scripture question

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Luke 9: 43 And they were all amazed at the greatness of God. While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it. 46 An argument started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest. 47 Jesus, knowing their thoughts, took a little child and had him stand beside him. 48 Then he said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For he who is least among you all–he is the greatest.” 49 “Master,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.” 50 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”

Luke 22: 19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. 21 But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22 The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man who betrays him.” 23 They began to question among themselves which of them it might be who would do this. 24 Also a dispute arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. 25 Jesus said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26 But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. 27 For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves.

And of course, there is this incident:

Mark 10: Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to him. “Teacher,” they said, “we want you to do for us whatever we ask.” 36 “What do you want me to do for you?” he asked. 37 They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory.” 38 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said. “Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?” 39 “We can,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with, 40 but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared.” 41 When the ten heard about this, they became indignant with James and John. 42 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 43 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
In each one of these passages the point is to remind them they are servants above all else, to the point of being childlike. Even Christ who was greater than all, reminded them He was a servant among men.

The point is not to solve their argument or to appoint a greater one, but to have them remember God is the greater, they are but servants of God.

It does not take away the fact that Christ entrusted the Church to Peter and in doing so made Peter quite aware (the speech about binding and loosing) that the Church came first, not his status in the Church.
 
I think you forgot about some other exchanges.
No doubt I have forgotten some…as I said, there are a number. I also didn’t bother to list all those that I could recall…but what I didn’t forget and what I didn’t neglect to list is the one which sets out an express promise that Peter would be supreme (b/c it doesn’t exist). IMHO that promise must be read into the text by those who want to rely upon it.
 
Jesus said He was the Door.

Jesus said He was the Bread.

Jesus said He was the True Vine.

He is all those things metaphorically.
 

Mt 12:47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.”
Mt 12:48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “**Who is **My mother and who are My brothers?”
Mt 12:49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "Here are My mother and My brothers!​

When Jesus said ‘who is’ He used the Greek word ‘esti’. So, if it was really was the Blood and Body of Jesus then in these verses Jesus said Mary wasn’t His mother unless Jesus used metaphors.
 
Jesus said He was the Door.

Jesus said He was the Bread.

Jesus said He was the True Vine.

He is all those things metaphorically.

DoKimas,Thank you this is very good,.When Jesus said He was Door how many got up and left ( none it was a metaphorically,RIGHT
Now when He said His was true Vine how many got up and left ( none because ( because it was a meltaphorically) RIGHT , now when He said I,m bread and Wine how many got up and left now many,many WHY Because it is not a METAPHOIRICALLY
THANK YOU FOR YOUR POINT. and I do not think you are Cathloic or are you Cathloic. You may make a good one, Peace and have a great night and may God bless you and your.
 
DoKimas. The grapevine changes water in its root into grapes in its fruit.
. The Divine ‘Vine’ changed water into wine at Cana. John 2:1-10
. Later the Divine ‘Vine’ changed wine into His Precious Blood at the last supper. Matt 26:27-28
. Therefore, water is changed into the Blood of Christ.
. As long as the branch is attached to the ‘Vine’ and bears ‘fruit’ it will be spiritually nourished by the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.
. A branch that bears fruit is one who believes in Jesus Christ and who keeps His Commandments.
. What did Jesus mean when He said “Abide in Me”? The answer to that question can be found in John 6:56:
“HE WHO EATS MY FLESH AND DRINKS MY BLOOD, ABIDES IN ME AND I IN HIM.”
It is the “true presence” of our Lord in the Holy Eucharist, the food provided by the vine, so that eternal life is imparted into each and every branch and which allows the branches to bear fruit.

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he shall be cast outside as the branch and wither; and they shall gather them up and cast them into the fire, and they shall burn .” John 15:6
 
When Jesus said ‘who is’ He used the Greek word ‘esti’. So, if it was really was the Blood and Body of Jesus then in these verses Jesus said Mary wasn’t His mother unless Jesus used metaphors.
All this time I thought Jesus spoke Aramaic. :confused:
 
In Luke the I shall not drink of the fruit of the fine comes BEFORE He gives them His Body and Blood. He is not referring to what He gave changed but what He consumed in the normal course of the meal. So your belief that He refers to the Blood as wine is not true.
Matthew 26:27-29

Mark 14:23-25

These contradict Luke, and I can find no mention of the bread and wine used at the passover in John…
 
Thats odd I was thinking he only talk ARAMAIC and I think He may have talk a little IRISH I think He had Irish in Him remember He nexer Married and did not leave home until 30…ouch
 
Jesus said He was the Door.

Jesus said He was the Bread.

Jesus said He was the True Vine.

He is all those things metaphorically.

DoKimas,Thank you this is very good,.When Jesus said He was Door how many got up and left ( none it was a metaphorically,RIGHT
Now when He said His was true Vine how many got up and left ( none because ( because it was a meltaphorically) RIGHT , now when He said I,m bread and Wine how many got up and left now many,many WHY Because it is not a METAPHOIRICALLY
THANK YOU FOR YOUR POINT. and I do not think you are Cathloic or are you Cathloic. You may make a good one, Peace and have a great night and may God bless you and your.

To misunderstand the metaphor that He was a Door or a Vine isn’t offensive. To misunderstand about literally drinking His Blood and eating His Body (sounds like cannabalism), I hope you can admit, sounds offensive. BTW, to drink blood and eat human flesh was outlawed in the OT.​

The disciples didn’t understand but they knew that Jesus had the Words of Life therefore, inspite of misunderstanding, they were willing to stay.
 
DoKimas. The grapevine changes water in its root into grapes in its fruit.
. The Divine ‘Vine’ changed water into wine at Cana. John 2:1-10
. Later the Divine ‘Vine’ changed wine into His Precious Blood at the last supper. Matt 26:27-28
. Therefore, water is changed into the Blood of Christ.
. As long as the branch is attached to the ‘Vine’ and bears ‘fruit’ it will be spiritually nourished by the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.
. A branch that bears fruit is one who believes in Jesus Christ and who keeps His Commandments.
. What did Jesus mean when He said “Abide in Me”? The answer to that question can be found in John 6:56:
“HE WHO EATS MY FLESH AND DRINKS MY BLOOD, ABIDES IN ME AND I IN HIM.”
It is the “true presence” of our Lord in the Holy Eucharist, the food provided by the vine, so that eternal life is imparted into each and every branch and which allows the branches to bear fruit.

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he shall be cast outside as the branch and wither; and they shall gather them up and cast them into the fire, and they shall burn .” John 15:6

Looking at you, would anyone see that you have leaves and grapes growing from you?​

When Jesus instituted Communion at the Last Supper, did some of His Blood and part of His Body leave Him and enter the cup and the bread? If so, not all of Him suffered the next day.?.?
 
It is the “true presence” of our Lord in the Holy Eucharist, the food provided by the vine, so that eternal life is imparted into each and every branch and which allows the branches to bear fruit.

“If anyone does not abide in Me, he shall be cast outside as the branch and wither; and they shall gather them up and cast them into the fire, and they shall burn .” John 15:6
As Paul said, a true believer has Jesus inside themselves as the mystery of godliness is Christ in us, our only hope of glory.
 
What you do not believe in this life you will in the life here after===ocuh we that be to late
 
I dont understand it my self, I think the we was to be a will…What you do not believe now you may believe in the next life.
I have NO glasses and I do not spell will so hope it makes some sense if not just go on,until we meet again I,ll just say good bye and have a great day and night,and may Our Lord bless you and your
 
Matthew 26:27-29

Mark 14:23-25

These contradict Luke, and I can find no mention of the bread and wine used at the passover in John…
Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you,
Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, and they all drank from it.
In neither of these scriptures does it say that Jesus drank first. What it says is that He gave it to the apostles to drink. When Jesus said He would not drink of the fruit of the vine does not indicate the blood which He just had given the apostles. It was not metaphor which Jesus plainly shows in John 6 not just a few selected versus but the whole of John 6. If it were a metaphor, then your wouldn’t have the disciples leaving Him. He didn’t stop them.
Mt 12:47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.”
Mt 12:48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?”
Mt 12:49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "Here are My mother and My brothers!
-When Jesus said ‘who is’ He used the Greek word ‘esti’. So, if it was really was the Blood and Body of Jesus then in these verses Jesus said Mary wasn’t His mother unless Jesus used metaphors.
I don’t know how you reached this conclusion. Jesus did use metaphors but not everything was. Your statement above is confusing. I don’t see the connection at all. I don’t see anyone here leaving Him because the teaching was to hard.
 
When Jesus instituted Communion at the Last Supper, did some of His Blood and part of His Body leave Him and enter the cup and the bread? If so, not all of Him suffered the next day.?.?
When communion is received, it is the entire Body Blood Soul and Divinity of Jesus. It is a miracle that cannot be understood. We know it is true because Jesus said it was. Explain how Jesus went through the crowd and escaped. How He went through doors. As long as the accidents of the Body and Blood are there (about 15 minutes) Jesus is with us. What a wonderful gift He has given us. It must be painful to Him when it is rejected.
Do you also want to leave?
is His question. What will you answer?
 
But surely you must realize that we do this b/c we believe that the CC has added error to the truth and our disagreement results from our belief that we are searching for truth.

First b/c God has given those non-Catholics the Holy Spirit too. Second, the Catholic claim of validity is like any other church’s claim to validity in that it is dependent on the particular interpretation of scripture (and maybe tradition) by the church claiming the validity.

Well I have seen Catholics make your argument (and others) but I can’t help wondering why, on the two occasions that the disciples argued over who would be the greatest, Jesus never specified Peter…if, as you say, he was never at a loss for words. And why were the disciples even having this argument if they all knew that Peter was supreme?

Take care
Dear Radical,

Why can’t you just stay on the topic. To say that all churches have been given the same thing that Peter was is just a blaten lie. You are not answering anything, you are only bringing up rhetoric which proves to me that you have no valid response.

As I mentioned earlier, you are only trying to nullify the Catholic Church’s authority. And, whether you like this response or not, you are also saying that Jesus made a big mistake handing the keys to Heaven to such a dingbat as Kephas.

Answer this question straight*. *Where else does the authority issue come up that makes you believe that the Church that Christ set up has gone awry and so now it’s up to others to fix the problem? Who cares about an argument. People argue all the time.

Please answer the question as direct as you can without saying that Jesus was incorrect when He permitted Peter and the bunch to grow His Church. PLEASE!

Take care of yourself too

jpaul1953
 
No doubt I have forgotten some…as I said, there are a number. I also didn’t bother to list all those that I could recall…but what I didn’t forget and what I didn’t neglect to list is the one which sets out an express promise that Peter would be supreme (b/c it doesn’t exist). IMHO that promise must be read into the text by those who want to rely upon it.
I’m sorry, but you never responded to my post (#100). I would like to know why you believe that because Christ settled disputes among his disciples, that this meant he didn’t choose one to be his successor. None of the passages you posted imply that Christ would not still have chosen a successor among them. IMHO, Christ merely was reiterating his message to all of us that we are servants of the Lord, not ourselves.

Now, you’ve stated your position is that if Christ did not choose who was “the greatest” among them, then he must not have chosen a successor. That is not the case because his successor clearly would NOT have been “the greatest” among them when he did not see himself in that light and did not impart the idea that one of them was greater than the other.

What is your response?
 
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