This is not talking about Masturbation. It is talking about ‘wet dreams’ (ejaculation whilst asleep), this is not sinfull as it cannot be controlled (hence their is no consent of the will). The unclean part of the passage is referring to jewish ritual law, law which christians do not follow:Deuteronomy 23:10 “If there is among you any man who is unclean because of a nocturnal emission, then he must go outside the camp; he may not reenter the camp.”
Leviticus 15:16
‘Now if a man has a seminal emission, he shall bathe all his body in water and be unclean until evening.’
New American Standard Bible
Acts of the Apostles, 10
I agree that Masturbation is a sin, however this passage, i believe is not talking about masturbation.11 And he saw the heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending, as it were a great linen sheet let down by the four corners from heaven to the earth: 12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts, and creeping things of the earth, and fowls of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him: Arise, Peter; kill and eat. 14 But Peter said: Far be it from me; for I never did eat any thing that is common and unclean. 15 And the voice spoke to him again the second time: That which God hath cleansed, do not thou call common.
Unfortunately, the Catholic Church is not at liberty to suggest that the Word of God is tainted by the errors of ancient biology. Even if it were, the teaching the Church would be unchanged; it does not rely on any verses from the Bible for its teaching, but instead on the entire deposit of faith and what can be understood through natural reason.BUT, the reason that this was considered to be wasteful was because the contemporary knowledge of human biology taught that the male seed contained the entire child and the woman was purely an incubator, contributing nothing to the actual child. Thus “wasting the seed” was actually destroying real human life.
The residue of this error in biology from thousands of years ago is to continue to condemn something harmless, normal, and probably beneficial.
***Hi, patg!BUT, the reason that this was considered to be wasteful was because the contemporary knowledge of human biology taught that the male seed contained the entire child and the woman was purely an incubator, contributing nothing to the actual child. Thus “wasting the seed” was actually destroying real human life.
The residue of this error in biology from thousands of years ago is to continue to condemn something harmless, normal, and probably beneficial.
No, but the outdated opinions of people are.Unfortunately, the Catholic Church is not at liberty to suggest that the Word of God is tainted by the errors of ancient biology.
I agree and it is quite unfortunate that the church occasionally paints itself into an unsupportable corner when this subject is so clearly based on a faulty understanding of biology.Even if it were, the teaching the Church would be unchanged;
Oh really? I think it relies on quite a few. But not related to this subject, since there are none.it does not rely on any verses from the Bible for its teaching,
Natural reason would only work against the church on this subject (along with a modern understanding of human sexuality). Especially since it frequently occurs naturally beyond one’s control.but instead on the entire deposit of faith and what can be understood through natural reason.
That is nonsense - adultery is a violation of a sacred bond between two people.The suggestion that masturbation is “harmless” is as ridiculous as the suggestion that committing adultery is “harmless”. As long as both parties consent, where is the demonstrated “harm”?
And you don’t see any connection between its morality and the belief that the male seed contained a complete human life?The harm is not of a physical or emotional nature, but instead is found in the simple fact that it is an offense against God.
No, it occurs naturally and harms no one - which is quite different from an “evil act”. People don’t murder or commit other immoralities in their sleep.Masturbation is an evil act;
No, it really doesn’t.it contradicts the word of God
Yes, that one is true.and the teaching of the Church.
Huh?It is an act in service to Satan.
Yes, for some that may be true.For a believing Catholic, that’s more than reason enough to refrain from it.
No one is talking about marriage or adultery. We are talking about how an ancient misunderstanding of biology resulted in condemnation of a harmless act..…you’ve picked up your theology from a psycho-babblist, I gather… how can a marriage benefit from mental fornication or adultery?
That’s not really logical.As a child, once or twice, I would wake up aroused; not because I had been dreaming or thinking about sex–that is a natural behavior… that would not be the same as an adult if I aided the natural process with conscious thought–that is no longer an innocent event!
So she should stop breastfeeding because she enjoys it also? A totally natural biological reaction which promotes a necessary and healthy activity is a beautiful thing.A woman breastfeeding her child could become aroused… if she begin to consciously seek the arousal or allows the natural behavior to escalate… she is committing an immoral act with her child.
?No, but the outdated opinions of people are.
I don’t think that’s clear at all. The Church doesn’t look exclusively to scripture for support. The mere fact that it has been the constant teaching of the Church from the beginning is enough.I agree and it is quite unfortunate that the church occasionally paints itself into an unsupportable corner when this subject is so clearly based on a faulty understanding of biology.
And there needn’t be; the teaching of the universal and ordinary magisterium is sufficient.Oh really? I think it relies on quite a few. But not related to this subject, since there are none.
If it occurs beyond one’s control, there is no culpability. You know that. It is only a sin insofar as it has consent of the will.Natural reason would only work against the church on this subject (along with a modern understanding of human sexuality). Especially since it frequently occurs naturally beyond one’s control.
Adultery is principally an offense against God, like masturbation. It is an act of defiance against the teaching of His church.That is nonsense - adultery is a violation of a sacred bond between two people.
None. I have never heard it suggested that masturbation is the termination of a human life.And you don’t see any connection between its morality and the belief that the male seed contained a complete human life?
God has spoken through His Church.There is no evidence that God has spoken directly on this issue.
It depends what you understand “harm” to be. If it is “harmful” to someone to have their soul cast into hell for eternity, then masturbation is indeed harmful.No, it occurs naturally and harms no one - which is quite different from an “evil act”.
Nor do they commit the sin we’re discussing. Sin must have consent of the will.People don’t murder or commit other immoralities in their sleep.
You don’t think the Church has also erred in its belief in the existence of Satan, do you? If Satan does exists, all evil acts are in service to him.Huh?
I didn’t respond to the OP to start a discussion on the morality of any sexual acts - this has already been done ad nauseum on these forums and would be off topic (and yes, I probably shouldn’t have added the little aside at the end of my original post).?
I don’t think that’s clear at all. The Church doesn’t look exclusively to scripture for support. The mere fact that it has been the constant teaching of the Church from the beginning is enough.
And there needn’t be; the teaching of the universal and ordinary magisterium is sufficient.
If it occurs beyond one’s control, there is no culpability. You know that. It is only a sin insofar as it has consent of the will.
As for natural reason, no one can deny that masturbation is intrinsically disordered.
Adultery is principally an offense against God, like masturbation. It is an act of defiance against the teaching of His church.
None. I have never heard it suggested that masturbation is the termination of a human life.
God has spoken through His Church.
It depends what you understand “harm” to be. If it is “harmful” to someone to have their soul cast into hell for eternity, then masturbation is indeed harmful.
Nor do they commit the sin we’re discussing. Sin must have consent of the will.
You don’t think the Church has also erred in its belief in the existence of Satan, do you? If Satan does exists, all evil acts are in service to him.
***Hi, patg!Quote:
Originally Posted by jcrichton
…you’ve picked up your theology from a psycho-babblist, I gather… how can a marriage benefit from mental fornication or adultery?
No one is talking about marriage or adultery. We are talking about how an ancient misunderstanding of biology resulted in condemnation of a harmless act.
Quote:
As a child, once or twice, I would wake up aroused; not because I had been dreaming or thinking about sex–that is a natural behavior… that would not be the same as an adult if I aided the natural process with conscious thought–that is no longer an innocent event!
That’s not really logical.
Quote:
A woman breastfeeding her child could become aroused… if she begin to consciously seek the arousal or allows the natural behavior to escalate… she is committing an immoral act with her child.
When we have to defecate or urinate there is a sense of relief–that is perfectly natural. When we are famished and we get home and find some tasteless, textureless or otherwise truly unappealing food source our mind blocks the truth and fakes our taste buds into believing that what we’re eating is wonderful… that is very natural (coincidentally, it only works for the very first mouthful or two). A woman breastfeading her child–extremely very very natural. A woman being sexually aroused by her breastfeeding child is only natural till the very first conscious thought of the breastfeeding as a sexual act: the child cannot be the mom’s sexual partner!So she should stop breastfeeding because she enjoys it also? A totally natural biological reaction which promotes a necessary and healthy activity is a beautiful thing.
I think that you get confused with values… the Blues Brothers were not on a mission from God–they said they were on a mission from God; ditto with the use of euphemisms that purport that having sex is “making love,” solo sex is a “necessary release,” “multiple partners” is just what the doctor ordered for a healthy marriage, “too young” to be married or have children but not to “experiment” and engage “multiple partners” in the quest for bliss, “if not able to be with the one you love just love the one you’re with,” the list goes on and on…“We’re on a mission from God.”
…Elwood Blues
The prohibition against masturbation is not simply Jewish ritual law. It is a fundamental part of Christian sexual ethics; the only teaching that makes sense in light of Christ’s repeated exhortations to avoid lust.Seen in this light, it is really no different than the other myriad commands and abominations from God (in Leviticus, for example) which we ALL routinely ignore because we all know they are based on faulty knowledge. I bet you are wearing clothes of blended fabrics, plant a variety of plants in your garden, eat scallops and rare steaks, and on and on… Funny how violating those laws of God isn’t a victory for satan but a few minutes of victimless pleasure will get you tortured without mercy for all eternity.
***Hi, Dauphin!It’s essential to understand this! Christianity is not a repudiation of Judaism, but a fulfillment of it.
The sin of Onan is to deny the injunction to raise up children in his brother’s name. It is condemning a woman to continue childless and to be held up to ridicule in public. It was a great shame for a woman to be barren and when a man enters into the sex act with her and then pulls out at the last moment, it is showing utmost contempt to the woman. It is extremely vicious behavior in the context of Judaic law. That is the sin of Onan: to mistreat one’s spouse. In today’s world, the sin of Onan is spousal abuse, not masturbation.
Thank you Matthew, any opinion to the contrary does not have an understanding of Judaism and is reading a Christian theme into a Jewish Story. Onan took her as his wife but then refused to raise Children to his brother out of greed…a double whammy sin.Matthew
You’re quite mistaken, it was not Jewish Ceremones that opened you to demonic attack. Jesus did NOT abolish the law, he fulfilled the Law…but the Law will never pass away and is still binding upon Jews today.I am a Christian and got too far into Judaism and started doing Jewish ceromonies and it led to demonic attack…Be careful…Jesus abolished the laws of the old testament with tthe New Testament…The only thing we are supposed to keep from the old are the commandements and the Title offering.