Scripture does not interpret itself

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Precisely an object cannot speak but those with wills can such as God and the writers can. I’m not denying the Bible is divinely inspired or anything like that.

Would it be easy believism if I replaced with my Bible instead of my church? The fact remains those who follow sola scriptura and the church are doing more than parroting. There’s a reason why Catholics trust what’s said in the Church which is connected to Sacred Tradition and Apostolic Succession. Just I’m sure there’s more than “I believe it because my bible says so.”
Is there a difference saying ‘I believe it because I’ve studied the Bible and am convinced that’s what the Bible says. Let me show you the verses’ or saying ‘I believe it because my church teaches me that this is true’?
 

You said the Bible is an object. How can an object speak?​

It’s easy believism when one says I believe it because I was taught it from my church.
That Church which was the ONLY one Divinely Instituted by Christ ,supported by Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition.If scripture is not a matter of one’s own private interpretation,this means that Scripture isa matter of public interprtation,a gift that has been entrusted by Christ to the ONLY Church He founded the visible Holy Catholic Church that infallibly established thecanon of scripture under the guidance of the H.S.,

Those who interpret the Scriptures privately outside the Living Tradition of the Catholic Church become their own arbiters of the Truth and the demonstrably real subscribers in thought and action to “easy believism” otherwise known as seeking God in one’s mirror.Scripture needs to breathe in the natural waters that Christ prepared for It–in “the Way” or more contemporarily known as the Catholic Church.Private interpretation can lead people to fall into serious error and risk or forfeit theur salvation…ST PETER warns,"There are some things in them that are hard to understand which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction as they do with other scriptures.( 1 PET 3;16)

Thus the Divine Word needs a Divine Interpreter,the Catholic Church who is guided by the Holy Spirit into all Truth.Absent such a Divinely inspired interpreter we would be confused to which the thousands and thousands of protestant denominations testify and attest to.God is not the author of such confusion.Heretical MEN are.Men who subscribe to “easy believism”,the spirit who guides these men and sows discord,confusion and grevious error is not the Holy Spirit,but another one who delights in his work.
 
Is there a difference saying ‘I believe it because I’ve studied the Bible and am convinced that’s what the Bible says. Let me show you the verses’ or saying ‘I believe it because my church teaches me that this is true’?
The Church not the Bible is the" Pillar and foundation of all Truth."Now why would St Timothy say THAT in the BIBLE?Because He Realised that Infallible Holy Scripture requires an Holy and Infallible interpreter which is the Pillar and foundation of all Truth of which Holy Scripture is an integral part…Please read the whole Bible not just those bits and pieces which support your very fallible belief system.
 
Is there a difference saying ‘I believe it because I’ve studied the Bible and am convinced that’s what the Bible says. Let me show you the verses’ or saying ‘I believe it because my church teaches me that this is true’?
This is the same question I asked you. Given that the Church teaching covers Sacred Tradition, the Bible and the Magestrium, there’s some studying involved. Man is a rational animal, not a parrot whether he be a Protestant or Catholic. There’s gotta be something to satisfy the intellect to believe the teaching.

Care to answer my question?
 
The Church not the Bible is the" Pillar and foundation of all Truth."Now why would St Timothy say THAT in the BIBLE?Because He Realised that Infallible Holy Scripture requires an Holy and Infallible interpreter which is the Pillar and foundation of all Truth of which Holy Scripture is an integral part…Please read the whole Bible not just those bits and pieces which support your very fallible belief system.
The question then is, is your understanding of the church Jesus founded to be the pillar correct?
 
Precisely an object cannot speak but those with wills can such as God and the writers can. I’m not denying the Bible is divinely inspired or anything like that.

Would it be easy believism if I replaced with my Bible instead of my church? The fact remains those who follow sola scriptura and the church are doing more than parroting. There’s a reason why Catholics trust what’s said in the Church which is connected to Sacred Tradition and Apostolic Succession. Just I’m sure there’s more than “I believe it because my bible says so.”
Is this the question you want me to answer? If so, I really don’t understand the question. Please expain or restate.
 
according to that logic that’s how we end up with 33,000+protestant denominations all believing that they alone are correct and the other 29,999+ don’t have the Holy Spirit.That is of course illogical as the Holy Spirit cannot contradict Himself.It is definitive evidence that the interpretation is being done by mere men according to their own wills and prejudices,certainly not under the guidance of the Holy Spirit,who cannot lie.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
  1. Maybe you have a “problem” with self designating self as the sole, authoritative interpreter of Scripture. If so, I agree! But there is only one that does that. It’s The Catholic Church. Read your Catechism # 85. You will find NOTHING like it form ANY OTHER than The Catholic Church (well, all the cults do but let’s keep this discussion focused on indisputable Christians).
  2. Maybe you have a “problem” with self declaring that The Holy Spirit only guides self and that there’s only one that infallibly follows that guiding: self. If so, I agree! But there’s only one that does that: The Catholic Church. NO OTHER (cults excluded again) that so claims either of these things.
  3. Maybe you have a “problem” with self declaring that self MUST be correct because self alone agrees with self alone. If so, I agree! I find ZERO relevance of self agreeing with self to self being correct. It’s true that The Catholic Church alone agrees with The Catholic Church alone so that The Catholic Church as a unity of just one: self with self. Clearly, all OTHER teachers have AT LEAST so much!!! Obviously, undeniably, it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with that teacher being correct. Obviously. It’s one of the silliest apologetics ever.
  4. To the point of this thread. I don’t like the expression: “Scripture interprets itself” (even though Lutherans occasionally use it). It’s misleading and not precise. Technically, Scripture CANNOT interpret anything. What this HERMENEUTICAL principle is referring to is what is more precisely called “systemmatics.” It’s used in all literary interpretation - not just of Scripture. If I’m reading one of Mark Twain’s books (which I haven’t done in many years, lol), and I come across some word or theme - say Indians. And I want to understand what MARK TWAIN means by that, systemmatics means I look to other places in his writings where this word and theme appears - primarily in the same book but perhaps going to other writings of his, as well. As all these are put together (“systemmatically” - hence the term), as we see them together - they, in a sense, clarify each other - and we get a fuller, more complete picture on this subject - from the author himself. THIS is what Protestants mean by “Scripture interprets Scripture.” My Catholic teacher insisted it’s actually a very helpful approach and that Catholics often use it, too.
Thank you.

Pax
  • Josiah
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The question then is, is your understanding of the church Jesus founded to be the pillar correct?
Absolutely.The visible Catholic Church founded on St Peter,the first Pope is the Pillar and Foundation of all Truth,not Holy Scripture which is part of the triumverate of Holy Tradition, the Holy Catholic Church(the magisterium,teaching authority) and the written Holy Scripture which constitute in their totality the Word of God.
 
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
  1. Maybe you have a “problem” with self designating self as the sole, authoritative interpreter of Scripture. If so, I agree! But there is only one that does that. It’s The Catholic Church. Read your Catechism # 85. You will find NOTHING like it form ANY OTHER than The Catholic Church (well, all the cults do but let’s keep this discussion focused on indisputable Christians).
  2. Maybe you have a “problem” with self declaring that The Holy Spirit only guides self and that there’s only one that infallibly follows that guiding: self. If so, I agree! But there’s only one that does that: The Catholic Church. NO OTHER (cults excluded again) that so claims either of these things.
  3. Maybe you have a “problem” with self declaring that self MUST be correct because self alone agrees with self alone. If so, I agree! I find ZERO relevance of self agreeing with self to self being correct. It’s true that The Catholic Church alone agrees with The Catholic Church alone so that The Catholic Church as a unity of just one: self with self. Clearly, all OTHER teachers have AT LEAST so much!!! Obviously, undeniably, it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with that teacher being correct. Obviously. It’s one of the silliest apologetics ever.
  4. To the point of this thread. I don’t like the expression: “Scripture interprets itself” (even though Lutherans occasionally use it). It’s misleading and not precise. Technically, Scripture CANNOT interpret anything. What this HERMENEUTICAL principle is referring to is what is more precisely called “systemmatics.” It’s used in all literary interpretation - not just of Scripture. If I’m reading one of Mark Twain’s books (which I haven’t done in many years, lol), and I come across some word or theme - say Indians. And I want to understand what MARK TWAIN means by that, systemmatics means I look to other places in his writings where this word and theme appears - primarily in the same book but perhaps going to other writings of his, as well. As all these are put together (“systemmatically” - hence the term), as we see them together - they, in a sense, clarify each other - and we get a fuller, more complete picture on this subject - from the author himself. THIS is what Protestants mean by “Scripture interprets Scripture.” My Catholic teacher insisted it’s actually a very helpful approach and that Catholics often use it, too.
Thank you.

Pax
  • Josiah
I’ll do you several better:

I fully accept that the Catholic Church makes these breathtakingly outrageous claims else I would not be a Catholic.No other Church would DARE to make these claims but ours does because its author is Jesus Christ Himself,not a disgruntled King,nor a Saxon priest who suffered from scrupulosity,nor any of the other thousands of men who attempted to recreate God and His Church in their own finite empiracle image.

The apostles entrusted the “Sacred deposit” of the faith (the depositum fidei),45 contained in Sacred Scripture and Tradition, to the whole of the Church. "By adhering to [this heritage] the entire holy people, united to its pastors, remains always faithful to the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. So, in maintaining, practicing and professing the faith that has been handed on, there should be a remarkable harmony between the bishops and the faithful."46

The Magisterium of the Church

85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.

86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."48

87 Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me”,49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.

I certainly ascribe to #85 as it is fully supported in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.Please read #86 and #87 to understand the fullness of this statement which to you is obviously an outrageous claim.The Catholic Church as instituted and constituted by Christ is necessarily a Divine Institution and whose inerrant veracity and dogmatic infallibility cannot be compared to other “teachers” who are self described and self appointed and who have originated from the wellspring of error and heresy.
 
If you think I haven’t tested my faith and fully confirmed it from Holy Scripture then you are a foolish man/woman.Its quite simple to drop bon mots and engage in strawman attack and then run for the hills without engaging in theological debate and being forced into supporting your spurious contentions.That is the tact of the playground bully or pamphleteer.
 
Is this the question you want me to answer? If so, I really don’t understand the question. Please expain or restate.
Pithy statemements and clever retorts do not an arguement make.I’ve read your posts on this board and they follow a discernable pattern.Challenging unsupported statement.Unsupported retort,Cutesy answering a question with a question.Disappearance.Reemergence with no additional substance and unwillingness to engage in debate.I’ve seen a hundred posters like you and I’ll see a hundred more.Don’t bother replying,I’m done with you.You commit the greatest sin on this board…you are BORING and an utter waste of bandwidth…
 
If you think I haven’t tested my faith and fully confirmed it from Holy Scripture then you are a foolish man/woman.Its quite simple to drop bon mots and engage in strawman attack and then run for the hills without engaging in theological debate and being forced into supporting your spurious contentions.That is the tact of the playground bully or pamphleteer.
:eek:
 
I fail to see theappropriateness of the emoticon you displayed. If you’ve got something to say,say it and be preprepared to back it up.Your hit and run emoticon usage is the equivalent of an "intellectual"grafito which contributes nothing but reveals voluumes adout such an intelectually limited poster.Don’t bother,you just make yourself appear credulous and rather a sycophant ramora fish to the poster i was originally spanking.😛
 
I almost started another thread, but this one seems to cover the subject I was wanting to discuss. That is, how are we to read the Bible?

Some Protestants say the Holy Spirit is the interpreter of scriptures. To receive an interpretation stating this, one has to read a discussion between Christ and only His Apostles and then apply that discussion to themselves. This seems, to me, to be putting one’s self into a position of authority the same as the Apostles, only without receiving an appointment, ordination, as the Apostles received from Christ.

I read the same passage and see the discussion between Christ and only the Apostles and learn how Jesus taught the Apostles that they could have confidence in teaching His truth, in His earthly absence. As a layperson, I have learned to also have confidence in the appointed men of the Church.

In my opinion, there are stories of instruction when Christ specifically spoke only to His Apostles and there are sermons to the multitudes that everyone can apply directly to themselves.

Where does the Bible tell us that the scriptures are speaking to each and every individual on everything written and everything written is to be applied to each and every one of us individually?
 
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