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wmscott
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the list you provide, is this your view of the Catholic Church?
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schaick
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Exodus 20How can the bible contradict the church that wrote it.
Matthew
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
I haven’t seen this lately but there was a time when the Catholic Church said that the wearing of certain medals could ward off dangers or protect the wearer.
One of my Catholic friend had a medal. I read the back of it or a card that came with it-can’t remember. It said that it was the actual medal that had the power to ward off dangers or protect the wearer. She was cetainly surprised and immediatly took the medal off.
Do Catholics worship the Eucharist?
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wmscott
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We worship God and God alone
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Prodigal_Son1
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Before I begin on this subject, would you please tell me how infant baptism conflicts with scriptures?
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Prodigal_Son1
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The Catholic Church is most definately a cult, and I’m sure you will agree. We are a cult of the Nazarene.
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Prodigal_Son1
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Please understand my invitation to Dokimas was not an invitation for a free for all to derail this thread. If you wish to discuss anything, I would be more than happy, as I believe other Catholics would be, to join you on a thread.
Now on your topic of holy things protecting, here’s a little passage for food for thought.
**Act 19:11 And God wrought by the hand of Paul more than common miracles.
Act 19:12 So that even there were brought from his body to the sick, handkerchiefs and aprons: and the diseases departed from them: and the wicked spirits went out of them. **
The consecrated host is Christ. It’s call the real presence, His body, blood, soul and divinity. We worship Jesus Christ.
Now, let’s take a close look at the passage you provided.
Did you purposefully choose a version that uses the word ‘idol’? The King James Version states it as follows: Asking if we worship the Eucharist is like us asking if you worship your Bible…
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
But idol is the intent behind this message, which means we are to have no gods before Him.
Now, if we read the verse real carefully, a picture is a graven image. ‘…any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath…’ ANY THING on earth is forbidden if we accept your interpretation. Family pictures, pictures of Jesus, even YOUR driver’s license has an image of something on this earth.
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schaick
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It is simply a list of signs of a cult.
Here are more:
Is the main focus of your group member recruitment and fund raising?
Does your group have an authoritative power structure?
Does your leader center veneration on himself by members?
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wmscott
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Why the evasiveness in your answers, why not just be straight forward, or is there some covert intentions concerning your posts. This does give the appearance of deceit, do not hide in the shadows, just come out into the light and answer in simple terms. Because, if you think you are planting little seeds of dissent regarding the Catholic Church, it is failing. This is nothing more than regurgitating from the anti-Catholic playbook, nothing new under the sun here.
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schaick
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Not trying to derail, but when a contradiction to scripture was asked I thought of those 2 things.
We agree I think. A graven image is an idol, something to represent and worship as GOD, as gods. A photogragh of a person is** not an idol and so not a graven image**.
But that made me think of the presence in the Eucharist and the way Catholics treat it.
I also believe in the presence of Jesus in, under and with the Bread and Wine, but it also requires that the Eucharists be consumed. So if the Eucharist drops on the ground it is not Jesus on the ground simply the wafer or wine.
Leftover Eucharist does not continue to have the presence, so is consecrated for the next communion.
I think it is a very fair question, the wafer and wine is man-made. Pagans made idols that they thought had special powers.
And so I asked do Catholics the worship the Eucharist?
Back to the medals-
Can a pray from a lay person be as powerful as a medal for protection and warding off danger? Does the person -blessing the medal have more power?
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wmscott
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And I answered that NO, we worship God and God alone. Did you miss my post?
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Prodigal_Son1
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Once consecrated, the presence exists. If you care to provide scripture refuting that, we’d be interested in seeing it.
Do Protestants worship their Bibles? It’s a fair question, if yours is fair. You don’t place something Holy from God as an idol. The graven images is in reference to an image of ANY THING on earth. What the Old Testament is teaching us is, you shall have no OTHER gods before Him.
Can you measure God’s power and decide what ‘tools’ He chooses to work through? Can you judge the efficacy of each and every individual who prays? Why did the relics brought from Paul’s body depart diseases and wicked spirits? Why didn’t those men who wrote about Paul’s relics simply pray instead of using relics?
**Act 19:11 And God wrought by the hand of Paul more than common miracles.
Act 19:12 So that even there were brought from his body to the sick, handkerchiefs and aprons: and the diseases departed from them: and the wicked spirits went out of them. **
In my opinion, you’ve presented no contradictions.
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Prodigal_Son1
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It seems our brother would rather work under a presumption of what we believe, rather than let us tell him what we believe.
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Prodigal_Son1
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Does your Church do this?
Is there an authoritative power in your Church that can excommunicate members, for any reason?
Our leader is Christ. If you speak of His Vicar on earth, no he does not do this. Does your Church leaders do this?
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wmscott
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schaick, if you want your questions answered, then it would be appreciated if you would answer the ones asked of you. Please do not be a troll or drive by poster.
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Dokimas
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I think the confusion came because you said the Eucharist is Jesus: His Body and Blood, soul and divinity.
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Prodigal_Son1
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Then how can it ‘contradict’ the Bible? The Bible being the only authority is not the Bible. People privately interpreting scriptures for themselves is not in the Bible. The Bible does not say the Holy Spirit will teach each person the interpretation of scriptures.
You see where this is going. Now, besides it not being the Bible ‘specifically’ to meet your satisfaction, what is your objections to infant baptism? Afterall, it’s not specifically worded that infant baptism is wrong in the Bible either.
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wmscott
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True
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Dokimas
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If the evidence points to baptism being for those who have repented then babies are excluded because they can’t repent. If the evidence points to baptism for those who have made some sort of choice, then babies are excluded because they can’t choose. ETC.
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wmscott
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What does the Bible say about human cloning or embryonic stem cell research?
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