Scripture in the Catholic Mass

[Reuben_J]

Interesting, you mean whatever is written inside the Sunday Missal is identical worldwide?

Hi Sam. Yes, the Sunday Missal is identical anywhere at all. The more than one billion Catholics worldwide would more or less do the same thing during the mass. There are slight varieties among the difference rites though. The Sunday mass Bible readings are rotated every three years while the weekday mass every two years. During this period you would cover the entire Bible.

The Catholic Church has the advantage of being One because of the central authority in the Pope and so her worship (the mass) is the same everywhere. In fact regardless of your spoken language, you can attend the mass anywhere on the face of the earth, and yet be able to understand and to celebrate what’s going on. It’s amazing when we think about this oneness. I am always struck by this as I see Catholics do the same thing everywhere in the world. I travel widely and this is one aspect that really touches me as I attend mass in other parts of the world.

Be they Africans or Asians, their mass is all the same. Sometimes during an international conference you’d be totally amazed at how the priests, the Bishops and the Cardinals would know their place and when they celebrate the mass they know exactly what to do, even their body movement is the same. The mass really demonstrates the oneness of the Church.

If you watched the funeral mass of the late Pope John Paul II many years back you would notice that the multitude of Catholics who came from very corner of the earth to attend this mass would know and understand what’s going on and they were able to participate in it meaningfully even if they did not understand the language being used.

God bless.

 

[JRKH]

Interesting, you mean whatever is written inside the Sunday Missal is identical worldwide?

In all it’s essentials, yes it is identical. The universal Church uses the missal that is prepared and distributed by the Vatican in Latin. The only “variance” might come from translation issues from Latin to the vernacular. For instance in the U.S. we are currently preparing for a new Missal next Advent that “corrects” some translation issues in the old missal.

Also, when I read once the Sunday Missal I have noticed that it ends in the 3ed week of November not the 4th week of December, why is that?

The reason for this is that the missal reflects the “liturgical year” which begins with Advent, and not the “Calender Year”.

Hope this helps

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Hi,

no the Orthodox haven’t added anything (except maybe 2 Esdras). They use more or less the whole septuagint. (See my previous post to you).

The Protestants use the Jewish Canon. I don’t see where your problem is.
Or tell me one important story of the deuterocanonical books that we lack because we don’t use them and consider them as apocryphal.

The Bereans didn’t need the what we call NT now because they had the teachings of the Apostles (you’re so famous Tradition). - This was later on canonized and is now called the NT.

So, actually, I still don’t get your point…

Esdra

Excuse me for butting into the conversation here but as to the issue of the Deutero’s I would like to make two points.

The first is the specific point of what might be contained in them that protestants lack.
One example relates to Purgatory and Praying for the dead. Something clearly accepted by Catholics and rejected by the majority of Protesants.
From HERE
In 2 Macabees 12:44-46. In this passage Judas Macabee and his men had found, in the bodies of their fallen comrades, “tokens of the idols of Jamnia, which the Law forbids the Jews to wear.” As a result, “they turned to prayer, beseeching that the sin which has been committed might be wholly blotted out…for if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead…Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.” This passage shows the practice and attitude of the Jews before the time of Jesus. They PRAYED for their dead and still do today.
While It can be said that there is much in the Deuteros’ that is not essential, the same could be said for other OT books.

In a more general sense, the difference in the canon between the RC and the Protestants goes to the very core of Protestantism and it’s reliance on Sola or Prima Scriptura apart from the authority of The Church.
The Protestant “fathers” held Scripture (The Bible) up as THE rule of faith, God Breathed, and all that is necessary being contained therein.
Now when they said this, the Bible they (in the western church) were familiar with, the one they were holing up was the same one that was approved a millenia earlier. The one containing 73 books.
Yet early on, and continuing for some time, these same people who held up the “Holy Scriptures” as all that was needed, debated what constituted “Holy Scripture” first seperating out the deutero’s to their own section and finally dropping them from the bibles all together.
So - the very same people who hold up The Bible as the “Sole rule of Faith”, and quote (as you did earlier) 2 Tim 3:15, “All Scripture is God breathed…” as a justification, immediately began to restrict what was to be considered “All scripture” to less than what had been accepted as “All Scripture” by the Western church for 1000 years prior to the reformation.
In short, the Protestant Fathers Held up the Bible as the pure and ultimate Rule and then proceeded to change it.

Peace
James

 

[Esdra]

Hi

thank you for this post. That’s very intersting. I didn’t know that Purgatory and Praying for the Dead are scriptural (when you consider the deuterocanonical Books as part of the Holy Bible).
I’ve always thought that this is another part of Tradition (like the ascending of Mary into heaven).
I was really wondering when I’ve begun studying the Holy Bible more into details where the praying for the dead (and the linked purgatory), which both are essential for the Catholic belief, come from.
Now I know, thank you.
Are there any other parts in the deuterocanonical books that are of significance in Catholicism?

Esdra

PS: I guess it’s better starting up a new thread. → HERE. We are ripping apart the OP.

Excuse me for butting into the conversation here but as to the issue of the Deutero’s I would like to make two points.

The first is the specific point of what might be contained in them that protestants lack.
One example relates to Purgatory and Praying for the dead. Something clearly accepted by Catholics and rejected by the majority of Protesants.
From HERE
In 2 Macabees 12:44-46. In this passage Judas Macabee and his men had found, in the bodies of their fallen comrades, “tokens of the idols of Jamnia, which the Law forbids the Jews to wear.” As a result, “they turned to prayer, beseeching that the sin which has been committed might be wholly blotted out…for if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead…Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.” This passage shows the practice and attitude of the Jews before the time of Jesus. They PRAYED for their dead and still do today.
While It can be said that there is much in the Deuteros’ that is not essential, the same could be said for other OT books.

In a more general sense, the difference in the canon between the RC and the Protestants goes to the very core of Protestantism and it’s reliance on Sola or Prima Scriptura apart from the authority of The Church.
The Protestant “fathers” held Scripture (The Bible) up as THE rule of faith, God Breathed, and all that is necessary being contained therein.
Now when they said this, the Bible they (in the western church) were familiar with, the one they were holing up was the same one that was approved a millenia earlier. The one containing 73 books.
Yet early on, and continuing for some time, these same people who held up the “Holy Scriptures” as all that was needed, debated what constituted “Holy Scripture” first seperating out the deutero’s to their own section and finally dropping them from the bibles all together.
So - the very same people who hold up The Bible as the “Sole rule of Faith”, and quote (as you did earlier) 2 Tim 3:15, “All Scripture is God breathed…” as a justification, immediately began to restrict what was to be considered “All scripture” to less than what had been accepted as “All Scripture” by the Western church for 1000 years prior to the reformation.
In short, the Protestant Fathers Held up the Bible as the pure and ultimate Rule and then proceeded to change it.

Peace
James

 

[KathleenGee]

Sam,

No one is forced to contribute. The church has its own expenses, and we all freely contribute.

As someone else here noted, the liturgical year ends on the feast day of Christ the King—His coronation so to speak in His glorified state and that is in the latter part of November. November is also the month we remember our dead…November 2, and some priests have black vestments to pray for our deceased in their purgation.

The liturgical year begins with Advent…the coming of the Savior, Emmanuel. The colors change as well. Violet, a blueish purple, represents Advent…you see it in vestments and depending on the individual church other decorations. We have an Advent wreath to be lighted at the beginning of the Mass…there are 4, 3 are violet, one is pink for third Sunday of Advent.

On individual days, we have red for a feast day of a martyr or blue for Mother Mary.

Forget at moment what the pink means.

Christmas is white…representing the feast of the Eucharist. It goes for 8 days. Then we have the Epiphany, the feast of the Child King…3 wisemen…After this, we go into ordinary time—every day living, in green.

Then we go into Lent…purple for 6 weeks, penance. When Easter comes, we go back to white, the feast of the Easter/Resurrection/Eucharist. The following Sunday is Divine Mercy Sunday…you should learn about this feast…came out of Poland during WWII.

Forty days after Easter, we then have Pentecost…the coming of the Holy Spirit to start and empower the Church, in red. Then we go back to ordinary time, green.

 

[JRKH]

Hi

thank you for this post. That’s very intersting. I didn’t know that Purgatory and Praying for the Dead are scriptural (when you consider the deuterocanonical Books as part of the Holy Bible).
I’ve always thought that this is another part of Tradition (like the ascending of Mary into heaven).
I was really wondering when I’ve begun studying the Holy Bible more into details where the praying for the dead (and the linked purgatory), which both are essential for the Catholic belief, come from.
Now I know, thank you.
Are there any other parts in the deuterocanonical books that are of significance in Catholicism?

Esdra

Esdra,
OK, I will comment on that thread.

Peace
James
PS: I guess it’s better starting up a new thread. → HERE. We are ripping apart the OP.

 

[Theophorus]

Sam,

The liturgical year begins with Advent…the coming of the Savior, Emmanuel. The colors change as well. Violet, a blueish purple, represents Advent…you see it in vestments and depending on the individual church other decorations. We have an Advent wreath to be lighted at the beginning of the Mass…there are 4, 3 are violet, one is pink for third Sunday of Advent.

On individual days, we have red for a feast day of a martyr or blue for Mother Mary.

Forget at moment what the pink means.

Its not pink exactly, officially is a rose colour something closer to salmon than pink. and mirrors the vestments priests can wear on these two sundays. it is linked to the penitential nature of the seasons of Lent and Advent (the fasting before the feasting as it were) on Laetare Sunday in lent and Gaudete Sunday in advent the Church lessened her penances in expectation of the great things to come as both Sundays are just after the halfway mark in each season it was a good time to remind people what they were looking forward to. there is also a white Candle for Christmas itself

Blue vestments can only be used at particular Marian shrines and certain geographical areas as tradition dictates. and White/Gold vestments are also used for those Saints who weren’t martyred

God Bless

 

[Esdra]

Excuse me for butting into the conversation here but as to the issue of the Deutero’s I would like to make two points.

The first is the specific point of what might be contained in them that protestants lack.
One example relates to Purgatory and Praying for the dead. Something clearly accepted by Catholics and rejected by the majority of Protesants.
From HERE

Hi,

in your link above I found the following sentences:

Purgatory is described as a prison in Matthew 5:26 where “You will never get out till you have paid the last penny.” In hell there is nothing to be paid back. You are in there forever. Surely this passage, as well as the passage from 1 Peter 3:19 where** Jesus “preached to the spirits in prison”** do not refer to hell. Jesus has nothing to say to the eternally damned in hell.

For me this sounds like the CC also believes, just like the Mormons (LDS), that Jesus is going to preach to the souls in purgatory (prison, to be accuarte). (?!)

I didn’t know that. Is this true?

in Christ,
Esdra

 

[Sam_777]

The Catholic Church has the advantage of being One because of the central authority in the Pope and so her worship (the mass) is the same everywhere. In fact regardless of your spoken language, you can attend the mass anywhere on the face of the earth, and yet be able to understand and to celebrate what’s going on.

The reason for this is that the missal reflects the “liturgical year” which begins with Advent, and not the “Calender Year”.

No one is forced to contribute. The church has its own expenses, and we all freely contribute.

Thanks Reuben, James, and Kathleen, it’s really amazing to know that the Sunday Mass is identical worldwide regardless of language…http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon3.gif

all…

 

[KathleenGee]

You are welcome, Sam…I am thinking of explaining more of Scripture from the Exodus, Moses…and modern understanding of the sacraments, in particular the Liturgy of the Eucharist…

I worked on a patient all last night and now some things have come up…cold weather coming and my son and I are going to look at some really good firewood seasoned beyond 2 years… We may even go get our Christmas tree today!!