethren, especially those with strict Calvinistic beliefs, believe their act of faith when they “Invited Jesus into Their Hearts”, gives them forgiveness of all past sins, and all future sinful bahavior. Those folks actually believe that they are “Saved” then and there, and cannot sin even when they deliberately do sinful things. They really believe that although they shouldn’t sin, they actually can’t sin. That’s where they get their misguided notion of “Once Saved, Always Saved”, or as some call it “Eternal Security”. I once asked one such “believer” if a “Saved” person got desperate for money, robbed a bank, killed a bank employee and when running out of the bank got into a gun fight with the police and was killed, where would he go. That believer said the robber and killer would go straight to heaven, because he was already saved. So talk with your friend and see if he/she believes in Once Saved, Always Saved. If they do, you are going to have a very hard time showing them the error of their belief, but there is a lot of scripture to refute it. If they do, look to see if there is already a thread on that belief, and if not start one. The posters here can get you the scripture you need quickly.

Peace
 
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