Scripture Against Masturbation?

[corking]

I did the Shabbat, but for Jesus. When I lit the candles a powerful presence entered my bedrrom so strong it gave me pain. I thought it was GOd, finished the ceremony and went to bed. Something woke me up a little later and whispered in my ear “Light the candles for me” So I thougt it was GOd and lit tealight candles. Something again woke me up when the candles were out…This pattern kept going on all night long. The next day several Pastoes were praying over me and said I have gotten involved in Witchcraft. And it has been tormenting me since.

 

[Yerusalyim]

My recommendation is to see a good doctor. Jesus practiced the candle lighting ceremony for Shabbat his entire life. It was a gift from God not a source of evil. The only way doing this could have opened you to demonic influences is if you were doing it to SPITE GOD.

I’m not understanding why you were lighting candles before bed, the ceremony is done at sunset. Seriously, consider talking to a doctor. I don’t deny demons have influence in the world by what you’re describing sounds more like a psychotic episode. Believe me, I know what I’m talking about, my ex-wife had them often.

 

[corking]

I have 100% nothingdid wrong with me physicologically.
I did the ceromony for God and it opened up a door to witchcraft. I am telling you the truth. If you give me your email address I can give you the whole story of what happened to me. It is about three pages long but then you will UNDERSTAND what happened to me.
I would like to send it to you.
The holy spirit will show you.

 

[jcrichton]

I am a Christian and got too far into Judaism and started doing Jewish ceromonies and it led to demonic attack…Be careful…Jesus abolished the laws of the old testament with tthe New Testament…The only thing we are supposed to keep from the old are the commandements and the Title offering.

***Hi!

…I think that you should rethink your conversion… as a child I recall stating that I hated the Jews because they killed Jesus… I was much too infant in the Faith to understand that Jesus, a Jew, demonstrated exactly the opposite of my emotion… “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do…”

Interestingly enough the Church never taught me to hate the Jews… this was inspired by my own limited understanding and my desire to defend/speak for Jesus…

I think that you are being lead astray… much like Saul persecuting the Church, some people believe that to Love Jesus means to renounce everything Jewish… they are sadly mistaken! Our Faith in Yahweh God is deeply rooted in Judaism; Israel’s failure to obey the Old Covenant and to submit to Jesus, the Messiah, does not mean that Jesus’ disciples (everyone who believes in Jesus, the Word Incarnate, come to rescue us from death on the Cross) must render them obsolete!

Here’s what Jesus had to say about the Old Testament:

Do not imagine that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete them. In truth I tell you, till heaven and earth disappear, not one dot, not one little stroke, is to disappear from the Law untill all its purpose is achieved. (St. Matthew 5:17-18)

Whoever is teaching anything contrary to Christ… it is they whom you should shun, not the Word of God!

…conversely, my invitation to you is to seek the fullness of the Faith in the Catholic Church, the Body of Christ!

Maran atha!

Angel***

 

[dan]

From “Persona Humana - Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics:”

The traditional Catholic doctrine that masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder is often called into doubt or expressly denied today. It is said that psychology and sociology show that it is a normal phenomenon of sexual development, especially among the young. It is stated that there is real and serious fault only in the measure that the subject deliberately indulges in solitary pleasure closed in on self (“ipsation”), because in this case the act would indeed be radically opposed to the loving communion between persons of different sex which some hold is what is principally sought in the use of the sexual faculty.

This opinion is contradictory to the teaching and pastoral practice of the Catholic Church. Whatever the force of certain arguments of a biological and philosophical nature, which have sometimes been used by theologians, in fact both the Magisterium of the Church - in the course of a constant tradition - and the moral sense of the faithful have declared without hesitation that masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act.[19] The main reason is that, whatever the motive for acting this way, the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside normal conjugal relations essentially contradicts the finality of the faculty. For it lacks the sexual relationship called for by the moral order, namely the relationship which realizes “the full sense of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love.”[20] All deliberate exercise of sexuality must be reserved to this regular relationship. Even if it cannot be proved that Scripture condemns this sin by name, the tradition of the Church has rightly understood it to be condemned in the New Testament when the latter speaks of “impurity,” “unchasteness” and other vices contrary to chastity and continence.

Sociological surveys are able to show the frequency of this disorder according to the places, populations or circumstances studied. In this way facts are discovered, but facts do not constitute a criterion for judging the moral value of human acts.[21] The frequency of the phenomenon in question is certainly to be linked with man’s innate weakness following original sin; but it is also to be linked with the loss of a sense of God, with the corruption of morals engendered by the commercialization of vice, with the unrestrained licentiousness of so many public entertainments and publications, as well as with the neglect of modesty, which is the guardian of chastity.

*On the subject of masturbation modern psychology provides much valid and useful information for formulating a more equitable judgment on moral responsibility and for orienting pastoral action. Psychology helps one to see how the immaturity of adolescence (which can sometimes persist after that age), psychological imbalance or habit can influence behavior, diminishing the deliberate character of the act and bringing about a situation whereby subjectively there may not always be serious fault. But in general, the absence of serious responsibility must not be presumed; this would be to misunderstand people’s moral capacity.
*

Link:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19751229_persona-humana_en.html

 

[Hastrman]

I was much too infant in the Faith to understand that Jesus, a Jew, demonstrated exactly the opposite of my emotion… “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do…”

I would also argue that, spiritually, any Anti-Semitic Christian is…a self-hating Jew.

See, we’re spiritually Jews.

I would find any texts on “be fruitful and multiply,” and also on not doing useless things. Obviously sex that’s not fruitful, is useless.

Or more specifically, sex that wouldn’t be fruitful if everything was working, is useless–so not that silly “childless couple” nonsense again.

 

[martin1]

It’s as simple as this:

God created sex for 1 man and 1 woman (who are married). Anything else is a sin because it violates God’s plan.

In this case, masturbation eliminates the 1 woman out of the equation.

 

[martin1]

I’m married and am apart from my wife for 6 months of the year. we use intimate “phone sex” (between ourselves not other parties)
as a form of bonding and intimacy when apart. As we are married is it sinfull (over 11 years) Is it sinfull for a woman to masterbate as she has no seed?
So much seems to be read into so little or is it so little is read from so much.
I’m very confused as all the answers I’ve seen so far have not established an answer, moreover another point of conjecture based on an individuals interpretation of a foreign text translated where certain words have no direct translation into English and vice versa. If “wasting” seed is sinfull then surely we are all doomed as sperm is reabsorbed into our body when not expelled periodically. This would then suggest that as women do not have seed they can not sin by masturbation. What of the act of masturbation by the woman to the man. I don’t think there will ever be an answer to the contradictions which exist or are perceived to exist in the Bible

 

[davidv]

I’m married and am apart from my wife for 6 months of the year. we use intimate “phone sex” (between ourselves not other parties)
as a form of bonding and intimacy when apart. As we are married is it sinfull (over 11 years) Is it sinfull for a woman to masterbate as she has no seed?
So much seems to be read into so little or is it so little is read from so much.
I’m very confused as all the answers I’ve seen so far have not established an answer, moreover another point of conjecture based on an individuals interpretation of a foreign text translated where certain words have no direct translation into English and vice versa. If “wasting” seed is sinfull then surely we are all doomed as sperm is reabsorbed into our body when not expelled periodically. This would then suggest that as women do not have seed they can not sin by masturbation. What of the act of masturbation by the woman to the man. I don’t think there will ever be an answer to the contradictions which exist or are perceived to exist in the Bible

Please put the circumstance you describe here in the context of the information provided in post #16 . In my reading of it, what you describe above is clearly, with any doubt, wrong.

 

[jcrichton]

I’m very confused as all the answers I’ve seen so far have not established an answer, …I don’t think there will ever be an answer to the contradictions which exist or are perceived to exist in the Bible

***Hi, martin!

…let me try a simple substitution:

(…I do not drink–consume alcohol–nor do drugs…)

Scriptures do not speak on crack or angel dust or any other
hallucinogenic element…

…so lets say I have health problems or I’m stressed or I’m just too old to enjoy my life… a “friend” gets a hold of some mushrooms or some other organic element that, when consumed, can help “alleviate” my personal suffrage…

Would you recommend that:
a) I use it, since it is clear that Scriptures have nothing against it–plus God must’ve wanted me to use it since He created it… or
b) would you go to Scriptures, find a simple passage that speaks against indulgence or that tells me that my body is the living Temple of God? (Note that there’s no such passage in Scriptures that speaks on any one particular mushroom.)

…you claim confusion and Biblical contradictions… but aren’t you really saying that you seek Biblical confirmation on your personal practices?

That is our greatest fallacy: wanting to conform Scriptures to our personal philosophies.

Maran atha!

Angel***

 

[jcrichton]

I would also argue that, spiritually, any Anti-Semitic Christian is…a self-hating Jew.

See, we’re spiritually Jews.

I would find any texts on “be fruitful and multiply,” and also on not doing useless things. Obviously sex that’s not fruitful, is useless.

Or more specifically, sex that wouldn’t be fruitful if everything was working, is useless–so not that silly “childless couple” nonsense again.

***Hi, Hastrman!

…that has also been my understanding… when preparing for my First Communion I began to grow in the Faith and I understood that I could not hate others in order to demonstrate my love for Christ! ("…how can you claim to Love God whom you do not know or see while hating/rejecting those who are right beside you?"–paraphrased)

Maran atha!

Angel***

 

[Huiou_Theou]

The sin of Onan is to deny the injunction to raise up children in his brother’s name. It is condemning a woman to continue childless and to be held up to ridicule in public. It was a great shame for a woman to be barren and when a man enters into the sex act with her and then pulls out at the last moment, it is showing utmost contempt to the woman. It is extremely vicious behavior in the context of Judaic law. That is the sin of Onan: to mistreat one’s spouse. In today’s world, the sin of Onan is spousal abuse, not masturbation.

Matthew

Matthew, Although there is some truth in what you say – it is hard to substantiate. No one has much proof of exactly what form of Law was in existence at the time of Onan, son of Judah – the father of the very tribe which would become the tribe of Judah.

But at this time in history, Judah had NO DESCENDANTS ALL.

Now I admit that later writers read the Mosaic Law back into the pentateuch – or perhaps they take examples which coincide with the Law to emphasize the reason the Law exists. So, Levirate law explanations creeping into older stories is a natural consequence – and it makes sense.

But – In the case of Onan, He was to father the tribe which would inherit the promise of the messiah. So, If Onan had succeeded in keeping her childless, Jesus could never have been born of the tribe of Judah. The firstborn son of the first wife appears fairly consistently, from what I have studied, to carry the promise.

It’s a chicken egg problem to say the Law forbid it, so Onan is guilty of a later Law – or the opposite, a custom with little binding force caused God to be angry enough to kill one (and possibly two) people.

The promise, however, hearkens all the way back to Adam and Eve which is undoubtedly an unbroken oral tradition, as is Noah’s ark, to much earlier ages and cultural influences.
In some form, the promise made to eve was already known to Judah.

As to disgrace – that is a weak argument:
Moses allowed divorce (which certainly disgraced women as non virgin second hand goods) in order to prevent the worse sin of having them murdered. ( A hardness of Heart ).

Onan, regardless of his motive, acted in a certain way which is undenaibly masturbation because of his intention in doing the act (prevent children).

I have a bit fuller answer to add to another poster which may add some clarifying details.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

BUT, the reason that this was considered to be wasteful was because the contemporary knowledge of human biology taught that the male seed contained the entire child and the woman was purely an incubator, contributing nothing to the actual child. Thus “wasting the seed” was actually destroying real human life.

The residue of this error in biology from thousands of years ago is to continue to condemn something harmless, normal, and probably beneficial.

Pat, could you cite a primary source which shows this to unambiguously be the case? This is an argument I see repeated occasionally, and have been surprised when checking it to find not only an absence of evidence to support it – but rather contradictions to this view. Seed was presumed to die in order for a plant to grow – it was not considered that seed continued to live. This is actually in pretty good agreement with scientific observations on the point today – fusion removes the identity of the seed and “pollen” to make a single product which is unique.

I don’t have the correct page numbers, but within the Qumran community (dead sea scrolls) there is an explicit non-scriptural interpretive text which talks about the semen (seed) being “clay” – eg: the same stuff which Adam was made from. Imagery in the bible also points to the Jewish understanding that God Molded the clay inside the mother’s womb in agreement with the dead sea scrolls. So, I haven’t seen any credible evidence yet that they took the seed to literally be “whole” persons – but rather the opposite, that it was some kind of “clay seed” is the most likely interpretation – and they were baffled as to how the blood and spirit (breath) entered into the child.

Also, I would note that scripture speaks in Genesis of “Eve” eventually having a “seed” (The seed of a woman!) which would crush the serpent. The exact meaning of which is obscure, but women do not normally have seed – nor is any other woman spoken of in this way that I am aware of.

This promise, seems to be associated with inheritence and seeds which becomes ever more important as the messianic age approaches – but which none the less was always part of the Jewish traditions.

In the context of Onan, your interpretation doesn’t quite hold – although it makes more sense than trying to apply a law anachronistically to Onan’s time as if it were only the prevention of childbirth for the eldest son “Er” which is condemned (as another poster holds) since Judah – the father – is guilty of preventing it – for he puts his daughter in law away with the intention of NEVER allowing her to marry his final son – lest his last son die too, and then he himself have to marry his daughter in Law.
All three of Judah’s sons by a foreign woman are rejected by God — But God does not kill Judah like he does Onan and Er. The final son, who does not commit the sin – is not killed either.

So, neither trying to scientifically advance us out of the moral argument, nor legally wiggle out of it will do.
Onan, whether as an omission or an act (as euthenasia is an omission but still called an act) – Onan committed an act which is described as spilling seminal fluid, and that is what he is executed by God for.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

And to clarify two minor points:

I am not 100% sure Jewish law would have sanctioned Judah Marrying Tamar as she was once married to his son, and if the marital law as espoused in Genesis holds – that the two become ONE flesh, it would follow that Tamar was possibly his “son’s” flesh in their ideas and therefore his marrying her might have been considered incest. So, there may have been reason for later writers to include that Judah had no more relations with Tamar, after his first encounter.

Also, today science recognizes a difference in terminology.
The woman has unfertalized eggs (oocytes) and the man carries the analogous material of pollen. But this is an artificial distinction created some years after these texts were written, and shouldn’t be used to judge these early texts.

 

[chaz0426]

How many threads on this subject must be posted?

Can’t there be one sticky with teachings from the Catechism posted for all to read?

Don’t do it. It’s really not that hard to understand. Read the Catechism to understand why.

But that explaination alone isn’t sufficient especially to those who have been struggling with it for years not knowing it was wrong. It’s like smoking if not more addicting, it’s hard to quit. Going on that is smoking a mortal sin? It causes much more damage to your body than masturbation. Where as masturbation is considered normal/healthy today but a “Mortal” sin in the church, not venial.

I really think “Mortal” sins are becoming more intertwined with once thought of venial sins today. It might be just me but I really think masturbating is no where near as grevious as adultery or murder. Any logical/ reasonable conscience would agree. While it is sinful and should be avoided, it’s really hard for some people. I think the best you can do is do your best to abstain from it.

 

[jcrichton]

But that explaination alone isn’t sufficient especially to those who have been struggling with it for years not knowing it was wrong. It’s like smoking if not more addicting, it’s hard to quit. Going on that is smoking a mortal sin? It causes much more damage to your body than masturbation. Where as masturbation is considered normal/healthy today but a “Mortal” sin in the church, not venial.

I really think “Mortal” sins are becoming more intertwined with once thought of venial sins today. It might be just me but I really think masturbating is no where near as grevious as adultery or murder. Any logical/ reasonable conscience would agree. While it is sinful and should be avoided, it’s really hard for some people. I think the best you can do is do your best to abstain from it.

If we prescribe the Teachings of the Bible as society would have us we will find that we will soon be in enmity with God as the world seeks to satisfy its appetite with little, if any, concern for Yahweh God’s Commandment and Moral Demands…

…of course smoking is a Mortal sin… just read the Ten Commandments–particularly “though shall not kill.” Killing ourselves and others (secondary smoke) should not be an act to which Christians should aspire–no matter how “cool” or “sexy” it is presented to be.

…the problem with masturbation, as with any other vice, is that it is damaging to both the individual and the family… a person (father, mother, child) who is an active Catholic does not exist in a vacuum; he/she will drag him/herself and others along with his/her vice; time and money that should be used to benefit the whole family is wasted feeding the vice.

The most important argument comes from Jesus Himself: “…if you desire in your mind you have already committed adultery…” (paraphrased)

Maran atha!’

Angel

 

[drforjc]

If we prescribe the Teachings of the Bible as society would have us we will find that we will soon be in enmity with God as the world seeks to satisfy its appetite with little, if any, concern for Yahweh God’s Commandment and Moral Demands…

…of course smoking is a Mortal sin… just read the Ten Commandments–particularly “though shall not kill.” Killing ourselves and others (secondary smoke) should not be an act to which Christians should aspire–no matter how “cool” or “sexy” it is presented to be.

…the problem with masturbation, as with any other vice, is that it is damaging to both the individual and the family… a person (father, mother, child) who is an active Catholic does not exist in a vacuum; he/she will drag him/herself and others along with his/her vice; time and money that should be used to benefit the whole family is wasted feeding the vice.

The most important argument comes from Jesus Himself: “…if you desire in your mind you have already committed adultery…” (paraphrased)

Maran atha!’

Angel

“Of course smoking is a mortal sin”

I’m not finding any evidence for this assertion in my moral theology textbooks.

 

[jcrichton]

“Of course smoking is a mortal sin”

I’m not finding any evidence for this assertion in my moral theology textbooks.

Have you ever read Exodus 20:13?

“Thou shalt not kill.”

Is killing a mortal sin?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[arunihm1]

How can we be fruitful and multiply if we don’t put the seed where it will grow?

Gen. 38:11-26 - Judah, like Onan, also rejected God’s command to keep up the family lineage, but he was not killed.

Deut. 25:7-10 - the penalty for refusing to keep up a family lineage is not death, like Onan received. Onan was killed for wasting seed.

The Early Church Fathers(notice what year)
“Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted” **Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2 (A.D. 191). **

“To have coitus other than to procreate children is to do injury to nature.” **Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor of Children 2:10:95:3 (A.D. 191). **

"You [Manicheans] make your auditors adulterers of their wives when they take care lest the women with whom they copulate conceive. They take wives according to the laws of matrimony by tablets announcing that the marriage is contracted to procreate children; and then, fearing because of your law [against childbearing]…they copulate in a shameful union only to satisfy lust for their wives. They are unwilling to have children, on whose account alone marriages are made. How is it, then, that you are not those prohibiting marriage, as the apostle predicted of you so long ago [1 Tim. 4:1–4], when you try to take from marriage what marriage is? When this is taken away, husbands are shameful lovers, wives are harlots, bridal chambers are brothels, fathers-in-law are pimps.” **Augustine, Against Faustus 15:7 (A.D. 400). **

Scripture Catholic
scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html