Well hold on there, to respond to this, and I am anxious to, but I am not clear of your understanding of the difference that may exist between a teaching compared to a doctrine.
There will always be individuals that fall short of the glory of God, and apparently persons who call themselves Christian that don;'t, in fact, believe and behave in a manner that is consistent with Christian doctrine. They are not Christians, even if they believe they are. Their erroneous thinking does not change the Truth of what Jesus taught. No doubt Judas thought he was one of the 12 Apostles, as did a number of those that noticed him included with them. His failure to believe in Christ, and his betrayal of Christ, does not alter the Truth of what Jesus taught.
It may seem that way to you now, ja4, because you don’t yet understand the Teachings. But any examination of your posts will show that you are much more Catholic today than you were a year ago! Just goes to show where there is life, there is hope!
The truth that Jesus died to save us from our sins is not “clouded” in the Catholic Church, ja4. It may seem clouded to you because your perceptions are clouded. There are no doctrines in the Catholic Church that cloud the saving work that Jesus did on the cross.
No, I dont’ think so. John has Jesus and the Apostles in the upper room on Thursday of the week, so that he can show that Jesus, the Lamb of God, is sacrificed on Passover, to take the place of the passover lamb.
Because the purpose of the scripture is to communicate the Revelation of God, not science or history.
Of course there are. Look closely at the marian doctrines and the things said about her i.e. she is an Advocate, co-redemer and may in the future be proclaimed as spouse of the Holy Spirit. Or take purgatory which is a denial of the complete sufficency of the death of Christ.
They are not protestant nor Christian either.
How do you know they were not repeating verbatim God’s words…? If this is true then the words of Jesus as recorded by John 12:49-50 is a lie. Notice what is said here:
If the word of God is “not something written on paper, but written on the heart…” then what the church calls the Bible is no different than the phone book.
Hello, Just Asking.
I do have a passion and a conviction to defend the Scriptures. If the Scriptures are incorrect on details we can check on then we really can’t have confidence it what it says about things we can’t check on. Jesus Himself certainly considered the Scriptures to be the very Word of God which would mean without error. In fact He rebuked the Pharisees for misunderstanding them.
I don’t think this follows. If God is a God of truth and wants to reveal truth to us then the historical and scientific facts must also be correct. If the Scriptures are incorrect on some point then either God has lied or the writers of Scriptures were liars or sloppy. If any of these choices are correct then it would undermine the Scriptures.
Not so. The scriptures never state the age of the earth although there are those who try to. As for the sun revolving around the earth that is how it looks to observers on the earth and would be considered correct. No different than when the weatherman says the the sun will “rise” tomorrow at 6. Is the weatherman correct when he says this even though its not how it would be described scienctifically?
Not so. The Scriptures are absolutely essential in understanding Who God is. It is the Scriptures that “feed” my faith in God.
I’m confused here. How can you believe something to be true but not a fact?
I’m aware that there have been times when the scriptures mention something that there was no proof of it. If i’m correct years ago it was believed that the Scriptures were incorrect in saying there was a civilization of the Cannanites or some such people. Today we know otherwise. Another example was there for the longest time there was no evidence for Pilate. Again, evidence was found. Somethings still have not been proven but we should wait since the Scriptures have such a good record of being proven true.
i agree. I think this is caused by a number of factors. One is that most protestants don’t know it that well. Secondly most don’t know or have studied some of the issues you bring up and see how many of these objections have been answered. I suspect most would not know how to address some of the issues you bring up and believe that these problems are insurmontable.
i agree. However, what i suspect happens to those that don’t look for answers have a low view of Scripture and God as it appears you do can’t really have much confidence in the Scriptures. If you believe that God is the all powerful Creator and came in flesh, did miracles and died and rose again, then to believe that He could also communicate the truth to us in written form is not that great of a feat in comparison to what He has already done.
They are only obstacles to the unbelieving, ja4. To a person who resists the Teachings of Jesus and the Apostolic Authority He appointed, there will always be some obstacle. If you were not tripping over Mary, it would be some other doctrine. But this is the role that God appointed for Mary in the Church. It is through her that the thoughts of many hearts are revealed. Rebellion of the heart is quickly seen in those that reject Mary’s role in the kingdom of heaven.
Hello, I’m back. [Sylvia is recovering from surgery beautifully, thanks be to God.] I was saying that Jesus, Who is God, is one Person, both human and divine; not one divine person and one human person. Since a mother is a mother of a person, Mary is the mother of the Person, Jesus, Who is God. So, she is properly called the Mother of God, even though she is not the origin of His divine nature. (Elizabeth calls her, “the mother of my Lord.” Luke 1:43 )
I struggled with Marian doctrine for many more than one year. Marian doctrine was my biggest hurdle in overcoming my practically congenital opposition to the Catholic Faith. About seven years before I joined the Catholic Church, I told a Catholic acquaintance who sent me a newsletter called “Imitators of the Holy Family” that there was no way I would ever become Catholic.
What was the nature of your “obstacle” in regards to the marian doctrines? Why was this a hurdle for you?I struggled with Marian doctrine for many more than one year. Marian doctrine was my biggest hurdle in overcoming my practically congenital opposition to the Catholic Faith. About seven years before I joined the Catholic Church, I told a Catholic acquaintance who sent me a newsletter called “Imitators of the Holy Family” that there was no way I would ever become Catholic.
How grateful I am that she never stopped praying for me.
Cathy
Hi Justasking,
Did you read or discuss these marian doctrines with a knowldegeable biblical protestant?
Let me encourage you to study these marian doctrines with the scriptures. See if the Scriptures do teach that we are to honor Mary as our mother or that she is to be prayed to. Does Jesus or His apostles promote these kinds of things?
ja4, it seems that you are trying to use CAF as a venue to discourage sincere persons from becoming Catholic by redirecting them to “a knowledgeable biblical Protestant”. I will take this opportunity to point out that this environment was created to answer questions about Catholicism, not as an opportunity for you to evangelize people to “biblical protestantism”. You may need to create your own board for that.
Scriptures do not “teach” ja4, people teach. However, we read clearly in the scripture that we are to honor our mother and father, and that those who are grafted into Christ will have many more mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers. We also read Jesus giving His mother to “the beloved disciple” at the foot of the cross (who is not named). In this we receive that all beloved disciples that come to the foot of the cross also come to where HIs mother stands. John writes about a woman who gives birth to the Son of God:
Hi Justasking,
It’s because the original sin of protestantism is the destruction of unity. That’s what they did in the XVI century and that’s what they will be always doing. It’s unstoppable. There’s also a sin of pride and disobedience: I’ve got my own brain, I know better, nobody 's gonna tell me what to do and what to believe in, I’m good and clever enough to have my own “church”, that’s my right to be the leader of the “church”, I’ll get rid of those sinners and there will be only good ones with me, I’ll show them how to be succesful, God knows I’m right. That’s the protestant way of thinking so don’t be surprised too much by what they are doing.