Scripture interpretation for Catholics

[twinc]

The ruling for Catholics is as per the last entry, by Salsa, at www.galileowaswrong.com and impending Catholic conference in November - twinc

 

[StTommyMore]

The ruling for Catholics is as per the last entry, by Salsa, at www.galileowaswrong.com and impending Catholic conference in November - twinc

There are four senses to Scripture. You cannot simply ignore the spiritual senses. Furthermore, I know that “Joshua stopping the sun” will come up. It is very poor exegesis and intelelctually dishonest to ignore the idea of writing from perception. The Joshua story is not asserting cosmology. The Joshua story asserts that the sun appeared to stop moving (IOW, the earth stopped rotating). This “conference” is a committee of fools.

 

[twinc]

There are four senses to Scripture. You cannot simply ignore the spiritual senses. Furthermore, I know that “Joshua stopping the sun” will come up. It is very poor exegesis and intelelctually dishonest to ignore the idea of writing from perception. The Joshua story is not asserting cosmology. The Joshua story asserts that the sun appeared to stop moving (IOW, the earth stopped rotating). This “conference” is a committee of fools.

we cannot and must not really concern ourselves with way out,weird and wacky ideas, false opinions,faulty conclusions but rely on our experts and specialists as advised by our Pope Pius XII in Humani Generis - so these Catholic experts and specialists are a committee of fools according to who - it seems you did not even read the reviews - if you wish to call one or more genius a fool,so be it - or perhaps you do really think the Church was or could really be wrong and Galileo right,so be it also - twinc

 

[StTommyMore]

we cannot and must not really concern ourselves with way out,weird and wacky ideas, false opinions,faulty conclusions but rely on our experts and specialists as advised by our Pope Pius XII in Humani Generis - so these Catholic experts and specialists are a committee of fools according to who - it seems you did not even read the reviews - if you wish to call one or more genius a fool,so be it - or perhaps you do really think the Church was or could really be wrong and Galileo right,so be it also - twinc

The Church may very well be wrong in matters of science.

 

[NHInsider]

we cannot and must not really concern ourselves with way out,weird and wacky ideas, false opinions,faulty conclusions but rely on our experts and specialists as advised by our Pope Pius XII in Humani Generis - so these Catholic experts and specialists are a committee of fools according to who - it seems you did not even read the reviews - if you wish to call one or more genius a fool,so be it - or perhaps you do really think the Church was or could really be wrong and Galileo right,so be it also - twinc

You cannot read Humani Generis without reference to Dei Verbum and other magesterial documents.

Dei Verbum Chapter 3
Therefore, since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings (5) for the sake of salvation. Therefore “all Scripture is divinely inspired and has its use for teaching the truth and refuting error, for reformation of manners and discipline in right living, so that the man who belongs to God may be efficient and equipped for good work of every kind” (2 Tim. 3:16-17, Greek text).

However, since God speaks in Sacred Scripture through men in human fashion, (6) the interpreter of Sacred Scripture, in order to see clearly what God wanted to communicate to us, should carefully investigate what meaning the sacred writers really intended, and what God wanted to manifest by means of their words.

To search out the intention of the sacred writers, attention should be given, among other things, to “literary forms.” For truth is set forth and expressed differently in texts which are variously historical, prophetic, poetic, or of other forms of discourse. The interpreter must investigate what meaning the sacred writer intended to express and actually expressed in particular circumstances by using contemporary literary forms in accordance with the situation of his own time and culture. (7) For the correct understanding of what the sacred author wanted to assert, due attention must be paid to the customary and characteristic styles of feeling, speaking and narrating which prevailed at the time of the sacred writer, and to the patterns men normally employed at that period in their everyday dealings with one another. (8)

 

[twinc]

The Church may very well be wrong in matters of science.

when you say Church,does this just connote friars and monks in their drab habits - this committee of fools does not include a single one of them but many scientists - come now be reasonable - twinc

 

[StTommyMore]

when you say Church,does this just connote friars and monks in their drab habits - this committee of fools does not include a single one of them but many scientists - come now be reasonable - twinc

When I say the Church, I mean the institution, not individuals. Those people aren’t scientists. Yo be a scientist, you start with data and draw conclusions. You do not start with conclusions and then find data. I am reasonable.

 

[twinc]

When I say the Church, I mean the institution, not individuals. Those people aren’t scientists. Yo be a scientist, you start with data and draw conclusions. You do not start with conclusions and then find data. I am reasonable.

where is this institution without individuals - do you think or know that the people you refer to are not theologians and/or scientists and long term experts and specialists in the study of both the disciplines of science and theology and know nothing about pseudo/phony data and conclusions etc - it seems they have done their research and debate and discussion as requested and required by Humani Generis - twinc

 

[StTommyMore]

where is this institution without individuals - do you think or know that the people you refer to are not theologians and/or scientists and long term experts and specialists in the study of both the disciplines of science and theology and know nothing about pseudo/phony data and conclusions etc - it seems they have done their research and debate and discussion as requested and required by humani generis - twinc

it is junk science. Period

 

[twinc]

You cannot read Humani Generis without reference to Dei Verbum and other magesterial documents.

what has Humani Generis got to do with Dei Verbum - I was quoting St.Augustine’s ruling re the interpretation of Scripture,taken up by Pope Leo XIII in Providentissimus Deus - twinc

 

[twinc]

it is junk science. Period

according to St Tommy.Period - twinc

 

[StTommyMore]

according to St Tommy.Period - twinc

I have studied this stuff on my own. Any time a “scientist” comes up with stupidity like geocentrism, it is due to intellectual dishonesty.

 

[twinc]

I have studied this stuff on my own. Any time a “scientist” comes up with stupidity like geocentrism, it is due to intellectual dishonesty.

according to St.Tommy - so it seems you do really accept that the creatures know more and better than their creator and that the words of fallible and phony men are superior and preferable to the word/s of God - enough said - twinc

 

[StTommyMore]

according to St.Tommy - so it seems you do really accept that the creatures know more and better than their creator and that the words of fallible and phony men are superior and preferable to the word/s of God - enough said - twinc

The Word of God does not assert geocentricism or heliocentricism, neither evolution nor creation. If you think it does, you need to learn proper hermeneutics.

 

[NHInsider]

what has Humani Generis got to do with Dei Verbum - I was quoting St.Augustine’s ruling re the interpretation of Scripture,taken up by Pope Leo XIII in Providentissimus Deus - twinc

You cited Humani Generis - twice.

The point of quoting Dei Verbum is that the Magesterium exists to discern and declare the Word to a changing world - and later documents of the Magesterium make clear and explicit statements that are contrary to the fundamentalist position you and this “committee” are defending - not contrary to the statements of the earlier councils and Popes, mind you, but contrary to your interpretation of those documents.

Also, and not incidentally, there is a moratorium on creation/evolution discussion, so this thread needs to stay on the topic of interpretation and away from accusations about “science.”

And on that topic, no matter what the qualifications of the members of this “committee,” they do not speak for the Magesterium and their opinions are no more binding on Catholics than those of the Jesus seminar or the St. Benedict center or any one else at any point along the spectrum.

 

[Vixit]

You people are aware that we have achieved spaceflight, right? That we have been to outer space several times and, in fact, have men in space at this very moment? Do you realize that? Do you also realize that those men are there because the intricate calculations required to get them there, take the motion of the earth into account? Are you also aware that, being in space, they can and have watched the earth rotate and orbit? It doesn’t seem like it. It seems more like I’m listening to people living in Galileo’s time discussing an issue that, in our time, has been resolved for centuries.

 

[StTommyMore]

You people are aware that we have achieved spaceflight, right? That we have been to outer space several times and, in fact, have men in space at this very moment? Do you realize that? Do you also realize that those men are there because the intricate calculations required to get them there, take the motion of the earth into account? Are you also aware that, being in space, they can and have watched the earth rotate and orbit? It doesn’t seem like it. It seems more like I’m listening to people living in Galileo’s time discussing an issue that, in our time, has been resolved for centuries.

Sometimes you have to forgo the obvious when dealing with people in a state of denial.

 

[Vixit]

Sometimes you have to forgo the obvious when dealing with people in a state of denial.

I certainly don’t want to be offensive, but to see creationists, flat-earthers, geo-centrics, etc, be deliberately ignorant in the face of overwhelming facts, just really gets me. The Church was not wrong about anything. Fallible men in the Church were wrong about things of science. No big deal. Scientists are often wrong, and when they are, if they are academically honest, they admit it, learn from it, and go on. Galileo was right, and the Church wasn’t wrong. I mean, unless I am ignorant of the manner in which Galileo was refuted. Did the Pope infallibly declare as Church doctrine that the earth is the center of the universe etc?

 

[twinc]

I certainly don’t want to be offensive, but to see creationists, flat-earthers, geo-centrics, etc, be deliberately ignorant in the face of overwhelming facts, just really gets me. The Church was not wrong about anything. Fallible men in the Church were wrong about things of science. No big deal. Scientists are often wrong, and when they are, if they are academically honest, they admit it, learn from it, and go on. Galileo was right, and the Church wasn’t wrong. I mean, unless I am ignorant of the manner in which Galileo was refuted. Did the Pope infallibly declare as Church doctrine that the earth is the center of the universe etc?

Fellow,fellows,guys,gals,boys and girls just understand that you are not the magisterium or Pope or Church and know very little of true worth about them that these experts and specialists do - once we get that imbedded where it should be we can proceed - none of this should arise if you really went to the website suggested-so here it is again www.galileowaswrong.com - just read the reviews down to the end and of course do not expect any or many from Evolutionists - scriptures and science and the church fathers etc are all about and full of geocentrisim.The problem is there are many with eyes that see not and ears that hear not and guess why and this is also found it scriptures -twinc

 

[StTommyMore]

Fellow,fellows,guys,gals,boys and girls just understand that you are not the magisterium or Pope or Church and know very little of true worth about them that these experts and specialists do - once we get that imbedded where it should be we can proceed - none of this should arise if you really went to the website suggested-so here it is again www.galileowaswrong.com - just read the reviews down to the end and of course do not expect any or many from Evolutionists - scriptures and science and the church fathers etc are all about and full of geocentrisim.The problem is there are many with eyes that see not and ears that hear not and guess why and this is also found it scriptures -twinc

I went, read the reviews, and quickly surmised that these so-called “scientists” could easily be outsmarted by a typical armadillo.